#220 Creating Success in Marketing For Startups with Michael T. Baker

0:00:02 - Mehmet
Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet. Today I'm very pleased to have with me Michael. Michael, thank you very much for being on the show. The way I like to do it is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves. So the stage is yours All right? 

0:00:17 - Micael
Thank you so much for having me on the show. My name is Michael T Baker and I am the owner and CEO of Perception Content Media. A fun little background about me is I spent most of my life as a musician and I've toured around the US. I've played with some of the biggest stars in the world that you would know, and after that music career and spending some time working with some tech companies, I started my own marketing firm and have been going strong for a few years now. 

0:00:52 - Mehmet
That's great, that's an unusual shift. Or move out. Say, michael, what get you from music to this space, to marketing? 

0:01:04 - Micael
Yeah, well, it's funny because I never realized it, but I've actually always have done marketing, so music was my passion. I grew up the first six years of my life I spent on a tour bus with my family, so I was kind of born into music. But when I started pursuing a career of my own, I was the one that handled all of the marketing for the bands and created way back then show them off my age it was just creating flyers and things like that. And then when websites and MySpace and all of that old school stuff, I was the one that did all of the marketing and all of the stuff. I never thought of it as marketing in that time. It was just, hey, this needs to be done for the band to help accelerate the band and so fast forward. 

I got into a career of sales in tech and I was the National Director of Business Development for a couple of tech firms, and both of those firms I actually handled the marketing for them. It was just simply because they didn't have anybody doing it and I knew that that worked hand in hand. It's called sales and marketing Right, and so I just did it because it needed to be done. And then when the last tech company and I parted ways, I realized that what I really truly loved doing was the marketing aspects. 

I've always been one of those people that when commercials came on watching a show and a commercial came on, I was the one that actually wanted to watch the commercials. I was very interested on how businesses presented their company or their product, and I didn't realize until later on in my life how much I really enjoyed marketing. And so a couple years, a few years ago, I just went full force and said you know what? This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to start my own firm. This is what I love to do. And I just jumped two feet in and started going after it. 

0:03:14 - Mehmet
That's really like an inspiring story. I would say, michael, now you mentioned like you work with tech companies. And I'm sure now that you work as a business owner with multiple clients. So what do you see like something special that tech companies usually they need to focus on, that it's not. Maybe applicable to other areas of business. 

0:03:45 - Micael
Yeah, I mean, I think overall and I do have some tech companies, but I have a wide range of clients that I work with and I think the biggest thing that a lot of business owners deal with is accepting change, and the biggest change that's happening right now is the adaptation of AI. And there's this old school thinking of well, this is the way we've done it, this is the way that's always worked, let's just keep pounding away that way, but it's like the world is changing and AI is absolutely a game changer. So my biggest advice, for no matter what you're doing, whether it has to do with marketing or whatever you're doing within your business is to embrace the change, embrace AI, because it's not going anywhere. 

You can ignore it all you want, it's not going anywhere. So you either embrace it and find a way that you can utilize AI to help your business, whether it's in sales, marketing, creativity, coming up with products, any of those types of things. But I would say, embrace AI and utilize it to your benefit, because the businesses that are are going to shoot right past you. Your competitors are using it. You need to jump on it as well. 

0:05:10 - Mehmet
Yeah, that's true, you know, AI is changing the landscape big time and every day we see something new coming over there. Now, like because also I cover startups usually and these startups can be, you know, usually tech startups, right, but it can be applicable to any startup or even a small business I would say so how important it is to you know, give, I would say, some attention to these digital marketing campaigns and, if you can like a little bit like explain exactly what are the main things that they should be doing to at least have their voice heard in the marketplace. 

0:05:57 - Micael
Yeah, absolutely Great question. So a lot of what business owners do, or in startups, is they go from zero to 100 in their marketing very fast without understanding all of the things that you need to do at the very beginning. So my biggest advice to any type of startup tech company that's trying to get out there and get their name be found is to make sure that you are listed correctly across the internet. So what I mean by that is if somebody goes on to search engine let's say Google, google is the biggest one and they are searching for you know, let's say, software company near me or specific type of tech company, you want to be able to rank as high as possible, and a lot of startups think right off the bat we got to run ads, we've got to do this, we've got to do this SEO, spend, spend, spend and really you're reducing your amount of ROI by doing that. 

