#218 Unlocking Human Potential: How Neuroscience and Psychology Shape Success With Executive Coach Elizabeth Louis

0:00:02 - Mehmet
Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet. Today I'm very pleased to have with me from Virginia, from the US, elizabeth. Elizabeth, thank you very much for being with me on the show today. The way I like to do it, I keep it to the guests to introduce themselves, so the floor is yours. 

0:00:18 - Elizabeth
Well, thank you so much. Yes, my name is Elizabeth Lewis. I'm an executive performance coach. I work with STEM individuals mainly high performers and big picture at a really high level. I help high performers increase their impact, influence and income so that they can make that everlasting meaning in other people and in their own lives. 

0:00:41 - Mehmet
Nice. So usually what I like to start is what brought you to this field, Elizabeth, like how was the journey that brought you to transitioning? Because I did some research from a trained therapist and you became an executive performance coach. 

0:00:59 - Elizabeth
Yes, so I actually have an undergrad in television producing. I did that for a handful of years and my childhood was filled with a lot of trauma. My brother tried killing me most of my life and so that obviously will leave some bad scars on your psyche and I wanted mental freedom. I just wanted to forgive my brother. I wanted to get out of this. Ptsd actually ended up being diagnosed with complex PTSD and I just wanted to heal my brain and not be so hypervigilant. 

And I went to therapist and no one was giving me transformation and so I decided to get my own graduate degree in performance positive psychology and just to start to fix myself, with no intention of doing this for a living. But long story short, it just turned out that I was very gifted in helping clients transform. You know, during this period of my life of getting my first graduate degree, I was studying and learning everything I could about the brain, about healing, about transformation, about how to getting from pessimistic to optimism and how to like changing your neurons in your neurology, and it just turned out that I was good at it and so I started taking on my professor's overflow of their clients and I started helping everyone. You know a lot of performance therapists will do this for free because we're so passionate about it, and that's kind of how it happened. And then I decided to just go all the way and get my second degree in clinical mental health counseling so I could be. 

I'm not a licensed therapist, but so I could work more in the therapy arena, because very rarely do you deal with a person who hasn't experienced some level of trauma, seeing as 70% of Americans have gone through it. So never plan to do this, it just kind of happened. 

0:02:40 - Mehmet
Yeah. So, by the way, like although, like, my majority of the audience are in the US, but I think it's a common problem. You know what you just mentioned, you know, and we try sometime, although like it's like a more entrepreneurial and techy show that I like to bring people like yourself it is a bit to talk, because I believe this is a very important, I would say, aspect of life at the end. 

So yeah now you know focusing on the coaching approach a little bit. So I understood that you know you focus on intersection between neuroscience and psychology of high performance. Can you a little bit unpack that to us? 

0:03:17 - Elizabeth
Yeah, yeah, I love that too. I've never even thought about wording it that way the intersection of neuroscience and psychology. So thank you. So what? So? Ok, let me say it this way Therapists will just focus on your emotions and kind of your well-being. 

Neuropsychologists, or those who specialize in neuropsychotherapy, are really looking at your emotions and brain connection. I think a lot of therapists aren't really educated, and even coaches I mean anyone can roll out a bed now and be a coach is terrifying. They are really trained on how to transform and you know, high performers, we wanted everything yesterday, we don't want to, you know, do psychoanalytic therapy where it's going to take a year. We want it and we want it now. And so I started to learn that if you can learn how to rewire your brain at a very effective rate, you get better results and then you start to cultivate that change at the neurological level, whereas in my experience and just as an expert in my field, a lot of coaches and therapists really just give you band-aid methods and so you get through it maybe in that area, but you haven't really fixed the solution. 

