#199 The Secret Sauce to Business Transformation: AI and No-Code Tools With Kamran Rahman

0:00:03 - Mehmet
Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO show with Mehmet Today. I'm very pleased to be joined live from Canada. Come run, come run. Thank you very much for being on the show today. Can you please introduce yourself and tell us what you do? 

0:00:17 - Kamran
Yeah, absolutely Well. Thank you very much for having me today, mehmet. My name is Kamran, I'm from Montreal, canada, and I run a sort of tech consulting. We're a small consulting company that focuses on AI and workflow automation. I would say we're more specialized working with startups and SaaS companies and we're kind of slowly expanding towards marketing agencies, creative agencies, branding agencies. But our bread and butter is mainly small tech startups and mid-sized SaaS companies, and I guess the reason also being it's because I come from that background. 

0:00:55 - Mehmet
Okay, so what brought you into tech world, Kamran? 

0:01:00 - Kamran
Yeah, absolutely so. One of the main reasons, I would say, is just because I come from the opposite of what the tech world is. I originally used to be a mortgage broker, so I was in financial services and we were very yeah, we were very antiquity, we were very old school when it came to technology. But I was the opposite. I was the only one looking for different technology, different CRMs, different tools to make my business better Right, but a lot of people weren't, which was really funny, because technology just makes things easier for any business Like nobody can deny that, but still there are so many businesses out there that just don't adopt it. 

So, kind of looking into different SaaS companies, saas tools, I ended up actually leaving the mortgage business altogether and I joined an enterprise software company that kind of deals with big companies all over the world in their supply chain, risk management side of things. So that's kind of where I started learning about software and SaaS in general. And because I have that sales background, that's kind of like where I ended up learning a little bit more about the different types of companies out there. And then from there I moved on to another startup, worked for a big billion dollar, big tech company, and now I decided to kind of go out on my own and help other businesses find different technology, different tools and how to best utilize them. 

0:02:26 - Mehmet
That's a great story, actually, and a little bit yeah. Now, by the way, I'm seeing a lot of more people converging from other fields and actually especially in the field you are in to today. Come on, I think you have an edge, and the reason you have an edge because you've been on the other side of the desk, so you understand the problem, you understand how the customer thinks, so this is a blessing. I would say. Now let's start to talk like step by step. So when people mix up things sometimes and when, especially, we talk about digital transformation, so in your opinion, with your experience, what do you think are the key steps for businesses that they should take to optimize their operations? If I come to you, how do you approach, for example, a new project? 

0:03:26 - Kamran
Yeah, absolutely so. Obviously, digital transformation is a is a huge buzzword these days, and I would say mine is a little bit different, because I work with companies that are already A part of the tech world. Right, they already understand the value of technology, the value of software, ai as well. And and actually one thing I want to mention before I answer that question is also my business partner. He's actually from One of the big consulting firms, pwc, and he specializes in Digital transformation. So we kind of work together when it comes to that. 

So one of the one of the things that we kind of like to make sure before we even hop on a project is making sure that the companies Understand their own processes. Right, if you don't understand how your business is running, where, where, what you need to do to go from point a to point B, to point C and eventually to point Z, there's no point for us to kind of have a conversation from the beginning, because you don't even know what the issue might be. So I guess the first step for us is always identifying their processes, understanding how their workflow goes from, whether it's the sales department, whether it's the marketing department. So once we really understand how the business itself works and what steps they take to get to a certain result. Then from there, we know where we can implement maybe an automation tool, maybe a, a project management tool or just AI in general, especially type TPT. 

We found multiple use cases for different departments. It doesn't need to be just a Client facing AI tool, it can be internal as well, right? So I guess the first step is fully understanding their business and making sure that they have the right processes. If they don't have the right operations and the right processes, then it's just a mess from the beginning. It's all. It's a. It's a whole different challenge, right? So I would say that's the first thing that we do. 