What you want to do is you want to make sure because Google's got a split second to give you the best possible results for that consumer that's looking for business just like yours. So not only make sure that your business is listed 100% accurately just on Google, but also on Yahoo, being every single website that you can think of across the internet and there's about 47 to 50 of them that are relevant to that, what Google is looking at. So make sure your information is 100% accurate across the internet. So that means your address, your phone number, your website all of those things need to be exact, written exactly the same across the internet, and that is a good foundational level of things that you need to do get started. The other thing is, obviously you're going to have a website. Make sure that information is listed clearly and, once again, accurately on your homepage of your website. That will greatly increase your rankings on Google and help you be found by those consumers that are looking for your specific business. 

0:08:15 - Mehmet
That's good and you know it's something that, of course, I always tell people, that you should find a way that people find you. But because you mentioned AI and you know, I want to take your opinion on this one. So they are saying you know, search engine optimization with the AI is changing. What are you seeing from that perspective, michael? Is it true that SEO will not be the same after what we are seeing now with this generative AI and other technologies that are coming out there, or is it something here to stay? 

0:08:50 - Micael
Yeah, I believe that it's SEO is still here to stay. It's just a matter of how it changes. I mean, we all know if you're trying to have a viral post to go viral on Instagram, tiktok or any of those types of things, it's a forever circle of trying to figure out what it is that's going to make something go viral, right? So it's always the SEO is always going to be changing and absolutely AI is going to rapidly change that even faster, and so the biggest thing to do is and, for instance, one of the things that we utilize is we utilize AI for ad spending, so running ads AI is very critical to running ads and so, yeah, I do believe that AI will change SEO and it will always be there, right, because there's always got to be a way for Google or any other search engines to understand how to rank businesses or individuals properly, and the way that it's going to be is how a search engine optimizes right. 

0:10:08 - Mehmet
Yeah, yeah makes sense. Now also how important Michael, early in the business to, because you touched this on it. But if you can a little bit, I would say, expand it more to be on all platforms I mean, it's not just about having a website, it's not like and to be on all, maybe search engines, so maybe they need also to have some social presence. So can you expand a little bit more about the other areas of online presence and how they can do it? 

0:10:41 - Micael
Yeah, absolutely so. I personally believe that you should be on every platform that you possibly can. That's relevant to you. Now, if you're not going to record videos and do reels, then obviously there's no reason for you to be on TikTok, because TikTok is specific to video, right, but you can still be on Instagram and post your static post if you'd like. But there is obviously a reason why TikTok is one of the highest used social platforms out there and is growing, and it's because video is king, right. So obviously, do as much video as possible. 

But going back to what I was talking about, those about being able to rank higher, google is looking at those social platforms as well, and so it's looking to see if you're on Facebook, instagram, x, formerly Twitter. Linkedin is a huge one because LinkedIn is a business social platform, and so Google's going to look at that, and so I highly recommend, if you are a business, a business owner, to make sure that you are on every social platform that you can possibly be on, for myriad of those flatline SEO type of things, but also for the fact that you never know where your customer is going to be. You don't know. You can say, well, my clientele is only on LinkedIn. Well, you never know, that's that perfect client. 

His or her favorite app may be TikTok and you may be missing that golden perfect client by simply ruling that out before you even tried it. And so I say be on every platform you possibly can and don't worry about the video. You don't have to be, it doesn't have to be in a studio, it doesn't have to be anything that's perfect. The best thing you do is just start Do one. The more you do, you'll get better and better and better, and then the more raw, the more authentic, the more people will engage with you. 

0:12:52 - Mehmet
Right and this applies also, michael, I believe, not only to be to see businesses, even B2B businesses, right 100%, absolutely. 

Yeah, because you know I was mentioning to a friend like, even if you are into the B2B space, you know the ultimate buyer from you. You know he's a human being like us, like, and he go home and or she goes home and they check their social media. Maybe they are on TikTok or Instagram, I don't know and you know if they see your company there it will click something. Oh, okay, like you know, I know these guys are okay. What they, what these guys are doing, is cool. So let me find out more or let me call them back and discuss the project with them. So I agree with you on this. You know, and you never know where your next customer is hanging around now. So 100% on this. Now, another thing we started to see recently is influencers as well, and you know, and it's again B2C and B2B space. So what are you seeing in that area, michael, and is it really important to have a, an influencer, part of their marketing strategy? 

0:14:10 - Micael
I believe. So I believe influencers are a great way, and very vital way, of your business being found, liked and trusted. And so a lot of what and you can see this on a lot of your apps right now, especially video apps these large companies that are household names are even relying on and and it's interesting because influencer has a connotation to it that it's got to be some like celebrity or it's got to be this person that everybody knows, right? Well, you can see these companies. It's funny, one that pops up a lot for me. 

