#251 Rishabh Chandra on Revolutionizing Task Management, SaaS Adoption and the Power of AI in SMEs

0:00:02 - Mehmet
Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO show with Mehmet Today. I'm very pleased joining me. Rishab Chandra Rishab, thank you very much for joining the show today. The way I love to do it, I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves, so the floor is yours. 

0:00:17 - Rishab
Thank you. Thank you so much, mehmet, for having me Absolute pleasure to be here. 

I am Rishab. I am the CTO and co-founder of Task Tracker Suite. You can visit us at tasktrackerio. We are a two year old startup. We are based out of India and the UAE. We have offices in New Delhi as well as in Dubai. We have over 7,000 businesses on our platform. A little about myself I've done my undergrad from Iowa State in the US and then my MBA at UMass. I worked in the US for around 7 years in SAS and technology building catastrophe modeling software, building software for malpractice insurance. At one point of time, and after making our big move we were part of, we found an IT company which we scaled up to about 85 employees and which was servicing clients across the globe. And that's when we found a problem statement on how can SME actually leverage technology and improve its efficiency and productivity, which eventually would lead to higher profits. So, in a nutshell, the aim was to build something which is simple, which is smart and can be adopted by anybody, irrespective of what your digital acumen is. Yeah, so that's me. 

0:02:01 - Mehmet
Yeah, great, and thank you again, Rishab, for being on the show today. Now I want to start because I'm very passionate about startups, and the whole idea of the show is to showcase people like yourself who develop such great products and services for the rest of us to use. So, if you can extend to me, where did you see you know how actually do you come up that I need to come up with tasks, trackerio. What was the trigger for you? And I know you're coming from both a technical and business background, so I'm sure that you have seen something missing in the market, so can you tell me a little bit about that? 

0:02:45 - Rishab
Sure. So actually, you know this dates back pre COVID. You know, like I was mentioning, you know we had a services company where we had about 85 people. You know, soon I realized that. You know we were struggling on how to manage our workforce. You know my day would begin. My first question would be has someone reported into office or not? Right, and I don't know. You know I. You know we still have these clunky biometrics that I had to wait for HR to come and plug it in and then download the information and eventually, by the time that information came, it was too late. You know you couldn't be waiting around. So, like you know, there has to be a better way to do this. 

But the bigger issue for you know me and my co founder, who's also my I'm actually my better half, me and her. You know we've always been a family owned business and we realized that we used to be just on the phone all day, you know, just doing follow ups, and that was something that you know became quite annoying because you're not focusing on business development. You know you just get stuck from the time you walk in to the time you leave. Either you're in meetings or you're following up with people and soon, you know, what I realized was that you know, this follow up was just not with the technical teams, but also with, say, your HR, say with your accounts, right with your admin, and some of these tasks were not you know which required a lot of you know, technical knowledge or know how, or or needed you know people to collaborate. They were just linear, straightforward tasks. So I'm like, okay, there has to be something better right for us sort of management, because literally, what we wanted was a reminder. 

And then we said, okay, you know I had worked in the US, you know enough, you know had interacted with a bunch of plants in Europe as well. And we went to some of the tools, which I will not name. But we went back to the traditional tools and we realized, you know, either those are for bug tracking or that's for project management and collaboration. Now think about it. Now think about an IT company which is based sort of in the fairly digitally literate, but at the same time, we had 50% of our team which wasn't as digitally literate. Right, and I would include myself as well. Right, might be really good in implementing and talking about technology, but when it actually came down to using it, it was fairly difficult and extremely, extremely expensive as well. That's the gap that we saw that we need a simple, linear tool which can be implemented in about 10 to 15 minutes. 

Next, and is, you know, smart enough to do, you know, task delegation? Then the story goes on. I got COVID, I was hospitalized and then I was like you know, I need to do something bigger. You know we need to empower people, and that's that's when we came back and we did a little more research and we developed the first version, which actually was a form which would send you an email and the next day it would send you another email telling you you had these tasks view. So so that that that was what you know we started off with. And then, you know, we got great traction. I still remember talking to my first 10 clients. You know we said, hey, just adopt it that, tell us what you think. 

0:06:08 - Mehmet
And yeah, absolutely. 

0:06:09 - Rishab
So in about 24 months now, we're sitting on 7000 businesses and of course, the product has evolved and now we have a sales track. 