Or in America, you know, we're medicine happy Like give me medicine and just fix the problem, but when you take medicine, a lot of times you're actually cultivating a whole nother plethora of problems right, and so the neuroscience and the psychology is so brilliant because you're not just fixing the emotions but you're also rewiring your brain. I'm big into champion mindset and helping people cultivate that. If you look at an FMRI of a winner's brain and an FMRI of the average brain, you actually see neurological differences. So there is a lot of power in not just doing the psychological work on your psyche or on your soul, but also doing things that empowers and improves your brain, and it's amazing what can happen and you can get transitioned really quickly. I have a 99.6% success rate and my clients start to get changed within two sessions. In my fifth session they're a whole nother person. 

0:05:16 - Mehmet
Wow, that's really fantastic. Now, this, you know it's related to what you were mentioning and it's something that came across while reading myself Many books, not related necessarily to psychology or you know to do, but I always saw the word neuroplasticity. Right, yeah, and you mentioned that you leverage this also as well, so can you elaborate on how this plays in coaching people? 

0:05:46 - Elizabeth
In the sense of how neuroplasticity can empower clients or how we use it yes. 

Well, you have to remember that just simply thinking changes your brain. You know, thinking changes your neurology. And so we've proven and when neuroscience isn't that old, in the grand scheme of things, we've proven that the brain is pliable, that you can reshape it. And one of the best ways to reshape it is how you think. I mean, we've proven in neuroscience that you go the direction of your most dominant thoughts. 

Most people don't even know their dominant thoughts, unfortunately, which is terrifying because 95% of our thoughts are the same. And so if you kind of see your mind like a muscle on your body, like let's just take a bicep, for example, your bicep isn't going to get stronger or denser unless you do what you work it out. And you have to be intentional, right, like if you're going to go to the gym and you're like, oh, I want really big biceps, you can't work your legs and expect your biceps to get bigger, right, you have to be so intentional with it. And it's the same with your mind. In fact, if you are intentional with how you think and what you think about, you can just start to reshape your mind. That way it's a lot like dress for the job you want, but in this case, it's think about the things you want to be. It's champions have a tremendous ability to be optimistic, hopeful and faith-filled and I don't just mean religion, I really mean believing things are happening before you see the evidence of it, if that makes sense. 

0:07:09 - Mehmet
Yeah, definitely, and I think this is a little bit related to, let's say, mindsets and leadership, right? So, from your experience, what are some common, limiting mindsets you find among high-performing executives and entrepreneurs? 

0:07:24 - Elizabeth
Perfectionism, Like we can just start right there at perfectionism. You know, type A behaviorism is also a fixed mindset, but perfectionism is the one I see the most, as well as codependency. It's amazing how there's a connection there with that as well, which is a terrible word for what it means. It's kind of funny how psychology creates words sometimes. But you know, the fixed mindsets are really that perfectionism, the rejection, the codependency. That's really what I run into the most. 

And you have to learn how to break those fixed mindsets and start to be vulnerable, because they're defense mechanisms for being vulnerable and being a human, and lean into it, Because I like to tell people I don't give two craps about your business strategy If your mindset isn't correct and if you don't have the best. I guess I should also say I see a lot of poor self-esteem and self-confidence too, believe it or not, with high performers. And if you, I mean your self-image is going to make or break you at the end of the day. And so if you have all these fixed mindsets and you see yourself poorly, your business strategy doesn't mean anything at the end of the day if you don't have the right psychology to implement. 

0:08:33 - Mehmet
Yeah, now I don't like to make it as a challenging question, but, for example, especially people who work in tech, so they have to go nearly zero error right. So it's an engineer's mainly because you work with 10 people, yeah, and the way their brain and I'm an engineer also myself, so the way the brain works is like, okay, I need to make sure that it's 100% working. Fine, now it's and this is from entrepreneurial perspective it's good to fail sometimes. I'm just reading now a book from Tony Faddle, like you know, and how good it is to fail, especially when you are a fresh graduate. Now, how we can balance this, because you know, as a professional, you know the workplace, whether it's a startup, whatever, and the nature of my work requires from me to be as much as perfect as possible. So how we can make this balance between doing the job and having the growth mindset instead of the fixed mindset. 