I have no idea, because I don't eat the cereal, but it's cinnamon toast crunch, and in the it's a, it's an ad, but it's just a person talking about oh, I didn't have milk, and blah, blah, blah, blah and cinnamon toast crunch. Well, that's an influencer, that's a that's influencing you, because it's a person who you can relate to, that you feel is just like me and they like cinnamon toast crunch. Now, next time I'm at the grocery store, if I'm looking for cereal, cinnamon toast crunch is going to just poke out a little bit more to my eye because of what was planted in my head by seeing that video. Right, and so influencer is somebody who influences you to want to get something, so it doesn't have to be an A list person. 

That being said, I do recommend that, in whatever city you're in, whatever town you're in, find somebody who is an influencer, like perhaps somebody like yourself that is a podcaster that is well known, that is on, and if I have a restaurant, I'm going to say, hey, mama, do you want to come in and see my restaurant? And I'll offer you a free meal. All I ask is that you do a quick little 15 second reel that talks about your experience at my restaurant. You're an influencer and so find those people that are willing to come in and review your products, give them something for doing it and get them to talk about it on social media. So that's my biggest thing is it doesn't have to be a list. Anybody who's willing to promote your product and influence others to buy your product is an influencer. I would absolutely utilize them. 

0:16:35 - Mehmet
Good advice. I would say, michael, one thing that usually again, small business owners and startup founders they would say look, we are already jumping between many things. We are already having a lot of things to do and a lot of tasks that we need to finish, so how do you think they can effectively manage to get into this marketing without being burned out at the end? 

0:17:11 - Micael
Yeah, there's a couple of ways that I would recommend for that, so I'll say a few. I'll say three different ones. I'll try to limit it to three. So the first thing is just an advice in general, and that is to block time. If you don't block time on your calendar and say, during this specific timeframe, from 10 am to 11 am, I'm focused on marketing, everything else has to go to the wayside. No phone calls, no, whatever. I am focused on what I need to do for marketing, whether that's setting up your camera, your phone camera, and just recording 10 videos and then scheduling those out. Block time that's if you were going to handle it yourself. 

The second thing to do hire somebody internally that can handle it for you. As an owner of a business, you need to be focused on revenue-generating tasks and running a company, and so a lot of times it's better to just delegate that to somebody who's going to be able to do that. It's an investment. Don't look at it as a cost, look at it as an investment and to being able to put your time back into revenue-generated tasks. 

The third thing is obviously to find somebody like myself or somebody that's close to you that you trust that you can have handle that for you. It's obviously there's a lot of things I won't get into about how great it is to outsource that rather than having to pull on a W2 employee and everything that goes along with that and what happens if they don't work out. Now you got to start back from square one, so there's a lot of advantages of outsourcing that as well. So those are my three big things Block time if you're going to handle it yourself with no distractions. Number two hire somebody internally that can handle it for you to take it off your task. Or three, outsource it to a marketing firm like mine or another that you trust and can help you out. 

0:19:15 - Mehmet
Yeah, and you know, like this is the trend now, people are starting to use fractional or virtual CTOs, virtual CMOs and virtual marketing. So, yeah, like I highly advise to do this also as well. Now, one thing maybe I should have asked before, but now it came to my mind. Now we started to talk content, michael, and I'm believer in that, by the way. So why, you know, from pure budgeting perspective, the main focus should go to content creation rather than paid ads, like I mean, in other words, why they should be doing a campaign that will lead to inbound rather than, you know, going for something that which is a little bit outbound and which is a little bit, you know, kind of old school. So I know that I mix two things in the same time, but you get my point. So, so there's the ad part and there's, you know, the outreach part, but I started to see that, you know, creating the content is more important. So, but I need to hear it from an expert like yourself. 

0:20:32 - Micael
Yeah, and another great question, and once again it's funny because every question you kind of it kind of keeps circling back to something that that I preach every day, and what that is is this is very important when, if you were to run an ad, and that this is goes back to the zero to 100, there's a lot of business owners that they start up their company and they build their their initial website and then they start running ads. What people are going to do is they are going to look for your company, they are going to research your company. They're not just going to click yeah, buy now. They're going to look for you. They're going to go to their favorite platform Facebook, instagram, tiktok, linkedin, whatever and see how legit, how reputable you are. And if you have not, if you're not creating content, if you are not putting that out there, then they're immediately going to be turned off. And I'm going to say this company must not be trusted. It must can't be trusted because even in the back of their mind, because they're gonna say they've done two posts in the last three months that that's not in the frame of what, how this world works now. And so it goes back to before you run any type of ads. 