0:06:18 - Mehmet
That's. That's great. And I loved one thing you mentioned Rishab. So you'd started very simple. I think your MVP was just a form and that email. And you know, because you are a CTO and you know this is the CTO show I always tell people I speak with keep it simple at the beginning. How it's important to keep it simple, Rishab. And then you know, tell me, okay, once I validate I'm sure that you have validated your idea using the form and you get your first 10 or so clients and then you decided, okay, I need to have this tech stack, or I need to have this tech stack, so take me into this journey. You know about how. First, you know, from your perspective, keeping it simple, how it helped you. And then, how did you choose to take with take, you know, the road with one specific tech stack? 

0:07:11 - Rishab
So remember, you will be surprised. That's the most difficult part, actually is to keep it simple, and I keep on telling myself, I keep on telling the team, sometimes I even I even tell my clients this right, we are a simple tool. You want the bells and the whistles and you want something noisy with you and you know where you can drag and drop and create your workflows. Is enough available out there? Right, we want to be your first step towards digitization. We want to take all your mom and pop businesses. We want to take all your SMEs and say you know, use technology which is simple, which is affordable and, you know, give you some great customer support. So that's one more thing that we do is you know we actually hand hold you to get implemented. Same thing we have done with our tech stack. You would be surprised my the whole application. You know we have used php code igniter as the tech stack. You know we did not go crazy. Right, we kept everything open source so that you know we don't get get into any sort of. You know we did not want to get licenses and we wanted to keep the costs low, but the most important was also to find the right resources when you're a startup, when you're standing out, you really don't need fancy stuff. And eventually, the way we have developed Task Tracker and Sales Tracker, the way it has evolved, it is just basically simple encrypted data which does back and forth on our cloud servers. So our tech stack is extremely, extremely simple. 

Sometimes I wish I could come and say that I'm using ROR and I'm using Python and we are on an Oracle database. Most recently, we used to just sit on GoDaddy I'm sure you heard of that. So we have kept our costs very low and now, of course, we migrated to AWS and in AWS also, what I tell people is keep your costs. People come and show me bills of 2,000,000 or 3,000,000 in rupees, 100,000 or 200,000. And I tell them hey, you need to use light sale boxes, which AWS really does not propagate, but it's there. 

So for a fixed cost, you get that same technology and then, as you scale and when you really need that power, then you need to leverage into it. So we always believe in keeping from our workflow to our technology very, very simple. Our apps are still in native because I find them the most stable. We actually burned our hands trying to use Flutter and things like that and we said, ok, we'll make one and then we'll migrate it over. But unfortunately that didn't work out, so we went back to native and that's what we use and we are extremely happy so far. 

0:10:01 - Mehmet
I'm very glad yeah, I'm very glad, Rishab, you mentioned this because take a ways for people who are listening or watching us, and Rishab is coming from a very deep technical background, so he kept it simple and because at the beginning you need to save the costs as much as possible till you have traction and don't build the whole feature set in day one, so keep it as simple as possible. Now, Rishab, like you, know it's a integration process. 

We keep on laughing, yeah, yeah. So I wanted to ask you you know, yeah, sure, now you talked about the problem and you talked about you know how you solve it out. Now, how do you think you know such product and you know from your experience you can deal with, I would say, markets which are highly digitally aware? Right, because you know our, you know mobile internet is becoming everyone has access to it. So was this an advantage for you? And you know, if you are planning to start again from the beginning, how much is this digital awareness important in the journey? 

0:11:31 - Rishab
See, digital awareness is extremely important. Of course, you know, when we enter into an economy which is digitally aware, it actually makes it much easier for us. No-transcript. One thing the only silver lining that came out of that deadly thing called COVID was that we realized that technology now needs to be harness for us to do business. The internet was already there. People were already on the web. Soon, you realize that, hey, if I could use technology and also manage my people then, rather, walking over to their desk Today, I think it is now not going to be work from home or work from office. It's always now going to be hybrid, and for that to succeed, you need technology which can be implemented. Then you come into the whole point that, okay, now that we have the technology, people are digitally aware of what is the next step. It now comes into the whole usability standpoint. 