0:09:45 - Elizabeth
Yeah Well, I would first say that you have to make sure you're not miscontruding the two. Wanting to have perfect work and being a perfectionist can be two different things, I think. I don't really believe people wake up in the morning and are like yeah, I can't wait to do a horrible job at work. 

At least high performers are not like that. A perfectionism, I like to tell people, if you imagine your mind as a garden, we know that one weed can destroy an entire harvest, right, and so perfectionism is a weed. And so really you want to shift away from that perfectionistic thinking, because perfectionism really is saying I have to be perfect or I'm not accepted. I have to know everything, I have to do everything, I have to be everywhere or I'm not worthy, and that's a BS lie at the end of the day, whereas wanting to do your best in a profession is completely different. I mean, you see this with professional athletes all the time. They want to do their best, they want a perfect game. But everyone knows the path to success requires failure, because that's how you learn, that's how you grow, and when you have that growth mindset versus the fixed mindset, for instance, of perfectionism, you're able to explore and participate in failure in a way where you see the opportunities, where you reflect, where you learn, where you develop resilience. I mean, I'm not an engineer, but I've worked with enough of them now to know that sometimes those mistakes you make are actually what allows you to figure out the solution. So it's more so the intention and the perspective you have when you run into it. I mean, yes, there is pressure for you guys to get it right, but just imagine being able to face that pressure with the freedom of a growth mindset, versus the additional pressure and stress of perfectionism. Your brain is not wired to work well under fear at the end of the day, and so if you can learn how to prune out that perfectionistic route and really start to allow yourself to focus immensely on your work, you don't just get more bandwidth to do the work, you also have more easement to do it and to do it more successfully. I think it's interesting. 

In performance psychology you read a lot about golf. At the end of the day, it's just one of the number one sports that is talked about. I'm not sure if you play golf, but when you try, okay. So then you know, when you try to be good at golf, you suck right, you allow yourself to be in the moment and you're relaxed. It's just amazing how well you can do. And so when you struggle with perfectionism, you don't really trust yourself at the end of the day, but when you have that growth mindset and you have done the work to heal yourself and to have a healthy psychology, you can trust yourself instead of beating yourself or messing up. You can quickly adapt, recalibrate and get back to work, because, I mean, even the most brilliant coder didn't just wake up one day and was perfect. It took tremendous practice. I mean, that's how life is, is you have to practice, practice, practice. 

0:12:49 - Mehmet
That's right, 100%. And just to add on that, you know, I think one of the mistakes that usually people do is, you know, they neglect the amount of learning they can have from doing mistakes. So I learned it the hard way also as well. Now, but talking about this, how important is the leadership role here? And when I say the leadership role is on communicating this mindset and, you know, creating what we can call like a psychological safety for their teams. 

0:13:30 - Elizabeth
Yeah, I'm a huge proponent of psychological safety. I'll answer your former and then go to your latter. First off, you can't really tell people anything. That doesn't work. We know that, especially that you've got kids. 

Leaders have to walk their own talk and fortunately a lot of leaders don't. I mean, you know, you go to school to be an engineer, you don't go to school to manage people. So and it's funny I was in a training the other day and there was actually a rocket scientist in the training. He was he's an ex rocket scientist and we had a slide that said because I was in a psychology course and they were saying, like motivational interviewing isn't rocket science and he goes actually, rocket science is so much easier than people management because people are so complex. Right, people aren't a science, people are an art. 

Leadership is huge, but you have to lead by doing and serving and you have to be a true leader. You have to be 100% humble, secure in yourself, you have to be wise, you have to be better than the people. You're obviously growing. So it takes a lot of work, it takes a lot of commitment. It's definitely not for everyone. 

And then you have to learn how to communicate that in your actions and in how you guide them or serve them at the end of the day and it can be difficult because not every I mean I like to tell people when I work with leaders you're a step parent to all these kids you never necessarily wanted, because you're dealing with all these different dynamics at the end of the day, and it can be a problem summon. So you have to have tremendous self regulation, you have to have tremendous control over your emotions. You know, to put this in neuroscience terms, you have to have a really sharp executive functioning system which takes effort to build, especially if you have any neurodevelopmental issues. And I apologize, your second part of that question I just, I just totally forgot. 

