#202 A Deep Dive into Decentralized Finance and Blockchain With Bruno Calabretta

0:00:01 - Mehmet
Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet. Today I'm very pleased to have with me joining live from Bali. Bruno Bruno, thank you very much for joining me. Can you please a little bit tell us about yourself and what you do? 

0:00:16 - Bruno
Okay, hello everyone, and thank you so much, Mehmet, for having me here in your show and sharing a little bit of what I'm doing with your community. So right now I'm based in Bali, Indonesia, and I'm the Hub Manager and Co-Founder for the ICP Hub Indonesia. Icp is a Layer 1 Blockchain Internet Computer Protocol and we call it with the first three letters of the name and our goal here in Indonesia, especially in Bali, starting from Bali, our goal is to make our hub a platform for web-free education adoption, but also a platform where projects founders, new ideas, can come to us and ask for support for being incubated and accelerated and make them start to enjoy their journey on the IC ecosystem. 

0:01:06 - Mehmet
That's great, bruno, and maybe it would be a very traditional question, but I get curious to know what brought you to the field of blockchain and decentralized technology. 

0:01:20 - Bruno
Okay, this is a nice story. 

Okay, so my background I'm a biomedical engineer. I had a Bachelor's degree and a Master's degree in biomedical engineering, and before to start to work in the crypto blockchain space, I used to work as a technical manager, based in the USA, for pharmaceutical companies. I was taking care of all the biggest pharmaceutical in the world. I started traveling all over the world first, and then I moved to the US, where I was responsible for all pharmaceutical in North America, and what we were doing it was making a quality inspection of trucks, but at the same time, we were installing a software that was able to track and trace the trucks. So this means associating a unique code to every drug, but in this way, you can know from the moment it's made in the lab until you have it in your hand. And if you think this is a concept that is kind of similar to blockchain, because the only difference is that data, instead of being stored on the blockchain, they were stored on the server of the pharmaceutical company. So what brought me into this space? It was, essentially. 

I started in 2018 to do my first crypto investment by buying Bitcoin, and I'm a long-term holder, so I never sold my Bitcoin, even during the old time I off a couple of years ago, so I still owe the Bitcoin I bought in 2018. 

And from there, you know, the more you dig deep into something, the more you want to know. And for me, you know, I started to leverage my technical experience to understand more about this space from a technical point of view, and I was fascinated about it for the main problems that it can solve, starting from lack of trust, bringing balance into our world, you know, providing opportunity to all those people that didn't have it until now. And because of this, you know, while I was in this corporate job, at some point I realized that I was not growing anymore because I had reached the maximum level of what I could learn. So because of this, I was not happy anymore with my job. And you know, when you live in the US, you are always very much pushed by this American dream of betting on yourself. Let's not talk about the old American dream, let's talk about the new idea of American dream. It is a little bit different. So let's say that I decided to bet everything on myself. 

I quit everything, I moved to Bali and I started to be fully immersed into this world. So I started to give consultancy, first to individuals and companies, to show my expertise. I started to be invited to events, to be like a public speaker at conferences. I organized also my first crypto event last year. That was the Bali Crypto Week. We had more than 1,200 people that attended the events and was amazing and from there you know, it was keep growing. I will tell you later about other projects that have been involved too, that made, I think, a huge difference in the space at the moment. 

0:04:26 - Mehmet
Wow, bruno, like I can see you know the energy. It's coming out all the way from Bali to be here in Dubai. It seems like you are very passionate about it. So, yeah, see, like when we talk and you know, I was recording an episode the other day and you know it's the same thing that comes. So when people think about blockchain, right, so they think about crypto currency. Now I will ask you about crypto currency. But you mentioned a very nice use case. You know which can be applied for pharmaceuticals. You know biomedical engineering, but if we want today to explain it to someone in a more simple way, you know, yeah, yeah, I got you. 

0:05:12 - Bruno
I got you. I know this is something that you know is required most of the time, especially when you speak with people that have no idea about what is the space. But they heard the word blockchain because of the hype that there is behind it. You know, because of the quick money that a lot of people made out of this space. 

So this is one of the main reasons why there is all this hype, because everybody wants to become a millionaire overnight. But let's say that moment has finished, guys. So you can still make money, but you got to make money in the smart way. But if I want to give a simple definition like, this is a definition that I think even a five years old can understand. So, basically, what is a blockchain? The main definition of a blockchain is that it's a ledger, but people will ask you about what is this ledger? 