When you're looking at, we look at an organization as a whole. We do not look at it as a technical team or a non-technical team. Everyone needs to harness technology for the business to grow. Your accounting is as important as your HR, as your developers, as your salespeople. Everyone is a key aspect in running a successful business. That's where we come in and use technology. You are digitally aware. 

Now we are going to give you a tool which is extremely affordable, very simple, very quick to get implemented and it starts giving you instant results. It works on both ends. You can be as digitally progressed as a country or as an economy, but you will always find the professional services businesses who are still always extremely skeptical about technology. One of the things that I follow is that every time I spoke to an IT person when I was on the other side of the table, the cost would be huge. The implementation would be extremely complicated. People would not like it, because, of course, no one likes change today. Eventually, we were told that for us to implement the tool, we would need one more person to manage it. How are you being efficient? 

0:13:56 - Mehmet
Why do you think that, Rishab? Out of curiosity, this question came to my mind. The surprise is, as you mentioned, usually we get this from people who are, like us, working in technology, not the end user. Why do you think that is? 

0:14:15 - Rishab
As a technocrat. We all like to wear a bravado. We are experts. I think that is one of the things that fuels this. That is what we are trying to change. We actually want to democratize the technical adoption. This could be a developed market like the UAE. It could be a developing market like India, or we can even go to say North America. One of the big geographies that we see is Latin America, which is again growing. 

A simple tool like WhatsApp is everyone is doing business on WhatsApp. Now can we leverage that? Can we come up with a solution which would sort of bridge the gap and provide some sort of benefits to the business? I have had a bunch of CTOs come and tell me hey, I can make this. I am like, please go ahead. Then they come back. They again take the trial and go. I think we get so torn like our clients come back and say, hey, I need this, I need that. I said we don't do that. We do ABC First. Do ABC well, do it for three years, believe me. Then you can move on to a whole bunch of places where people will do it from A to Z. You can do ADF, whatever the hell you want. You can create your workflows the way you like it. 

0:15:42 - Mehmet
Yeah, and if you allow me, recep, I want to add something here. I believe the biggest problem is still, for somehow we become so attached to the technology as technologists, you know, and we don't want to change. And you know, like this one, I tell everyone I work in consultancy roles, different companies over the year, and I saw this trend coming up Because we think once we choose a technology, it's a I don't want to call it a shame, but you know it's looked like oh. So that you are telling me I was wrong five years back. And I'm saying, no, I'm not telling you you were wrong five years back. 

I'm telling you that things changed and things now are being done in a different way. And this is how it's done properly today. And I'm not saying again, like, whatever you're using today, from whether it's a technology or you're using an ad hoc method, for example, like for tracking the tasks right, so this is one of the things that you do. So I'm telling you. I'm not telling you like, doing it in paper and pen is wrong, but it's slow and you know it can affect your customer satisfaction. So look, you have another solution here today. So, yeah, 100% agree with you on that. 

0:17:00 - Rishab
And I totally agree with you. I think we get so. Firstly, in what it becomes like a lack of a better term. It becomes like our own baby and you just want you know, you just want everyone to say, hey, you have the cutest baby. So you want everyone to say you have the best technology. And I'll just add one last point to that thought of yours is it's not that what we are doing today with not that also might become redundant, correct? Today you see any of the big, you know the big fours. You know from Apple to Google to Meta. They have all evolved with time. They are not what they were five years back. 

0:17:40 - Mehmet
Five years, I feel, is like you know now, you know maybe 20 years, that the way you know technology is changing and with AI and all the cool things which are happening, so yeah totally agree with me yeah, we'll come to that, and you know, because now, when I'm asking someone, what do you expect in the future, and you know, back in the days, we used to say, well, how do you expect things to become in the next five to ten years? And now we have to maybe ask how things are going to be changed in the 12 to 18 months. Now you mentioned WhatsApp. Right, you mentioned WhatsApp and this has attracted me. So are you able to integrate with WhatsApp and the other? You know messaging and communication tools? 