0:15:16 - Mehmet
I was saying, you know about communicating this, like how to communicate this effectively from leadership to the team. 

0:15:24 - Elizabeth
Yes, I actually have a mastermind I'm putting together right now, which is called leading the personality, because you can't communicate these leadership qualities in one simple message, because we all perceive things differently, and so it's really taking the time to be observant and studying the people you work with, understanding their intrinsic motivation, because intrinsic motivation is really what you want to tap into with your employees. Extrinsic motivation can get you over the hump, but you got to figure out what really makes that individual you know move and wake up in the morning and what their desires are, and so all of that is a long-term plan and it takes time. So it's learning. You know what, what are the thorns and the flesh of each individual you work with, what makes them excited, what are they passionate about and what are the words that trigger and not trigger them. So it's really having that investigative mindset and being curious and really being patient. But more importantly and I think this is very difficult, more so for men, just because of how the culture of the world really raises men you have to be vulnerable, you have to really lean into some of that uncomfortable communication and take the time to connect with them, Because a lot of times this is what I see a lot of leaders doing is they just try to stay focused on work and what the work agenda is. 

But you have to create a relationship because people are relational and they're going to do more for you if they truly feel cared for and safe to speak their minds right Like. How many times have you seen a leader that just like barks at you or snaps at you if you say the wrong thing? It's one of the worst things you can create at the end of the day, especially in the tech fields where you need a lot of creativity and innovation running through. 

0:17:04 - Mehmet
Yeah, that's 100% correct and unfortunately we still see people who are having this mentality. But slowly things are changing. I would say Now like us especially. You deal with STEM people, so we care a lot about metrics and outcomes. So your approaches lead to business results backed by data. Can you share some metrics that usually you focus on? 

0:17:34 - Elizabeth
Sure, I mean I can tell you the results that my clients get. I mean I have a 99.6% success rate getting my clients to their goals On average. Confidence increases 75%, income increases 33%. You start to change by the second session and by the fifth session you're a new person. I'm really heavy on data because of my clients. 

So one of the first things I do is a needs analysis, which is where I score them in 23 psychometric traits. 

This tells me so much information about their brain, about how they relate to people, about their leadership style and about how they see themselves. 

I also ask them to take this quiz, which is free on my website, called what Thinking Trap is Limiting your Performance, so I can understand their narration, seeing as 95% of our thoughts are the same every single day, Like at some point you got to get ahead of it and not be surprised by it. 

You know it's just going to be the same narration until you change it. And then I ask them to take their temperament and their Myers-Briggs, because you have to prune out where nature excuse me, where nurture has ruined you, because codependency is really wired into our DNA. I don't really know a single person who doesn't struggle with codependency until they do the work to get free from it. And like anything, it's a spectrum, and so if you're always afraid of being liked or not being liked, or ultimately allowing humans to be your God or to be the one that gives you power of if you should live or if you should not live, at the end of the day, then you're going to change how you guide and lead people or how you do your work, based on just being accepted, and that's just not a fun place to be at the end of the day. 

0:19:04 - Mehmet
Yeah, that's true Now, but again, I'm sure that that will be some something that is intangible, you know, like it's not easily measurable. So how do you try to quantify this in your coaching? 

0:19:19 - Elizabeth
That's a great question. I have a lot of really data oriented people who I may like sometimes will be really obsessed with my assessments. They're like I'm going to take that again in four weeks and I'm like, ok, and it's always funny because this is 100% of the time. What happens? We get to that fourth week and they're like I'm like, do you want to take the assessments again? They're like, no, I have. My self awareness is so large now, I'm so aware of what I'm doing, I'm so much more intentional that I don't need that because internally I know that I have improved. And they have this tremendous conviction because they're starting to see the changes, because a lot of the things that I do focus on the neurology of the brain. So I'm getting that implementation and that shift in deep in their neurology and they start to get it quickly, because you actually can change your brain really quickly if you know what you're doing and how to do it and if you're willing to commit to it. 