So let's imagine just that this blockchain is like you having a huge notebook where you can write every kind of information you want inside it, but when you write this information, you write them with like an in the level of a permanent marker, to make sure that the information cannot be tampered and this information are public, accessible to everyone. Like sometimes, there is an example that I make. Like, let's imagine that we are playing to a game Okay, it's me, you, and imagine other 20, 30 people and we have one rule that every time before each one of us has to do a step, what is happening is that we need to check the result that has been recorded until that moment on the board and we are each one of us owning, for example, a mobile phone where we can always take a screenshot of this board. So what is happening is that every time before to do the next move, what each one of us has to do is to verify in the previous picture that the information is still the same, that nobody has tampered with them, nobody has changed this information. So what is happening is that, for example, after a bid that we are playing, maybe there is a shady actor, okay, someone that wants to make something, illicit something that is not right and when everybody is distracted, is going on this board and is modifying, for example, his value or is taking out some point from somebody else. So what is happening is that now is the time to play and each one of us has still the previous picture of the result on the board. So we are checking this information and we notice that some values are different and I get the same picture. You have the same picture and other 19 people have the same picture. So we can all say look, something went wrong, somebody changed this information, so we can null this information and make sure that that fake result is not uploaded on the board. 

And here we have the main principle of a blockchain, so a network that is working peer to peer. So this means that all the people involved in the network, all the players, they all have the same value. So one, it's equal one, it's not that my response it's better than the response of somebody else. And then there is another important thing the consensus protocol. So this means that until it's reached a consensus by all the people involved in the network, we cannot move forward and approve all the other information that has been placed inside. So, basically, blockchain is just a huge notebook where you can write every kind of information you want. Nobody can tamper them, nobody can alter this information, can delete them, but they're public for everybody to see. 

Now, from this explanation, you can understand that, basically, blockchain can be applied to everything from healthcare to real estate, to storing data like certificates about your school degree, bachelor degree, master degree, information about your identity for government use for financial transaction. 

So you just name the environment where you want to apply it and you can find like a solution, like you can find with blockchain, a solution to a problem that is existing, because the main reason why blockchain was created was to bring back trust to the people. Because right now, what is our main issue? We don't trust anything, we don't trust the neighbors, we don't trust the news, we don't trust the media, we don't trust the government, and every time, we always have to rely on a third party that is guaranteeing us that those information that they're giving us are real. But how do we know if this information are real? Now, thanks to blockchain, we can solve some of this problem, because with blockchain, we know that there is no more middleman. Now there is just software code that is in the middle and is making sure that once the information are there, they are there for good and nobody can change them. Nobody can alter them according to the results that they want to show. 

0:10:04 - Mehmet
Right, I think this is a very nice detailed explanation, yet simple, I would say, bruno. So, guys, as you've seen, it's not only about cryptocurrency, right? 

0:10:16 - Bruno
Absolutely. Cryptocurrency is just a consequence. This is what most people don't understand. 

0:10:23 - Mehmet
Yeah, so, but you know the, actually the concept of, maybe cryptocurrency. It was the best or the better way to explain things, because usually you know they were telling people you, I am a, you are B and a want to send money, to be, and usually you need a third party and someone can do there and then I can send you the money directly. So maybe this is why you know people tied it to the crypto currency and. But let's go one more step. You know in this decentralization, decentralized technology, and talk about something which everyone call it as a DeFi or decentralized finance. So let's let's dig more into the DeFi and try to explain it also as well. 

0:11:14 - Bruno
So I truly believe that DeFi, or decentralized finance, is gonna be the future. 

It's gonna play a very important role in our future economy and in the way that Transaction are made, but also in the way that money are being handled. 

Let me make an example to make you understand them, or to make better understand who is listening to us how DeFi it can really you know disrupt the world that is surrounding us. 

So let's make the example of the United States of America. So, if you want to borrow some money, what do you do? You go to a bank and you ask for money, but what is happening is that in the moment you are asking for this appointment at the bank and you sit on the chair and you are speaking, maybe, with the bank manager, that person is already judging you according to the color of your skin, according to your Religion, according to the way you've been dressed or the way you're dressed in the moment you are having this meeting and you can have some other bias, because maybe I don't know that morning he thought we fought with his wife, so he's not in the right mood to give a loan to people. And this is a problem because has been proved right now that there is like a huge discrimination in the way that money are being land and borrowed to people. 