0:18:20 - Rishab
Yes, yes, we do so are you know that's that's what we do, so we actually automatically integrate into it. So, again, you know, with the and I think we have repeated this enough, but I just say it once in the interest of keeping it simple and adoptable a business, when they sign on, it automatically integrates into their WhatsApp number, irrespective of your location, and you get your notifications and your reminders on that. See, today the other issue you know. Now, drilling a little deeper is when you know a business is trying to automate what they do is they use a lot of WhatsApp groups. Right, I can challenge anybody, give a task in the morning and in the evening. If you can tell me, if it's an active group, that, what is the status, or even find that task. I know you can search, but it is extremely cumbersome. You know you don't even do that, you don't even remember correct. But but we still realize that WhatsApp is something which has become extremely invasive. It has huge adoptability. You know organizations, businesses, personal, professional, everything runs on WhatsApp today. So we have leveraged that to just sort of notify you and remind you. 

Then what we have also done is one of the problems that we have we are trying to solve is a lot of the times. We have told you know when, when, when your team member goes home, right in especially developing economies and especially if you are in the rural part, you know you do not, you might not have electricity, you might not able to charge your laptop, right, you might not be able to get internet, but your phone is one of the most connected devices, right, so you know. So that's how we are able to actually still reach that person and tell him hey, you need this work to be done. Or you know there is document which is extremely critical, which is due. It just comes on his WhatsApp at, you know, 9 am in the morning and you know I keep on joking, again, you know, with my clients is, you know, people can fight with the wives, they can fight with their partners, they can fight with their girlfriend, but no one ever fights with WhatsApp, right? 

0:20:28 - Mehmet
you are always on it no, no, yeah to your point. Just, you know, the other day I had some guests from the US and they were surprised. They, they were telling me guys, like you do all your business on WhatsApp. Because I said, yeah, like you know, sometimes even I remember myself a couple of years back replying to request for proposals over WhatsApp, right, and people say, how, how do you track it right? So it was a challenge for me, because you know email, you can always go search and, yeah, what's up, and other messaging tools make it more hard for tracking, but at the same time, it's so convenient because if I want from you, like, let's say, Rishab, ask you something very quickly, and I can just text you in just two seconds, literally, and I get my answer. 

Now one thing, one, one thing I want to ask you because you are in the SaaS economy, right, and SaaS economy is, you know, the dominant economy, especially when it comes to technology services. How are you seeing the adoption, both you know, in the UE and other developing economies? Because I'm not sure if you're seeing this, but what now? Still, when I talk to someone, they don't like it much, and the reason they don't like it much is not the cost or the price tag of the service per month, but it's the whole idea that you know I'm using something which is not owned by me, so what are you seeing in in that space, Rishab? 

0:22:05 - Rishab
So you're extremely right again. You know people have those reservations right. So now we have done two things. We offer annual plans, and this is something that we have been actually inspired by Microsoft. You know, if you now go by your MS office, you need to pay it for the year. You get all the apps on it. It's up to you. You use Word or Excel or you know whatever else PowerPoint they don't ask you how much you're using it. You just pay it once a year and you're done. That's one of the things that we have adopted. So people like that right now. It's literally that you pay once and then you're done, especially in the developing economies. You know that's what we are doing because you know the whole credit card and recurring payments can become an issue. People are very wary, so we tell them you just need to pay us once and then next year we'll come back to you and ask if you still want to continue or not. 

The second part, like you rightly said, is that people like okay, I don't own this. What about my data? You know people are extremely sensitive about their data, the way they should be, and we give them an option to export that at, you know, at their will, so that actually just takes care of those two issues, so that, you know, actually puts them at rest. That, hey, you know, I really just need to choose my filters and I can export this whole thing into an excel and my data is with me, number one. And you know, if I don't want to have this headache of paying every month and you know people coming to me at you know, at various points of time you know we just offer them an annual plan and I think that has worked for us in the developing economy as well as in the UAE as well. So we say, okay, you can take our trial. We even give you extension if it's actually needed and we actually think that the client is genuine, and then they can just make jellyfish. 

0:23:54 - Mehmet
I saw Rishab some and, by the way, I saw it on a global level. Still some vendors or some providers, that's called them this way they offer a lifetime license. Do you think they do this is just for satisfying the needs of such demanding customer or they do this just for the cash flow? 

0:24:21 - Rishab
I think they do it for. I don't think it's a cash flow issue because you know you are just getting paid once, right? So it's not that you're going to get that money again and again. I think it for me, unfortunately. I found those no offense to anybody. I found that as a sales gimmick because soon you'll realize that they would charge you more than that. Hey, we've got a newer version now, right. Now you have to pay for the upgrade, or after two years they come out with an updated version which you have to go by the additional license. 