Make sure you are consistently posting content on a regular basis, whatever that is, you don't have to do it every single day. You don't have to put something up every single day, but you must be consistent with it. I would say at minimum, two to three pieces of content per week, depending on your business and some businesses you should be posting every single day Saturdays, sundays, every single day, sometimes multiple times, depending on what you have. So I 100% agree with you that content. You need to be creating content first and foremost. And once you have created that relationship and you can people see that you're liked, you're followed, you're you're, you're able to offer tips and people like you. Now you can start running some ads. That way, when people go back to research you, they're immediately like man. I really like this company. My views of them have now gone up even more. I'm willing to buy from them. 

0:22:57 - Mehmet
Right, and just to know, if you allow me, michael, to add here and guys, nowadays you know like you can automate a lot of things, right, so you know there's a lot of tools out there that you can, you know schedule when to post, which platforms to post on, and you just need the content and you need the strategy. And here, where someone like Michael would help you and you know you would need, just you know to put the systems in place, do you do these services also, michael, like do you help customers to leverage tech also to organize this stuff? 

0:23:32 - Micael
We do, and before I tell you about that, I'll give you a good example that this is something that people can try and use as soon as soon as they finish watching your show. If they don't have chat GPT, go get chat GPT or something similar and go in there and prompt it to give you 10 quick marketing ideas for, and fill in your business and whatever your business is, and let it give you 10 of those, and then you can do one of two things you can either take that as scripts and record yourself saying those tips, or you can plug those that into a program like Canva, and canva will create 10 posts for you Text everything, they'll all look with your branding and everything, and all you have to do is go schedule those and you've got 10 posts. That's enough posts for some businesses for the next two to three weeks. That's it, and it will take you less than 15 minutes to do that. So try that. Try using just those two things chat GPT and Canva in tandem and you'll be able to create posts in an instant right, and then you can just get better and better at customizing it. 

To answer your question, though, we do. My business has a customized dashboard that any client that comes on with me gets access to the dashboard and is customized to their business, and within that dashboard, we have a social marketing tool. Everything that I provide is I call it digital marketing tools. So, depending on what you need, you use the right tool like a hammer, screwdriver, right. And so a social marketing tool where you can go in there and you can schedule out your posts for the entire months. Block, do that time blocking and schedule out your posts for the entire month, and now you're done. You could go get back into the revenue generating tasks. But yeah, we also have AI built into our social marketing tool. So if you're not very good at writing those posts and you don't want to deal with chat at GPT, you can actually use our tool and you just drop your picture in, you give the AI a little prompt about what you want to talk about and it'll write the write the post for you, including hashtags. So it's a pretty neat little thing. 

0:26:01 - Mehmet
Perfect. Now, of course, we did all this, michael. Now we are expecting to see results, and you know you are also. You had background in working with tech companies, and I work with tech companies as well and we say everything should be data driven. So when we say data driven, we need to understand what are the metrics that we should be monitoring and we should like measure our success based on. So, on a high level I know like it's a very deep detail, but on a very high level, in a language that everyone can understand what are the key metrics that usually people should be focusing on during the campaign? 

0:26:45 - Micael
Yeah, I would say there's three main things that you want to look at. The first one's going to be impressions. Impressions, very basic level, is how many people have viewed your content, how many people have viewed your posts that you put on. That's a quick way of saying impressions how many? How far has your post reached? Engagement is the second thing. Engagement is how many people are actually engaging with your posts. They are liking your posts, they are commenting on your posts, they are doing something to engage, to react to your post. And then the third thing, and the ultimate, the big one, is the leads is how many of those people that saw engaged then tried to reach out to you for a quote or to get more information. And so those are the three main data points that you want to follow the impressions, engagement and leads. 

0:27:44 - Mehmet
Now, michael, everyone, from time to time they complain about and you mentioned majority of these social media platforms and I've seen recently people complaining about the algorithms and you know, sometime formally known as Twitter X. I've seen a couple of days back, people were crying literally because it seemed that they have changed the algorithm. Link it in. They keep changing the algorithm. Honestly, I don't use meta products much. I have for the show a Facebook page and Instagram page, but it's just for the sake of being there as we were discussing at the beginning. I didn't notice it myself in the previous days, but I had one post that it went kind of a viral and they didn't do anything. And you know it gets the funny thing it gets more impressions than I mean, sorry, more interactions like likes and so on, more than you know the number of other methods. 