Now let's imagine instead that we have a smart contract. So a smart contract, in simple terms, is just a digital agreement that is making sure that he's enforced by software, so an agreement that is made between two parts. In the moment that date is arriving, there is a software that is checking this information and is making sure that the terms are satisfied. Now let's imagine that in the moment you need to ask for a loan, instead of going through the bank manager or the assistant or the physical person that might have a bias in Giving a loan, this loan is given through smart contract. So what you are doing you're submitting the request for how much money you want to. You can specify what are the collateral that you're willing to give, but, at the same time, the decision for Understanding if you are a good or a bad payer is gonna be given according to your history. That is trapped on the blockchain. Like, for example, tracking information like if you pay your bills on time, how many things did you both or borrowed in the past and how much the credit did you use. Like collecting all the information you know that are making us a good payer if we want to use this this term, and then we are gonna have a contract that is checking this information and, according to your credit history, is going to release your loan. According to this, if you think this is a complete, completely revolutionized way on how to interact with the centralized finance. 

So the centralized finance it meaning that you don't have any more to go through a bank. That is a centralized environment. So centralized environment, it means that there is a central authority that is taking decision. Having at the centralized environment. It means that is completely decentralized. There is no central authority that is taking decision, but this decision are taken according to the smart contract or this, this digital agreement that are being put in place between two parties that are involved. And I think that this is gonna be like completely disruptive for our future, because it's really going to make a difference, especially they're not more than not wealthy people. 

0:14:44 - Mehmet
Yeah, so it gives power to the people and I think it provides more transparency To these kinds of transactions, whether that gets a loan or maybe any other kind of things that usually do with a bank. Now One thing, and let me be a little bit the devil advocate here. So don't you think, bruno, that some of the scams that happened in Cryptocurrency and even with some web 3 project have affected, you know, the acceptance of people of the technology and how we can get back people to get trust in in Defy and block? 

0:15:23 - Bruno
chain. I have the reply by bringing regulation. That's how we are gonna avoid that. There is gonna be all this scam, because the reason why there has been so much scam it's because this is the like the Wild West. There is no regulation, everybody can do what they want. But the reason why we need regulation is for Giving trust, first of all, to that institution and governments that can become the big player and that can push for the bigger adoption, because when the little fish is seeing the whale moving in a certain direction is gonna feel more, more trust. 

But at the same time, it's also, you know, for a preserving the status of all the little fish that are in the sea that maybe are approaching this space for Experimenting, or because they want to know what is happening and they are willing to believe whoever is promising them something. Because, at the end, you know these people who are making promise, they know that nothing can be done to them. Nobody can, you know, pursue them and say, hey, you did something wrong. This was not okay. So I think so I Agreeing what you are saying that unfortunately, all this can that happen. They brought a bad name into the space, but it's also true that the space, that all the blockchain and crypto space is working Very hard to make sure that this kind of scam don't happen and to make sure that people are Safe in the moment they are approaching this environment, but I think that what is really gonna make a difference is to bring more regulation board. I know that this might sound Not in line with what some of the let's say, the more Decentralized people will say, because they want an environment that is fully decentralized, but unfortunately, an environment that it's fully decentralized it means that is an environment that will not be safe, where you know the big fish that is coming and putting more money on the table. 

It's always gonna be, you know, the one that can do whatever they want, and we need to stop this kind of of behave, and the best way of doing it is by implementing some kind of regulation that will implement also some kind of punishment For these people. Of course, the punishment has to be according to what is the the mistake, the scum that has been formed like, and the guy that created the silk road the website for 10 years ago, 15 years ago, when it was is still in jail, and they will be in jail for life for just creating a website like this is a really bad punishment, honestly, considering that there are people like Sam from FTX that is just signing deal, you know, to don't reveal the name of the politicians that are involved and we don't know what is gonna end. So, from my point of view, the punishment must be, you know, also according to what Is the crime, of course, but we need regulation. This is the most important thing of all. We need to make sure that people feel safe and they feel safe because, at the end that, even if we believe in the Centralization, we believe in a world where there is no border, we still have, you know, each from each country we are coming from, there is always a government that, in some way or another, it's supposed to take care of us. It's supposed to take care of our interest. 