Usually what happens is that if you have a lifetime license, that version will work and with the changing technology, after three years or five years that version would not work. And, more importantly, your needs as a business changes, right? I don't think you use Task Tracker, io forever or you would use any other tool that you say for your marketing or your sales forever, right? You might grow as an organization. You might grow into a different market where some of this would not work. Your dynamics of your business might change. So I am not a big proponent of I find it as a sales gimmick. 

0:25:34 - Mehmet
Yeah, 100%. And when people come and ask me about my opinion in SaaS in general, I tell them at the beginning yeah, of course, because I come from the other side of the table as well. I was the customer and I want to buy this license key, I want to see this license key, I want to have control of it. But from personal experience, when I shifted from buying a car to a leasing model, then I started to discover my benefits and I think the SaaS model is successful because, first, you are not tied to forever, as you said, you can change. Second, it's more flexible. Third, usually, like majority of the time, this license fee it has inside the support or maybe they would add some small cap on top of it to have it. 

So I believe maybe we need to it's my opinion maybe we need to educate procurement more about the SaaS model, because procurement unfortunately and I'm talking about not all of them, but majority of the time still they have this mentality of yeah, I want to buy perpetual licenses and then I want to pay. I want to pay you yearly support. And I always go and tell them yeah, I get to what you're coming from. But actually, if we do the calculation on pen and paper. If you go with subscription model, you're going to be saving on the long run 3, 4, 5 years down the road you'll be saving more right. 

0:27:07 - Rishab
Trisha, right, number one you save more. Plus, you have the latest and the greatest at all times right. Third, today it is in my interest to make sure that anyone who holds my license and is paying me annually or monthly or quarterly has the best experience, because tomorrow they have the option of not paying me right. So that actually keeps people like us on the edge, making sure that the customer satisfied and the product is superior and definitely delivers more than what it promises, right? So I think these are softer benefits that people don't realize. I have brought a few of these where they say, hey, we'll convert your word document into PDF forever and we'll unzip it Soon. I realized that I upgraded my phone or upgraded my laptop or it would not work on a Mac and you have no support because the money is already gone and they are like, yeah, you know, when we give it to you, it worked and that's about it. 

0:28:05 - Mehmet
Yeah, and for me, you know, even on the personal level, the nice thing is that I can control. So if one month I feel I don't need to use this tool, so I can stop it or pause it, which you know majority of the providers they give you this option so you can pause your subscription, maybe for two months, because you're gonna go on vacation or, you know, maybe now we are focusing on something else, so this is something you cannot do it when you buy the license, which is 100% true. Now you touch base the shop couple of minutes back on AI and you know what's happening in that space. So, from both perspective, regarding you know the domain that you focus on, which is tracking tasks and so on, and in general and again I'm not asking you on long term you know, like, what are we seeing in this space and are you also using AI in your product as well? Yes, are you planning? 

0:28:56 - Rishab
to yeah, so we are. Actually. We have just completed our model, which is actually in testing right now and getting integrated with AWS Number one. I feel you know AI is a great you know it's the next big thing. It's a great tech revolution. I don't want to get into that. I think a lot of people talk about that. There's enough noise, specifically, you know, to talking about in. What we do is basically we are using AI to make our tool smarter. 

Now, what the tool does is we have developed an engine on its third version. Based on the tasks that you're entering, it starts learning the sort of tasks an organization puts it in a way, creates sort of a template for you, and now when you log in, and as soon as you type in one word, you know the engine automatically knows what's you know what's most likely the task that you're going to assign, and and it just does it on your behalf. You know what you know. So the cure you know what we're trying to cure is also use a laziness, because we are in the business that if I don't delegate correctly, I would not get the benefits right. So now how can I make this delegation easy? You know so. So hence we are using AI plus. 

We see SMEs today using AI to help improve their efficiency. We are seeing SMEs use AI for better customer insights. We are seeing SMEs using AI to actually do better analysis as well for them, because that's always been a challenge that you know, when you're a team of about 20 25 people, you know it's hard to sort of get a data analyst who's sitting there and giving you reports, but today and AI can help you do that. 