0:05:22 - Mehmet
That's, that's great and spot on, like as I was discussing with you before, we record that we both come from the same background and but I would like to do always, because sometimes you know, you know they say we have a mandate from you know the company, that we need to do X or we have a mandate To start this project. So what I would like to ask always okay, you have this mandate, but why right? So why, why you want to do this? What's your end goal Like? Is it like to to have some tangible results from revenue perspective? Is it like to reduce, you know, some risks? 

And always you need to tie things to a number and not just adopt technology for the sake of technology. Right, come run. So this is what brings me to the next one, because I know you have also the experience with robotic process automation, rpa and AI. So, on a very high level again, for someone who listening to us or watching, maybe later, how are RPA and AI changing the landscape of business operations? Can you, for example, say some real-world examples on how these technologies have made significant impact? 

0:06:40 - Kamran
Yeah, absolutely so. One perfect example that I was because I come from the sales background is Sales teams in general, right? So one thing, especially in like startups and SaaS companies, is that, yes, they have a lot of technical people available, but they're so busy building their own products they don't have time to kind of take care of internal problems. They don't have time to take care of internal situations that might make the business better, right. So, for example, a sales team. One great thing that we're able to do is we can implement them. Something similar like let's, let's use a make. It's one of the tools that I like to use it. It's kind of over to Zapier, if you. 

Yeah, yeah, so you understand what it is. It's very similar to Zapier, but I would say it's a lot more powerful and it's way more visual, right? Like me, as a salesperson, I could tell you this. I'm not a technical person. Like I don't understand the deeper meanings of Technology, like if we were to go into details on what an API or actually, I understand an API but like, how do web hooks work? How do HTTP requests work? Obviously, I don't have that full understanding at that time. 

Now I learned it and understand it, but most sales people don't, right? So it's hard for them to go to IT or go to the engineering department to ask them to help them Integrate Salesforce with one of their other favorite prospecting tools. Right? So if we implement make for them, they're able to do it on their own without always needing to reach out to IT. So one of the benefits there is that they're not losing out on time, right? If they were to do this internally, with custom dev teams to do it all on their own, it would take at least three months at the bare minimum, even if they are a tech company with a lot of resources, right? So by using make, they're able to do it within a few days, a week or two max, and they don't need to wait for IT, they could make it work the exact way they want it to work. Now, the second thing is, if we were to add AI into the mix, which is something that I set up recently For a sales team, is that it's important, when you get a new lead, to reach out to them Within a few minutes. 

If you can right, that's when they're really hot. If you do it a couple of hours later, you you almost lost that, that lead by at least 60% of even being able to reach out to them, right? So we did An implementation where we connect to chat GPT with their CRM system and their email system. So, as soon as the lead comes in, based on what they're asking, chat GPT will send a reply within a few minutes and sometimes, if it's a simple request based on the information that we provided chat GPT With their internal docs, it's able to answer right away as well. It doesn't need to tell them hey, a human will get back to you in 24 hours. So by doing that, we've added more revenue to their to their company as well, right? And this Took a couple of weeks. So I guess yeah, sorry, just going back to the answer so that's pretty much one way that we can use it in a very long, long way of saying things. 

0:09:35 - Mehmet
Yeah, absolutely, and also myself. You know, as I was explaining to you and I find a lot of use cases, and Actually we also with my business partner a couple of weeks back. So what we did is like we came up with a virtual scenario and then we showed the power of implementing such solutions. So, whereas we took a you know fictionary restaurant that they are still using Pancel and paper to take feedback and surveys, and then we showed, like, how you can Digitize this. Not only that, we added AI to the mix to just show, like, if you, if you make it into a electronic form, like an online form format, you can even tell let AI Do sensitive analysis, because I'm here, for example. This is for the audience. People think that AI is just chat. It's not just chat. It can do much more than this, right? Yes, so, yes, so we and, by the way, open AI can do this. People know strategy PT the most, or cloud. 