So this is what we want to see now. We want to see government more involved. We've seen the European Union, with the Mica, coming out and already put Throwing out a little bit of clarification on how to use it. We have on Kong where, for example, new rules are coming out every day and we can see that there is a more adoption for the crypto space. Unfortunately, we see country like the USA that are. You know, I've been, until now, the one, you know, bringing the flag of innovation in top, on top of everyone, and now, unfortunately, they are behaving like we are still in the 1930s, trying to apply rules that have been written in another century for a technology that cannot even use this kind of rules, because we are talking of two things that are completely different. It's like we want to make regulation for Tesla car, for fast car, and we use as a guideline the rules that were used for coaches with horses. It's the same thing that. It doesn't make any sense. 

0:19:44 - Mehmet
You need to apply rules for the technology or for the environment that you're trying to regulate 100%, and I will just add to the list that you gave from pro supportive perspective, the UAE, here where I am living. 

So, yeah, so all the laws are in place and actually some the smart contracts are being used in some use cases. And you know the way I look at it, bruno, is it's not you are putting a middleman, as you said. You are just adding actually transparency. So you know these companies that comes up with a Web3 or DeFi or any blockchain project, they have to be more transparent about what's happening over there and, you know, educate actually whoever is interested, he or she, in the technology. So, 100% with you on this and I believe if we do the regulation, we will see huge adoption, because I always and I discussed it a couple of times and I do a lot of research as well Like it has endless potential. You know, from supply chain to, you know, education, healthcare, you can apply it multiple places and you know, and actually people should feel safer if they use blockchain. 

I would say Now let's talk a little bit about you know your current, you know what's taking the majority of your time the ICP, the internet computer protocol. So tell me more. What are you doing there? And you know what's happening? 

0:21:22 - Bruno
So I'm really happy about what is happening right now and about this new position that I'm covering. I'm covering as co-founder and that manager for the ICP up Indonesia. I named it disruptives because I believe that we live in a space where we need to be disruptive compared to what is happening around us. But what is making really disruptive is not the single idea, but it's the collectivities. The community is the amount of ideas that are being put together and are working to make a change. So what is happening with this? Icp hubs? At the moment, we have already more than 15 absent open all over the world and by the end of the year, is going to be more than 20. So the role of this absent it is to spread the news and especially to promote adoption and bring new project to develop on the IC ecosystem. 

And the reason why we are opening all these absent it's because you know, we understood that crypto and blockchain is not a global product like it can be Microsoft or Tesla, that you just promote it and everybody use it in the same way all over the place. We understood that instead, blockchain and crypto are a global game. So this means that we need to approach it locally according to. What are the regulation, the traditions, the cultures, the existing community, what is the landscape, what is happening, what are the bottlenecks, what are the advantages and leverage, the connection, professionalism and skill of the manager, like me that are that can bring value to this blockchain. So one of the reasons why I like ICP so much, I was I've been working with this blockchain even on another project before to join them and I really believe that this blockchain it's completely revolutionary compared to many other blockchain in terms of decentralization, because it's fully on chain. It doesn't use any kind of clouding system. It's a green blockchain. It's one of the greatest blockchain. One transaction on ICP is four times cheaper than a Google research in terms of energy spending. Then the amazing thing is the fact that you can use the centralized applications without having the needs of having a wallet or owning cryptocurrency and in this way, being exposed to the trouble of crypto speculation, like it can be with many other blockchain where you have to pay a transaction fee every time that you are performing any kind of action. 

So because of this and many other reasons, I really believe that ICP can bring a drastic change into our society and in the way that also business and especially micro, small and medium size enterprise, can approach this new technology. 

So because of this, you know, what we are doing right now with this ICP hub is taking care of education, adoption and evangelism, and at the same time, our goal is to attract new project and early stage idea, but even start up to develop on the IC ecosystem. Of course, we provide different kind of supports. That it goes from community grants that have the purpose of support local communities and spread the news about the new technologies and especially about IC, and then we have also like more than 220 million that have been put aside for developer grants. So this means that these are funds that the blockchain want to be used by projects for developing on the IC ecosystem. So this means that these funds can also, with a lot of support and assistance, to make sure that your project can see its life on the IC ecosystem. And then I'm really proud of what we are doing because I think we can make a difference in terms of bringing body around the world, not only to local communities, but then, starting from the local communities, arriving to a global reach. 