You know, like it's usually, you would have more like let's say, views is high and like less likes, so this one was high, high for me. Anyway, what I want to ask you, Michael, like, because of this algorithm keep changing. So how you know a service provider, at the end of the day, like you serve your clients, how do you manage? You know these changes and do you have a you know? Does this social media platforms tell people like yourself or companies who provide service like yourself, Michael, about these chances, these changes, time ahead? 

0:29:39 - Micael
So, yes, there are ways to find out from these companies that will, that will kind of give you, hey, this is what we're looking for now. But, to be very honest with you, nobody knows that, even even when it comes from the company themselves. And let's just say, let's just say a social company, instagram we'll just use Instagram as an example. For a long time, it was said that you only want to use seven to 10 hashtags, and then it went to you want to put as many hashtags as possible, and then it went to you only want to use two to three hashtags. But the thing is and there have been, there are, there is data and studies that have shown that, when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter, it really doesn't matter. As far as there is, I guess I shouldn't say it doesn't matter. The better way to say that is is there are, there is nothing and no definitive thing that says 30 hashtags work, only two hashtags work, zero hashtags work. Music works, no, music works. It is all over the board. 

You can do the as you said. You had one that went viral. If you were to do 100% exactly the same exact thing on that, you did on that post the chances of that one going viral the same way. The first one did everything, 100% the same. The chances of it going viral the same way, very slick, and that is a great example that shows you that if there was a specific algorithm, a specific thing that these platforms wanted you to use, then you should be able to just follow that and everything's going to be able to be seen and everything's going to go viral. Right? 

The number one advice that I say for that is kind of block out the white noise. I always my big advice is hashtag. One of your hashtags should always be your company name, whatever it is that you're selling, right? Hashtag Doritos. Hashtag Mercedes, you know. Whatever it is. Hashtag perception, content, media, right, always use that and then make sure you at least have two to three hashtags that are specific to what you're talking about. Right? I'm not going to put hashtag automobile if I'm trying to talk about marketing, same thing as you. 

You're not going to do a post that says, you know, hashtag drink milk if it has nothing to do, because then the algorithms don't know which audience to truly put that in front of, right? 

But if on my platforms I look at a lot of marketing content, and because I'm looking at a lot of marketing content and those hashtags tend to be universal across all the different people that I follow, it's going to suggest those types of things and that's how somebody like myself can get in front of the right people who love to watch marketing content, right and so so I would say that's the biggest thing Make sure you have a few, at least at least three to four very specific hashtags. So that is the algorithm at least understands a little bit of the right audience for you. And then back to what we just talked about a few minutes ago continuously put out content. Just be consistent. One thing we know for a fact is, no matter what platform it is, they reward you for not only putting out content but also engaging with other content. If you're just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and you're never engaging with other people's posts, that will negatively affect you. So put out content consistently, they will reward you. And interact with other people's content, they will reward you. 

0:34:06 - Mehmet
Yeah, and you know, like it's one thing before, I want to add something also. I think also the time I mean the time is, I believe it's not detectable. I'm not sure about it because I tried to myself to be religious about the time of posts I played, but you know, you don't know when people are actually opening the app. You know it's like it's something very variable. But what I wanted to convey is about keep posting, and I think you know there are some big names in the market, I mean, who are professionals and they have been doing it for years. So Gary Vinerchuck is one of them, of course. That tell you like you should be posting everywhere and you should put content everywhere. 

Now, from the, he's not new generation, he's almost same age, like Justin Welsh also, of course, he's very famous on LinkedIn and he have his content and you know, although, like, I see what he's doing and I see, for example, some people who are similar to what Justin does is they keep consistent. I think their success is keeping the consistency. It's more than you know, just like putting these very, I would say, sometimes people who try to imitate him, they over complicate things and, yeah, you need to have an Excel sheet doing this and a worksheet to do that, and I think it's much easier than this. You just need to be consistent, and I think what you mentioned previously, michael, about you know having the, the chat GPT prompt, giving you 10 ideas and then start to execute that would make things much easier, right? So this is my two cents on this topic. I'm not expert guys, but I've been reading a lot recently to try to understand. 