Now be still sat available here in Dubai, but I know in the US, canada and the UK's are everywhere, but anyway. So I Showed case that it can do sentiment analysis and the use case I gave if someone leaves you a three star on the review because three star, what is the three star? Is it good or bad? You know? 

0:11:02 - Kamran
And it's the way it's neutral. 

0:11:05 - Mehmet
But the way you can have some idea is if the guy left, you know, in the command, something there so you can ask AI to analyze this. And then, okay, if let's say someone wrote, the wood was miserable or your staff were very rude, so you know, and what we did is like we made open AI, you know, go and Analyze this and then send you know if it's something bad. If it's something good, we said don't do anything, like some manager will come and see the report at the end of the day, but if it's something bad, immediately send an email, maybe to a manager or someone who's in charge. So, guys like you need to be into this. Come to out, come run, come to me. We can show you how you can, you know, mix the things upside down outside. Now I Know that you, you your fan, like myself, in no code platform. So, yes, how do you think you know these no code platforms are enabling business to be more agile, and which one is your favorite tool? I would ask you this as well. 

0:12:14 - Kamran
Yeah. So I guess, to answer the first question, no code tools are extremely powerful these days. Like I have seen, even devs People that already have coding backgrounds take advantage of no code tools, just because it's faster, right. You don't need to start everything from scratch, it just makes things much faster and it's usually cheaper, right. Compared to hiring a dev at $100 an hour, you can buy the software at a couple hundred dollars a month and it'll do most of what you would need it to do if you find the right software right. So it's both cost-effective and it's extremely fast. 

I have a lot of favorite no code tools I. I have a list, but if I were to pick my, I guess I'll give you my top three. Let's let's go with that. Just because I have so many, yeah, I guess my first one would be mate. Honestly, I find it so powerful. It's so useful being able to integrate different applications together. It just makes your job so much easier, because there's this new problem a lot of employees have these days is that they have to Juggle so many different software applications to do one simple thing. So this makes it easier. 

The second one that I would kind of I love talking about, and it's a little bit of a newer Soft no code tool, but it's like it's growing extremely fast here in North America. It's called smart suite. It's very similar to air table. I'm sure you've heard of air table Most likely both, yeah, so it's very similar to it, but they're a lot more powerful in terms of not just being a database but also as a project management software as well, so it can kind of replace two softwares at the same time. It can work like air table, where it's a database. You can. You can place Excel with what's smart suite and you can use it to project manage, which would replace anything from Trello, asana. You name it Monday calm. So that would be my second top favorite. 

And the third one is actually a no code AI tool and, unlike you just mentioned, ai isn't just a chatbot. And this is my third one because it's it's completely different. It's called accio, a KK IO AI. So what they do is they help. They have multiple ways of helping you, but one of the main ways that I use it is helping sales teams use AI to forecast the revenue or to Report on sales metrics. All you have to do is literally plug in the data from hub spot, or if you're using pipe drive, if you're using some other CRM, you just plug it in and the AI will do all the work to find out the approximate Revenue by the end of quarter, by the end of the year, or build out the sales report without you needing to do anything, and for sales leaders that takes a lot of time usually. So this is another super powerful tool. 

0:14:59 - Mehmet
That's amazing to know. So smart suite. What was the other one? Come on, do I I kill? Okay, so we're gonna put all the links later if someone wants to. 

Yeah, so for me, honestly, yeah, make is amazing, and air table, because I'm more familiar to it if I want to, but. And softer. So softer is one of my favorite ones as well, and you know, I've worked with a couple of people and we were able to really do an MVP, full Fledge MVP, for multiple ideas, of course, like anything deep tech not, of course, no, go to sleep, not the best but anything which is more like a, let's say, marketplace directory, crm, customized CRM kind of solutions. So, yeah, you can get it in no time, I'll tell you. And the beauty of the technology now is like integration is much easier than before. Still, but you would need someone to put the secret sauce, like what Camron does or what I do. So when it comes, yeah, so if you want something you know like more sophisticated when it comes to automation, so here, where you would need something, as Camron was explaining APIs, or you know web hooks and all these things, so yeah, like here, where it's not hard, but I mean you would need some expertise to help you and but still it's much cheaper than you know. 