0:25:27 - Mehmet
That's great to hear, bruno, and I, like you, know that. You know these startups are not tying to cryptocurrency necessarily, which is one of the things that, personally speaking, I get approached by a lot of startups. I see the value of the idea, but whenever I see that you know there's a coin associated to it, so I start to put my question marks. 

0:25:53 - Bruno
That's a very valuable thing. 

0:25:56 - Mehmet
I've been sceptic a little bit about. It's not because I don't trust the technology, but you know putting this and I think maybe you'll agree with me or no, but if a startup is talking too much about the value of the whatever cryptocurrency that they are developing, more than the technology itself, this is turns like back to the bright. 

0:26:19 - Bruno
Honestly, yes, honestly yes, because you know, in the moment you are introducing a token, you know that you are introducing a lot of variables that have those have been not told in the right way. They can really bring a lot of damage. That's why you know, I believe, that first you develop the project, you develop the idea, you show that you have a solution and maybe in a second stage, if it's really needed to have a coin or a token, then you can think about implementing one and offering it to your community. Like, look, with this point that you brought, if you want, I would like to introduce like one project that I've been working with it personally. I was the blockchain development manager and we developed it on the internet computer protocol, and this can be like a clear example of a project that is using blockchain and is not using any kind of coin or tokens. So the project is called Feder Italy, 100% Made in Italy, and this is a project that has been created for giving back trust to the consumers that every day, when they are buying Italian products and they are willing to spend more money to buy a product of quality, they don't have any certainty that the project that they are buying it's really what they say. It is. 

How many times it happens also to you, or to all the audience that is listening to us, that you go, for example, to buy some cheese or mozzarella, or you want to buy some salami, or you want to buy a piece of clothes or some furniture and it's written that it's Made in Italy. You see that there is a little black brand and you are willing to spend more money because you know this is a product that is coming from Italy. And then maybe you know, if you read good, where it was produced. You're buying a mozzarella that maybe is made in Ohio or is made in Australia and it's not Made in Italy. But that's just the name of Italy. And if you think this is a big problem, especially for Italy, because this problem is called Italian sounding and this is a problem also for our economy, because if you think, for example, the Parmigiano Reggiano, it's billing every year 3 billion dollars. The fake Parmigiano Reggiano that I think a lot of people know us, the Parmesan, it's billing 2.5 billion dollars a year. So this means that it's almost the same. This is a damage for the Italian reputation, for the Italian economy and especially it's a problem for all the micro, small and medium size enterprise that are investing so much money and time in producing a product of quality, and then they cannot compete because maybe they are selling the same product at a different price, and this would be like a real problem. 

If you think so, what is the solution that we found? So, federita is a federation that is hosting more than 7,000 companies and business professionals as part of their network, and what is happening with Federita is that we talk with the Chamber of Commerce around the world different embassies. We have 24 delegations, 24 states all over four continents. We are very well connected with the Italian Senate, the Italian Chamber of Deputies. We speak also with the European Parliament and the European Commission. We recently presented the project of the European Commission in Bruxelles, like one month ago, and before this we presented the project also at the Italian Senate in Rome, in Italy. So what is that we are doing? So imagine that there is a producer that tells, for example, some wine. Okay, he tells a bottle of wine and he wants that this product is 100% made in Italy and he wants to prove to his consumers that this product is really a product of quality. So what this guy is doing is coming to Federita. 

Federita is putting in place an audit. So this means that during this audit, we are performing first a document analysis from where the materials are arriving. What is the process? Because with the documentation that is coming from the transportation, you can know from where a product is coming. So you can say the origin of this product is coming from Italy or is coming from China, switzerland or wherever it is. So what is that? In the moment, we first check all the document analysis. We say, okay, everything is good. Now we can move to the next step. We send one of our auditor to go directly on site and when he will be on site he will perform a visual inspection with pictures and videos and again by analyzing personally every process for making a certain product. After and this is going to take the whole process documental and visual inspection. It's going to take around 30 to 60 days, according to the amount of products that this company is going to certify. 

Once the information has been confirmed that the product is 100% made in Italy, we are going to upload all this information into a smart contract on the internet computer protocol blockchain. A QR code is generated. This QR code is given to the producer that he can apply it on all the certified product and on all the marketing material. If you think, right now, when you see a QR code on whatever product, there are three scenarios that are happening. Nothing is going on. You are being provided with a number that you don't know what to do with it, or you are just being redirected to the website of the producer. 