0:20:14 - Mehmet
That's good to know. Actually, I get excited now to take some of these tests. Now, shifting a little bit to startups, because I cover a lot of startups, so many startups actually. They lack a lot of budget for many things, but maybe they are lacking the budget for kind of an executive coaching. So do you have any tips for at least before reaching a place where they can afford it, where they can do kind of a self coaching? That could be helpful, especially for founders, because these guys are under huge pressure. They are under huge, tremendous, I would say, anxiety also as well. So what can they do until they can afford a full-fledged executive coaching? 

0:21:03 - Elizabeth
Learn how to have peace in every situation and be content with everything that you're facing at the end of the day. And there's a branch of neuroscience called Neurotheology which says that it's just proven that our brain is wired for God and that growing in your faith is one of the best things you can do for your brain and your psyche. If you really can't afford working with someone Now to push back a little, if you're that stressed and you're that anxious, you can't afford not to work with a coach at the end of the day. And there's a 788% ROI with working with an executive coach. So at the end of the day, I'm sure there's a sacrifice you can make. I have payment plans. Coaches have payment plans. My gosh, there's like better up now. There's so many affordable things where you can get executive coaching now that to me, that's just an excuse at the end of the day, cause when you really want something, you make a way to get it. 

0:21:54 - Mehmet
Right Any books you recommend Elizabeth. 

0:21:57 - Elizabeth
You know it's such a broad question. I would have to know a little bit more about what the person is struggling with and how they're wired and how they most learn. I mean, if you're just trying to be the best leader that you can be, john Maxwell really has some powerful leadership books. At the end of the day, if you're wanting to deal with some stress management, gosh, there was a book that I was reading the other day that I can't remember the name of it. I mean, there's so many books out there. I mean, my gosh, go get Blinkist or Shortform and just do a keyword search about it and you could just read the summaries within 17 minutes. You've read the whole book at the end of the day. You know it's to me it's not about finding the information, it's applying the information and you're bombarded with content every single day now on the internet. 

So it's really, in my opinion, less is more. I mean, neuroscience will say the same thing. So pick one thing that you wanna work on and work on it for the entire month. Like, for instance, if you're snapping at people, you're struggling with anger, you have some bitterness in your heart, there's something that says you're like unsettled in life. So learn how to. There's what's called a magical moment in neuroscience, meaning right before you react or go back down your default method, you freeze and you shift to a different direction. Right, and you go that way. 

I mean, visualization is one of the most powerful and things you can do. This is why we do this in performance coaching, and performance coaching is based off of sports psychology. But most people do visualization wrong, because you have to use all your senses. You can't just use your sight. You gotta hear it, you gotta see it, you gotta taste it, you gotta smell it, you gotta feel it, you gotta do it all, and then you just gotta rehearse and rehearse and rehearse. You know, actually, I'll say for leaders too and Harvard Business Review does a lot of research on this Journaling one of the most powerful things you can do Both men. Do not do it. 

0:23:57 - Mehmet
Yes, unfortunately, unfortunately. And I started to do it late, by the way, but once I started I figured out all the benefits of it. I can say this is my advice from my small advice from my side. So, again, because we are talking about tech and entrepreneurs, how do you see coaching methods apply to startup culture, especially because these guys are always looking to grow, looking to scale, so how that can be applied to such cultures. 

0:24:33 - Elizabeth
Yeah, I mean there was a time period in the world where your hard skills got you further. Now soft skills get you further. We do business with people. People are make-up businesses. Coaching can really empower everyone to learn soft skills, because people do business with people that make them feel good at the end of the day. We don't remember what you say, but we sure as heck will remember how you made me feel at the end of the day, especially in sales. 