As you were mentioning and I repeat this on the show, guys, if you have idea and you want to validate it, don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on MVPs Today. You know like either. If you want to go, do it yourself, you can, but you know you can reach to a lot of people, same like Camron or myself where you know you can develop it in like. I will not tell you how much, of course, but I mean you don't have to pay all this money and the beauty is like you can pivot much faster. So yeah, now, camron, you talked about you know increasing and boosting productivity. Right, like could. Can you like a little bit discuss you know the strategies and tools that make this possible? I know, like we discussed, you know make and this, but I mean when we say like we help them in productivity. So let's again take a scenario. So where, for example, the productivity increased up to 50%, what do we mean? What we do? 

0:17:45 - Kamran
Yeah, absolutely so. The one thing I always like to do is understand how much time it's taking them, what it's costing them and how they're doing it currently with their current processes and system, compared to after, later on. Once we do the switch, once we kind of go through implementing new technology and revamping their whole processes, it gives us a good idea of what the difference is in terms of productivity gain, right? So, like you just said, if it goes up 50%, the amount that we can save a company is exponential. So a quick example here would be I'll use a salesperson as an example again, it's just my specialization. 

Let's say you have a salesperson. They make on average $100,000 a year, right. If we include maybe a base salary plus commissions, that's their average salary. Now, if they're spending an hour a day to do data entry right, they have to manually put in the leads information, the notes about the deal, things like that, and it's taking up an hour of their day. If we're able to reduce that by 50%, the amount that we can save them is at the bare minimum, half of their own salary right. Now they're able to produce more and we've saved them more time, resulting in more revenue. 

So I guess, if I were to kind of use just abstract numbers, that would be the best way to explain it is that, once we understand their current processes and systems, we find ways of using technology to make it faster, better and then, based off of the numbers that they're currently using, with their salary, their timing, everything like that, we know exactly how much we're going to save them and how much more they'll make. If we're targeting sales and marketing departments right, like I just said, with the salesperson's example, because data entry takes up so much time for a salesperson and that time can be used to prospect, that time can be used to close more deals. Right, that's the potential revenue that they're losing and the amount of time that they're wasting in terms of their hourly wage, which would be around $50 an hour. So, yeah, that's how I pretty much answered that question. 

0:19:55 - Mehmet
Yeah, sure I answered the question. Yeah, you did come run, but where do you see sometimes there are mistakes that companies do when they try to implement automation and how it can be avoided? 

0:20:07 - Kamran
Yeah. So the biggest thing I would say is change management. And when you have especially me, what I work with, generally mid-sized companies, you have a lot of employees with different backgrounds. Some might not be comfortable with technology, some might be very comfortable with technology, but they like their current tools. So the biggest success that I've seen, the best way to make sure that the implementation goes well is having a proper change management strategy. And just to give a quick idea of what change management is, it's making sure that the upper level executives make the employees, middle managers and lower level employees fully understand the reasoning behind the new technology, the impact with the new technology and how it'll make their lives easier. Executives know that for them, in the end, it's going to be their bottom line. It's going to be either reducing costs or increasing revenue if we're going to implement new technology in most cases. 

But the regular employee who's going to use it every day doesn't really care, like if we make $50,000 more or if we save $100,000 per year, right, they don't care about that. They care about their paycheck and their day-to-day lives. So change management is making sure that they understand the reasoning behind why it's important for them to use it and how it'll make their jobs easier and better. So I would say that's the main thing. Between a bad implementation and a good implementation. It's generally just adoption of the new technology, right. Making sure that they're comfortable and they understand the value with it for every level of employees. 