Imagine instead that now you are being redirected to a decentralized website that is fully unchanged, so the user is not exposed anymore to the risk of a centralized website that is collecting information and everything they want you know to gain power from the people, and then what is happening is that this decentralized website is speaking directly with the smart contract, is retrieving the information from the certification, is showing this certification in a customized UI UX page, and then you have that from there. 

Not only you have the certificate with all the details of the certification, but we introduced also an experience page, and this experience page is a page where, for example, a producer can upload any kind of multimedia file from a picture, videos, brochure, pdf, doc, whatever kind of multimedia file completely unchanged. So nothing is on external server where somebody can unplug it and the information are lost. So everything is on their blockchain, and this is a new way also promoting what is happening. So what is happening is that me average consumer that wants to buy a product that is Italian and they see that it has the QR code of the 100% made in Italy certification. Now I'm sure that when I'm buying, this product is a product of quality, that all the information are on the blockchain and I don't need any wallet or token to check this information, like it will happen on any other blockchain. 

I'm just visualizing them and I'm not exposed to any kind of risk associated to cryptocurrency, and this is a great example for massive option, because this is the main way people want to use blockchain. Apologize, they want to use blockchain knowing that they are not using blockchain. It's like you know you got to take a plane. You don't go and knock at the cabin of the captain and say, hey, captain, please can I check the engine before we fly. No, you just go, sit, fall asleep and arrive to their destination. And the same thing has to be with blockchain. 

0:33:47 - Mehmet
People need to use it without knowing that they are using it wow, actually this is a very good scenario, I would say, bruno, and you know actually from this case yeah, you should. 

And it's a good use case to show on multiple things you know like. First, protecting economy. Second, actually you can even track this product. I mean, is it like from the origin where it came from or not? And now I'm even visualizing with you because maybe the the factory can put, for example, a video or a photo of you know, this cheese when it was actually maybe produced, right? So to add, like this, you know like, yeah, it's 100% made in Italy. 

0:34:35 - Bruno
Additional information, you know, that can make your storytelling becomes more real. 

0:34:40 - Mehmet
Exactly, and guys, have you seen it or you heard it? 

0:34:44 - Bruno
Like it doesn't have to put a coin into, maybe in the future they could like kind of donation, maybe, right, or this is something that has been discussed, but briefly, in terms that maybe in the future, you know, we can introduce some kind of coin or tokens, but that it can work similar to maybe a voucher where, for example, you know companies can reuse this coin for buying Another certification, because also the certification it lasts only one year and during this year we do also random control to make sure that they are not, you know, modifying anything from the moment that you know, certification. 

0:35:24 - Mehmet
That's good. That's good. Now question is you know, because you act as a innovation hub and kind of an incubator, so you are accepting only local startups in Bali, or is it like something global you're doing? 

0:35:40 - Bruno
So look, for now we are because, as I told you, there are many hub in different regions, so each region now will have its own ICP hubs. So if you are coming, for example, from North America, you can speak with the ICP up from North America. I just come from Latin America with the ICP up from Latin America, and the same thing for any other region. So this means that for now, I'm focused on incubating and accelerating projects that are coming from Indonesia. And if you think this is not a small job, because Indonesia is like the fourth most populated country in the world 280 million people, 17,000 islands the statistics are really great for this country. But in the future, let's say in the next six months, our goal it will be to start also an incubator accelerator that will work online. So this means that we will have also the possibility of sharing the knowledge that we will provide to local companies, also from people that are coming from other country or from other side of the world. 

0:36:43 - Mehmet
That's good to know. Now something maybe a little bit not directly related, but I'm sure, like you, would have some competitors and you need to keep focusing on the industry trends. So how do you plan this? What is your strategic planning strategy to keep up with all the trends that comes up and maybe some competition as well? 

0:37:11 - Bruno
So the trick is always the same Study a lot. So this is what I do I really try to be always up to date with everything that is happening. And in terms of the competition, let's say that I really believe that what ICP is bringing is different from other solutions. So because of this, I know that we are working with a very reliable product, that it can really make a difference. So at the end of the final choice of which blockchain to use or which blockchain to implement, or what kind of deployment to do, the final choice at the end goes to the end user. Let's say that I don't want to put myself in a position where I'm saying to other competitors if I want to use this world, the world, that hey, me, it's me and you it's nothing. No, I'm always actually open for collaboration with everyone because I believe that the future will involve several of these technologies. 