Sales is all about connection and psychological safety. Fear-based selling doesn't really work anymore, so much it's like the cat's out of the bag we know. So when it comes to coaching, there's so many things that can help. I think we could maybe agree that the world's going to hell in a handbasket really quickly right now. It's just amazing how much oppression, especially, is happening in America. It's obviously been around the world, but you're really starting to see it in America more and more, and so if you can help your employees perform better by just having a more mentally free mindset or feeling more safe or feeling more optimism, that can go so far. I mean, one of the best things you can do if you're in a startup or you're a founder and you have a lot of sales employees is teaching them optimism, because there's a direct correlation between optimism and sales. At the end of the day, it's going to be really powerful for you guys to grow, because rejection gets to people, and so you have to learn how to be what I like to call a tough-minded optimist, where nothing gets you down and you jump right back on that horse and you move forward, which then leads you into resilience. Right, resilience is not something that most people are born with. Some people are, but you have to learn it, and so coaching can teach you how to have resilience at the end of the day. 

I read a quote earlier today from Thomas Edison. I'm totally going to paraphrase. He pretty much said the biggest failure is when somebody quits and they don't realize how close they were to that finish line of success, if you will. And so it's just learning how to pick yourself up. The Marines have a saying fall seven times, get up the eighth time. 

At the end of the day, you just got to get up, and the question is, how can you get back on that horse one second less than before at the end of the day? And so it's really creating that solution-focused mindset that can help founders, entrepreneurs across the board. Coaching is great. At the end of the day, I mean we all. There's a belief in sports psychology or performance psychology that you have the right amount of motivation. It's just tapping into it. And so this is what I like to teach my leaders, especially my financial advisors is you have to learn how to speak in a way that gets your employees or your clients having change talk, because when they start to hear themselves and their ability to change, then they're more likely to do it at the end of the day. 

0:27:15 - Mehmet
And so I mean coaching can just help you with your people skills at the end of the day, which is so much of what life is nowadays 100%, and I love, you know, the resilience part of it, because I think it's what people are missing a lot giving up early, you know, thinking that it's done easily. You know there's I'm a big fan of, you know, robin Sharma and you know I read all of his books and he repeats some sometimes. You know, at the beginning, when I started this journey of you know transforming, to listening to coaches, you know, listening to podcasts, so I didn't get at the beginning, the idea of you know something being repeated multiple times and I was saying why are they repeating this? Like whether him or like other? You know people in the same field and I'm sure that you do the same with your clients also, elizabeth. And then I figured out that actually, repetition it's one of the things that it will rewire your brain and then, after a while, you start on something. 

Okay, now I understood why this guy was repeating this concept because he wanted, or she wanted, me to get it. And this helps resilience, by the way, because when you start to remember these, you know phrases and quotes and you know the paragraphs from the books. You start to put it all together and, if you allow me, just you know and you know, this is one I'm not sure if it related or that, but it came to my mind now about how to relate things and then be resilient If people goes. And you know, one of the my favorite graduation speech done was by Steve Jobs when he said you know, like when everything starts to fall back, you know what something happened. And then, and if you, if you hear that he's speech, you know he's talking about actually a resilient story and a mindset story. And you know, and I appreciate all those people like yourself, elizabeth, who tries to help people, not to give up. So and this is leads me, what is the most challenging aspect of being a performance coach? 

0:29:27 - Elizabeth
For me. For me, it's probably that I'm, I don't, it's not really a problem, so that's why I laugh. But I'm I'm so obsessed and hungry with learning that sometimes I have a hard time turning my brain off at night because I read, I study, I watch so many lots of called like trainings, or I do a lot of psychology trainings. I just always want to be my personal best and I just I love learning to the point that sometimes I'm like, oh my gosh, my hobby is learning and I want to take a break from learning. 