0:35:48 - Micael
Yeah, I mean, if you and I like Gary V I like a lot of the stuff that he says and if you listen to him, depending on what, what your business is, he will tell you he'll, he'll. He recommends to a lot of people, especially like musicians and artists that are trying to be found. He tells them they should be posting five, six times a day. That's five, six times a day, not just one time a day. Five to six times a day, because that the amount of consistency and the amount of posts that you do will just reach a greater audience to allow you to be found. 

0:36:27 - Mehmet
Now, obviously, there's a lot of businesses that can't do that, but that's one of Gary V's biggest recommendations Stay consistent, continuously post, absolutely Right right Like this is, you know, something I was inspired by kind of, you know, from the way you know I started one before even doing the podcast. I started it slowly to make kind of thought leadership or LinkedIn and then, when I kept doing it consistently, you know, I found like people that are liking it and they, you know, they pushed me later to do the podcast. So, yeah, 100%, michael, as we are coming close to an end where people can find more about you and your company. 

0:37:09 - Micael
Yeah, absolutely so. My company is Perception Content Media, and you can find that at find me at PerceptionContentMediacom. There's lots of information on there that will help you. I try, I like to help people, and so so there's a lot of tips and everything that are on my website and in my blog section, because I understand that there's a lot of people that just need to try to lack of better terms bootstrap this themselves first, and until they can get to a point of either hiring somebody or outsourcing, and so there's a lot of tips on there as well for people to do. And so that's PerceptionContentMediacom and one of the things I also wanted to do. 

For anybody who's who is one of your followers and watching, if they want to see what their business looks like, their online presence looks like, I have a what's called an online presence report that I would love to give to them and for them to see exactly the things they need to do to fix, and they can go do this all on their own. Typically, I charge $250 for this. It's invaluable. It's kind of like getting a hooking your car up to a diagnostics and letting and the mechanic telling you hey, this is what's wrong with your car. That's what this is. It's basically a diagnosis report that will tell you what you need to fix on your online presence, and so if anybody reaches out to me and wants to get that, it's typically $250. I'll do it for only $20. And all they have to do is put in the comments that they saw me on the CTO show and we'll get that taken care of for. 

0:39:01 - Mehmet
I really appreciate that, Michael. I will make sure that to put the full link in the episode description Now, before we end, is there anything, Michael, that you wished I had asked you. Did I miss anything? 

0:39:14 - Micael
Oh man, I don't. You know you've done a great job. You've really asked a lot of great questions, so I think we've covered just about everything there is for this session. You know, it's been really great, and I always like to outside of marketing. I always and I just posted something about this recently on my social is is, if you're a business owner and you're a startup, my biggest advice is to don't give up. Work hard, just do everything you can, and what I posted was that nobody's gonna work as hard as you are and nobody's gonna find as hard as you are for your business. So fight and keep working, don't give up. No, the imposter syndrome can pop into your head very easily, so don't let that happen. And so I would just say do that. And then, when you find people that are in your corner, that are people that are willing to fight with you and are willing to go to bat for you, I would embrace those people. Keep them very close, because those are good people to have in your corner. 

0:40:25 - Mehmet
Great advice and thank you for sharing this, Michael, with us today. And, by the way, this is for the audience. Guys, I don't ask this question to put anyone in bat in a bat seat. I just, you know, just in case I missed anything, and you know I keep it as a window for the guests to answer anything that they want to be asked. And, by the way, sometimes the guests they are liking it because they are just throwing some nice jokes over there. So, thank you, Michael, for the advice. You ended up with a very good advice, because this would be one of the questions I would have asked you what is your advice for startup founders and small business owners? So thank you for sharing that and this is for the audience, whether you are watching this or listening to us or your favorite podcasting platforms. 

Guys, I'm really enjoying, you know, reading the feedbacks you are sending to me and I'm really enjoying that. It clicked with you that I'm doing a mix of different topics. It's not like just tech. So it's tech. And you know today we talked about content, media and digital marketing, and you know we have a lot of other topics coming and you can go and see the previous episodes as well. So we're trying to build a library for people who are interested in startups and entrepreneurship so they can find a blend of topics over there. And if you are interested to be a guest on the show, don't hesitate to reach out to me so we can do the arrangement. Geographical equations are not an issue at all. Like Michael is in Tennessee, like I'm in Dubai, we had guests from Canada, Australia, UK, all over the world, all over the place. Still, I need to find guests in some countries. I'm very interested to talk to them, but that's that topic for another time. Thank you very much for tuning in and we'll meet again very soon. Thank you, bye-bye. 

Transcribed by https://podium.page