I don't believe that there will be the monopoly only of one blockchain or one protocol, but I believe, like in the common, working together with other blockchain, like, for example, internet Computer Protocol recently launched the Bitcoin integration. 

So this means that, without any preaches, you can use Bitcoin and all the advantages of the IC ecosystem, and very soon, in the next months, we are going to come out also with Ethereum integration, so we will be able to speak directly with the smart contract on the Ethereum blockchain and this will open the door to a lot of developers that are maybe not familiar with our ecosystem. 

They're more familiar with an ecosystem like the one of Ethereum, that it's a long term that is on the scene. So because of this, of course, it has like more people that are using it. But I think that with this integration, we are going to open the door to a lot of developers and communities and existing projects to explore also our solutions. So I don't feel like I'm in competition, but I feel like I'm collaborating with everyone that is involved. I believe that, as all that are part of these different ecosystems that are involved with innovation and with new technologies, I like to define ourselves as the pioneers of the futures, because, at the end, I believe that right now, we are still in a phase where we are scratching the surface and there is still so much that is going to happen that I think that the future is going to blow our mind. That's great. 

0:39:49 - Mehmet
I like the idea of collaboration and, because you brought this so, other than blockchain, brudo, what is the other technology that you feel also can have a lot of impact? 

0:40:01 - Bruno
I think you know already what is the answer Is the two letters more said Is there any engagement or marriage, we can say, between blockchain and AI? 

0:40:15 - Mehmet
Can you say? 

0:40:16 - Bruno
Absolutely. Also, we, as Internet Computer Protocol, we are promoting a lot for developing an artificial intelligence solution on the IC ecosystem, like, for example, a new way of creating machine learning or a new way of creating governance or token. But especially, the way where I really believe that artificial intelligence is going to make a difference in blockchain is going to be, in the moment, like we have an artificial intelligence capable of translating automatically any kind of instruction into the right coding program for that specific blockchain or, for example, even for auditing code. At the end, smart contracts are public, so everything is public. So this means that if we have a tool that is using artificial intelligence for checking what is written inside the smart contract, you don't need to be anymore like the greatest developer in the world to be able to know what is written in a contract. You can do it easily with artificial intelligence. And then I know that solutions like these are already being deployed and they are being improved every day. So I really I know that there is a lot of critics right now for artificial intelligence because everybody says going to take your job, is going to take my job, is going to put people in the street. I actually believe the opposite, because even if it's going to replace some job, it's going to create much more new jobs At the end. 

You know, this is the same thing that happened 30 years ago when the new computers came out. 

If you remember, there were the first Microsoft programs like Excel, office, word, and people were like, oh, I don't need this, I still have my notebook, I don't need to write it down on the computer. 

And there were the people that you know that were feeling that these tools, instead of enhancing their productivity because this is actually what is happening when you use Word, excel or PowerPoint you are enhancing the way you work in your presentation, your write document, your report numbers. The same thing now is happening with artificial intelligence. Now we have a new tool that is allowing us to do everything in a shorter way with much bigger results. Of course, the human intervention is always going to be needed, because artificial intelligence is lacking the common sense. It's lacking, you know, everything that is making us humans unique. So that's why I believe that in the future, we're going to have like a 70% of work done by artificial intelligence and 30% of work for delivering a result made by the humans 100% and actually, as it became now a standard word where we talk about using AI as a tool and augmenting your powers, I would say it's like the calculator or the smartphone, right? 

0:43:16 - Mehmet
So exactly we can say the same thing, bruno. I'm not sure if I should ask you, but because at the beginning you mentioned that this hype of trading cryptocurrency is not there anymore. Well, what you can tell people who are, you know, the guys who are very much into crypto, like what's going in that space? 