0:21:44 - Mehmet
Yeah, 100%. Change management is something very important, and this is where you need also a couple of advice from my side. And also, you need to buy in from everyone. Yes, because you are changing. 

By the way, even if you are simplifying things, humans, usually they are resistant to changes. They don't like to change because different reasons. So you can read about it. There are a lot of books that extend. But, on a high level, us, as human beings, we resist changes because of fear, we are afraid of the change, and this is something in the brain. So the way to do it is to get the buy-in from everyone. So the leadership, of course, will have the buy-in, and then the managers, and then the people who are going to interact on daily basis. And then you need to show them as you mentioned, cameroon as well like you need to show them the benefits and why it's for your better I would say how you call it Like it's for your best outcome. I mean for your best interest. Yeah, exactly, it's for your best interest to adopt this, because your life will become simpler. 

And, by the way, guys, here I want to touch on something, if you allow me Cameroon, guys, these automations will not replace you. You still need we still need humans to do the job in a way, but you will be using more of your brain than using your fingers doing data entry, for example. And now it's kind of a cliche, I know, but AI will not change. It will just change. You need to be able to use the AI to be able to continue your job. So AI will not replace you in the job, but it will replace who doesn't use AI in their job. So this is what everyone is saying. Now, to touch base on this part, I you know when I was preparing and I went over your profile, so you mentioned something that you know grow smarter and not just bigger. So how you know? Can you explain this philosophy? 

0:24:19 - Kamran
Yeah, absolutely so. Grow smarter, not just bigger. So what I mean by that is, when a company is looking to scale, at a certain point it becomes hard to justify the increase in revenue with hiring a new employee. Right, because if you're increasing revenue by, let's say, $100,000 a year, but then your new employees costing you $50,000 to $60,000 a year, you're losing out on a lot of money every year because now you have to hire a new employee to help you grow the business. Right, that's growing bigger. That's the old school way of doing things, where, if you believe you need to always hire somebody to help you grow the business, nowadays you can get away with without having to hire a huge team by just using the right tools and AI with a proper process in place. Right, by doing so. To give you an example if an implementation of new software and AI costs you a one-time fee of $30,000, that means it's able to one replace a full-time employee that would have cost you $50,000 a year with a one-time fee, and now you're able to continue growing without adding more payroll costs to your business, right? So this is in my definition. That's growing smarter, not just bigger. Right? It's finding ways to grow a lean business without the additional expenses that come with scaling of business right. 

And that's where I find the biggest power within AI and technology is it's being able to do that right. Back then you wouldn't be able to do this If you wanted to do to give you an example, if you wanted to do data analytics, you needed to hire data scientists. Sorry, but now, like the example, like ABB4, accio is able to do that right. So you can get away from not hiring that $100,000 employee by implementing the software and teaching it to somebody to use it right. So this is where I see the biggest benefit. Like you just mentioned, it's not AI and technology isn't here to replace employees that are already kind of working for the business, because if they adopt to it, they can 10x their productivity. They're going to be even more valuable to the company, but for companies that are still in that growing phase, that don't want to hire, this is the best way to scale your business without rising your payroll costs. So that's pretty much what I meant with that quote. 

0:26:45 - Mehmet
Yeah, agreed with you, Camron, on this point. Now, what are the trends that you are seeing Like? What do you expect to see from automation? Where we might be heading in the very near future, I would say. 

0:26:57 - Kamran
Yeah, I mean, there was recently a study brought up by McKinsey and Company, the huge consulting company, about AI being able I think it was by 2030, they say that at least 30 to 35% of companies will have fully implemented AI within their business. So that's a huge amount right by 2030, that's not even 10 years away from now where 30% of businesses worldwide will have implemented AI. So that shows that there's a huge trend for the possibility and practical use cases of AI. Right, that's one of the trends that I'm seeing now for bigger businesses and I mean like enterprise companies. Right, one of the big tech companies I used to work for billion dollar company a lot of people know it is that they've already implemented AI within their own business and with their product. So that's showing the growth right there. 