But I find everything else boring, and so it's like I wish I could just like read a non, I mean read a fiction book or something. But for me it's always like I just want to learn. So I think that hardest part is sometimes being like, okay, I'm going to take a break from learning or I'm going to take a break from thinking. I'm just, I'm just very introspective, very investigative in my thinking style. So I think the hardest part is probably like wishing I could learn a little faster than I probably can at the end of the day. 

0:30:29 - Mehmet
Yeah, everyone wish like they have this super brain where you can suck all the information and have it processed at once. Yeah, maybe one day we will have that. 

0:30:39 - Elizabeth
Let's see or we're going to like book, a book really quickly and you're like oh, I got it all right, like it's just. You know, that's, that's, that's my thing. I just, I just love learning. I mean, my, my job is my hobby, my hobby is my job. So I'm very blessed in that aspect. 

0:30:53 - Mehmet
Yeah, like I can, I can even feel it from far away. I would say, and you know, like this is what it motivates you, I'm sure about it as we're coming to an end, like, and this is, you know, maybe it's like traditional question, but again, like, if you give one piece of advice to you know anyone who is a tech leader or entrepreneur who's listening or watching us today, what, what would you tell him or her? 

0:31:21 - Elizabeth
The number one piece of advice I like to encourage people to learn is acceptance. Acceptance is the biggest game changer, because when you learn that you can only control what's in your space, what's in your control, and you can only focus really what's in your control, a lot of peace will come in. You know, codependency is trying to control another person. At the end of the day, If you're a boss and you're getting frustrated because the person down the hall is doing things you don't like, well, that's out of your control, right. So when you really start to learn how to practice acceptance and control what's in your control, it's just insane how that right there will bring in so much peace and even more bandwidth. 

0:32:05 - Mehmet
That's, that's you know. Nice to hear, Elizabeth. Now I have a final famous question. Is there anything that you wish. I had asked you and feel free to answer that. 

0:32:17 - Elizabeth
Ah, I think you did a great job with all of your questions. I mean, I think, at the end of the day, the one thing I guess I could add is everything comes down to practice. You know, Tiger Woods didn't become amazing at golf because he didn't practice. It all becomes to practice, practice, practice. And you know, I think a lot of us hate practicing, like let's just be honest for a second. So then the key is learn how to love what you do, if you don't already love what you do, and you can manipulate your brain to do anything at the end of the day. And so that's the key learn how to love what you, what you do, and practice, practice, practice. 

0:32:51 - Mehmet
Yeah, and about practice. I hope that I will not mix up the books, because you know my brain works so fast. You know there's a book where they talk about you know practicing and you know, for example, athletes usually they have to spend minimum 10,000 hours. I think it was the outliers. I think, yeah, so it's all about practice. I can't agree more with you, elizabeth, on this, as we come to an end where people can find more about you. 

0:33:21 - Elizabeth
Yes, you can go to my website, elizabethlewislouiscom, and if you want to learn, like, what your core narration is, you can take my free quiz what thinking trap is limiting your performance? Because those thinking traps are a huge game changer. And you can go to Elizabeth LewisLOUIScom backslash thinking trap quiz and it'll score you in 17 of the most common cognitive distortions. So it's really a game changer when you start to learn your thinking patterns. 

0:33:47 - Mehmet
Great. I would make sure that these links will be in the episode description. Thank you very much a little bit for being here today. I really enjoyed the discussion and this is the way I end my episodes To the audience guys, keep the feedbacks coming. 

I'm really enjoying reading them and thank you for pointing me out. And thank you for liking the you know having the mix, because I don't cover only tech, as I told you, elizabeth. So it's tech, entrepreneurship and sometimes people who are experts in the field, similar to you. So thank you for the audience who are writing to me and mentioning that they are liking you know what they are seeing sometimes if they are watching or listening, and if you are interested to be a guest, you have a story, you have something special you want to share with the world. Don't be shy, reach out to me. Times also are not that special at all. Elizabeth is on the East Coast, I'm in Dubai, so we can arrange for that. No issues at all, and thank you for tuning in. We will meet again in next episode. Thank you, bye-bye. 

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