0:43:43 - Bruno
So you know why everybody got interested in Bitcoin and in a cryptocurrency they become. Everybody got interested in the moment Bitcoin, which is $70,000, because since the moment, it was 80 cent every year Everybody was saying that Bitcoin was done, going to die, that blockchain was not going to exist anymore, that cryptocurrency was a scam and this and that. Then you know Bitcoin, which $70,000. We had an amazing bull market where a lot of people made lots of money, even overnight, but the thing is that right now we are in better market, right? 

now even if there is correction, there is movement going up and we still are not out from the, let's say, the the cycle of the bull market. So because of this, you know, I'm saying don't get passionate about the technology only because of the speculation that you can make out of it. May become passionate about it because of the solution that it can bring In our space. Because sometimes you know, the price of a coin doesn't reflect the Actual value that it has in terms of utility, and this is something that need to be get take care of, because you know, at the end, the price of a token is the price that you are willing to pay for having it. And also, you know there are other Parameters to keep in mind, like, for example, how much it scares, how much it said the blationary, how much you know it has a utility if you use it for governance. 

There are many, many, many parameters and variables that you need to keep in mind that when you are approaching a Crypto project, especially from the speculation point of view. So, because I'm not a speculator and, as I told you, I approach it as an engineer, so I approach it from the technical point of view and I honestly do mostly long-term investment. So if I invest in a project, I don't invest for one month, one year, but usually invest for a period that goes from three to five, seven years. And I told you I bought Bitcoin in 2018. I never sold them because I'm still think that we are not there yet where we are supposed to be, and I wanted Bitcoin to become like my Pension, so I want to have something that is gonna keep me safe for the future. So, because of this, you know I I'm not the best person to keep trading advice because I don't know we are not Not giving. 

I'm just saying, before you invest into something and read about it, discover it, check their competitor, check about their teams, check about their solutions, see if there are similar solution to it and understand why this one that catch your eyes is better than the other one that are existing. Check their community, check their Twitter, the link in their Instagram, check how many people are interacting, how many people are using it, and understand on your own, because this is that. This is the point of the Centralization. You don't want any more to have a middle Middleman, a third party that is telling you do this, do that. These decisions now are all yours. 

So if you make a good decision, clap for you. If you make a bad decision, clap for you as well, because it was anyway your decision. So if you are successful, if you fail, it's always your decision. And this is the amazing thing, because in our path, you know, the path cannot be always a straight line of success. The party's up and down and actually, the more failure you have along the way, the more things you are learning and the more you are gonna arrive prepared to your final goals 100%. 

0:47:19 - Mehmet
It's your decision and this is why it's decentralized, because you don't need to rely on an analyst telling you is it going up or down. Yeah, so so I, like you know, when you said go and study it because you know, I had a lot of discussions here in Dubai, you know, I start to meet people in some meetup groups and so, and I said, okay, the first question, I asked them why did you go into crypto? Because when I tell them, like I'm into tech, so what do you think about blockchain? And I asked why you invested, that's how they don't know, they just follow the hype. And so, yeah, but next time, try to study, try to understand what you are doing over here. So it was very good advice. It's not a trading advice. 

Yeah, it's a. I would say it's a friendly advice and they should take it. Bruno asks you know we come to an end. I have very famous question. So Is that anything you wished I had asked you and how you'd answer it? 

0:48:23 - Bruno
Honestly, I'm very happy about this conversation because you know we we went with the flow. I think we covered a lot of information. Actually, you know, if you have more question we can do another show 100% and where they can find more about the internet computing protocol and you, bruno. 

Okay, so if you want more information about the IC ecosystem, you can go on their website. It's internetcomputerorg. On the website, there is everything public. You can see everything about this blockchain, what are its advantages, who are the team, what are the new things that are coming up. So please go and check the website, because it's super cool, it's been designed really nice and there is everything that you need to understand what is happening and for reaching out with me. Guys, so you can contact me on LinkedIn, you can find me as Bruno Calabretta and Reach out to me, send me a DM, book, a call, with me looking forward always to meet new people and To share more about what I'm doing and about the change that I'm trying to make in this world. 

0:49:29 - Mehmet
Great. Thank you very much, bruno, for your time today and, guys, I will make sure that the links that Bruno mentioned they will be in the description of the episode and please let me know how you think this episode went. I like to hear your feedback and if you are interested in being a guest also on the show, don't be shy, reach out to me. My guests are, you know, from all over the place so we can arrange for a time and we can do the recording. And, as I say at the end of each episode, I hope you are enjoying and keep the feedbacks coming. Thank you very much and we'll meet again in the next episode soon. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye bye, bye, bye-bye, bye-bye. 

Transcribed by https://hello.podium.page/?via=mehmet