Right, and it's only been a few months that the technology is out. And if I were to go to not just AI but also NoQuote Tools, that's also becoming a huge thing because it's allowing for freelancers to come up with new ways of offering services. It's allowing agencies to build additional revenue streams. So if I were to look at the trend based off of the information, right there, you're seeing a lot more people adopting to it. You're seeing a lot more use cases coming out of it, more practical use cases. So that's my general understanding of the trend. Right now, I would say yeah, that's great. 

0:28:32 - Mehmet
Kabran. What are your advice for fellow entrepreneurs and startup founders? What do you think about it? 

0:28:44 - Kamran
I mean there's so many. But I guess the one thing I would say is just don't overanalyze and just go for it. When it came to my business, for example, ai was brand new. The whole automation space was growing Before it even became a big thing. I just jumped on it, I didn't think twice and I started just learning and applying, learning and executing, learning and executing. So my advice would be don't overthink it and always, always, don't think of finding a business idea. Think of finding a problem to solve. This is where my idea came from the company I used to work with. We were a $500 million company with 5,000 employees and my management directors were still using Excel for the smallest things and I'm like this is taking so much time. So that's where my idea came from, because I saw that it was a problem. So don't chase ideas, chase problems. I guess that was my two advice. 

0:29:43 - Mehmet
As call to action. Guys, if you are in North America and still using Excel and you're still doing pen and paper, reach out to Camran. If you are living here in Dubai or in the Middle East, reach out to me Exactly. And I have a final question Is there anything, camran, that you wished I, we have asked you and how you answered it um, I guess I mean you really asked a lot of great questions. 

0:30:11 - Kamran
If I were to think of one, I guess um, where do you see the um? I guess more practical use cases of AI, right, like like we talked about AI in general, but, um, I guess a lot of people don't don't know where to apply it right, a lot of people don't know how it can be applied, right, people, just like you mentioned, just think it's a chatbot. So I guess more practical applications of AI would be interesting to talk about, especially for businesses, but even for regular people. I guess that's one question that would be something that we can tie really deep into, really deep into. 

0:30:47 - Mehmet
Yeah, just on a high level. If you want to discuss this, that's fine. That's why. 

0:30:50 - Kamran
I asked this question. 

No, it's a great one, um, I guess. Yeah, I obviously would depend on the size of your business, but the top three ways that I would look at applying it is if you were to use the chat gpt chatbot. Um, the two ways to use it is obviously, you can implement it on your website to to answer customer service inquiries. You can have it understand all of your, your internal knowledge base and it'll be able to accurately answer based off of just that information. So it doesn't give out anything wrong Internally. It's extremely useful as well, right, um? 

If I were to use my previous Industry as an example mortgage brokering or financial services you need to know a lot of different rules and regulations and things like that. If you have a chatbot within your company, you're able to put in all of the different regulations and rules and just use the chatbot to quickly ask it a question like hey, am I allowed to create a mortgage for this person who doesn't have a job? Um, and it'll give you different advice based off of what you are, the business knows and what the regulations are. So I think that would make it so much easier and faster for employees to search Um information. 

And the third use case is as, like I mentioned, using something like accio, where it's able to do data analysis for you, you don't need to pay for data scientists and things like that, at least not yet If you're if you're still a small company, where you can get away with Understanding how to do sales forecasting, understanding the data that you have within your business and how you can use it to make your business grow right, that's. Another very practical application of ai is that it's able to go through data so fast, analyze it and give you information that you need to know based off of that data. Right, a lot of people see that information raw data and they don't understand how to use it. Well, this is the best way to use it without paying a hundred thousand dollar employee. 

0:32:38 - Mehmet
Yeah, yeah and uh, I'm, you know, on the point that you mentioned about data analysis, um, I'm waiting for I think they're gonna bring it soon. So if, if open ai, they bring the api Access to their code interpreter. Code interpreter yeah, oh, my god, like I think this is will be. This will be the game changer there, because I Um again, maybe I mentioned before, but if someone is tuning in the for the first time. So what I did is just I downloaded some open data which is available on the, what's called here in Dubai, the land department, which shows you the number of transactions in real estate that happened and you can specify, you know, um the period. 

So, just to make the data small, I said last two weeks, and then I downloaded the data in csv format, I gave it to open ai, a code interpreter, and then I said act as a data scientist, and you know, clean the data, show me the trends and tell me what I can extract from this data and I'm not a data scientist, by the way. So, yeah, and and then it started to work. It blew my mind because not, you know, first it it was able to Even correct itself. So, because there was one of the fields. It had the parenthesis, so it didn't understand first, and then it figured out that this is the currency. Um, because the currency here is not a symbol, it's a ed. 

0:34:07 - Kamran
So it's a ed yeah. 

0:34:08 - Mehmet
Yeah, so. So it understood that this is the currency. And then he said, okay, I'm gonna continue now. And then it started to generate the graph, of course, because I took a course long back in the day. So I understood you know what. What was happening? 

So they were using python actually to to do all the libraries that usually data scientists they do, and then they use the graph. You know libraries of python, they use panda, they use numpy, they use all this. And then, oops, I have a full report. And then they said, can you do a summary? I want to take it to To an expert in real estate and show me the trends. And it showed me, like you know what is trending, which areas are trending. It blew my mind. And then, you know, I remember I took a course it was on on udimi and I think it was priced at that time for, like maybe I think, made 200 dollars or something like this to how to become a data scientist. And they said, oh my god, like you know, now I don't need this, I have someone you know, yeah, that's great, great, great. 

Come on where people can find more about you. 

0:35:12 - Kamran
Yeah, absolutely. I would say more active on linkedin and twitter Um. My linkedin is just Kamran K a m r a n. Dash Rahman r a h m a n, and on twitter is the same thing, Kamran x Rahman Um. I post a lot of content there. I'm always giving different strategies of using a I how to how to apply it within your business without maybe needing to. Hardly. I don't have any issue with that. I love to help businesses as well, um, but yeah, you can mostly find me on linkedin and twitter. 

0:35:42 - Mehmet
Sure, I will put the links there, 100 percent. 

Well, Kamran, thank you very much for being on the cto show today. Uh, I really enjoyed the discussion. It was so much fun. I hope that, uh, a lot of startups and SMEs, where you know some of the decision makers, were listening or watching us today. So, guys, really you need to leverage this technology. It's not only because it's cool, because, um, the results are Tangible very fast, I can tell you, yes, and again, Kamran, like a lot of good discussions, change management, the trends and all this, they were very good ones. 

Um, and, as usual, this is how I end my episodes guys, I am always looking for your feedback. If you have any question to me or to Kamran, you can just send it to me and I would pass it to him. And if you have feedback on the show in general, also, please pass it to me. And if you are interested to be a guest, like Kamran was a guest today with me, also, reach out doesn't matter. Like you can be any place in the world. Um, we shared the same passion with Kamran and this is why I said immediately yeah, let's, let's do it. So we recorded this episode for you. 

Um, yeah, and if you have anything you are specialized in, maybe you are into a um ideation phase and you want to, you know, share this idea with the world. You want some feedback, like this platform or this podcast is for all entrepreneurs or startup founders. Uh, and also, you see, we bring sometimes also subject matter experts, not only in tech. We bring someone in sales, we bring people in marketing, even we bring some some people who are expert in uh different topics like leadership and Mental health, and all this because we understand this is your holistic, human Uh approach for entrepreneurship and startups. So I hope you are enjoying and we will meet again next episode. Thank you very much. Bye, bye, thank you. 

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