0:30:38 - Mehmet
So we definitely see a huge revolution in this space with you know, with AI coming and just making the whole usability so much easier, right yeah, 100% and, as you mentioned, like it's it is, it is the thing now regarding the AI and, yeah, and I'm happy you mentioned about SMEs because you know on personal level I'm biased towards SMEs because people they forget always that SMEs makes you know huge chunk of any economy right and especially in our, yeah, especially in our areas, like I know in India. 

It's the same story here in the UAE, it's the same story across the Gulf region. It's the same story and you know I love to to support them and I'm happy that you know. You mentioned SMEs multiple times and you focus on SMEs now, as we are coming a little bit to an end, bishop, it's something not technology related but maybe startup-ish related. I would say I've seen you know like you took the approach of bootstrapping the business and you didn't take the approach of you know reaching like big funds and so on. First of all, why do you think this was the right choice for you? And, second, for fellow startups and fellow founders, if you can tell them, you know, shed the light, I would say, on this part, because I I receive a lot, you know, as, as someone who's into the startup now consultancy, and I work with a lot of others, you know I receive, you know these pitch decks full of you know many things and they are asking for the millions. 

0:32:14 - Rishab
What you can tell us regarding this see, I think the the easiest way to answer is, at the end of the day, what are we building? Yes, all entrepreneurs have a lot of passion, right, all entrepreneurs have a lot of drive. But can you build a business? That's what needs to be the question that you need to ask yourself pretty much every day, correct? Is someone buying my solution? Correct? If someone buys a solution, then they will pay for it, correct? Yes, you need capital upfront, like any other business word. That's when you go get investors. And that's what we did. We bootstrapped, we built an MVP, we bought people on board and then we said hey, you know, right now I'm growing at 5x. With a little bit of capital infusion, I can grow to 10x. That's what I tell everybody that. 

You know, sometimes money can be extremely difficult to manage as well. You know you can scale. But if you actually look at your unit economics or you go back and start looking at your financials, you will see that. You know my customer acquisition. You know I'm spending $100 to acquire a customer while I only get a dollar on the revenue. Right, and and that's, and that's a big problem. We have investors. We have taken money from outside, but we have been extremely conscientious of doing so. 

Now, you know, then I'll now switch gears and talk about, say, today, you know, task Tracker becomes, you know, one of the biggest, hottest startups, and, and you know, and and Autlesane comes and says I want to. You know, acquire you after the amount of hard work and sacrifices that we founders do, you know you, you know you do need to, you know you do want a good exit. Now, if you start diluting on day one up front, you know by the end of it, you know you will not be left with much. And and the most important thing is, at the end of the day, you know, form an entrepreneur, it is my vision that I'm building out, good or bad, or ugly or the worst. You know we are not getting into that debate, but at the end of the day, it's my vision. 

And when you get too, many people involved, then you start getting stretched into all these different spaces. So I'm one of those people that you know we like to follow our gut and our vision and, and, and we have conviction that that's the path, you know, that we want to follow. So so that is why you know what I tell startups is. You know, yes, take some seed money. You know, yes, we all have our own expenses. You know, personal and professional. But but funding is not the be all and end. 

0:35:00 - Mehmet
All right, if your business does well, the money will flow 100% and thank you for sharing this and my just to complete or to continue on what you mentioned, Rishab, and, by the way, for the sake of transparency, like I am not a startup founder, I am now a startup. I was not a startup, but I work with a lot of startups and the thing I because I read and I see the most successful ones is exactly the ones who did what you just mentioned. So there are some terms. Maybe we can cover them into another episode or maybe on a webinar or something like this, but the thing that Rishab mentioned now they are key. First, know what you are solving. Be passionate about solving this problem for your customer. Price it well in the marketplace. Calculate what they call it, the burn rate, your CAC, which is Customer Acquisition Cost, versus the price that you are selling, and then do all the calculation backwards. Then see at what point, if you want to scale as you mentioned, richard, because you took these funds not for the sake of being having the funds, but to scale the business you scale in just very short time to more than 7,000 customers, which is brilliant actually. Thank you for sharing this. 

Then, what I wanted to say follow your gut, as Richard mentioned and you will be there. Don't be and unfortunately, I know I understand the doom and gloom which is out there and what you see people raising Series A, series B, these big money. Unfortunately, we see that still 80% or 90%. Even sometime they don't do it to the year two or year three. So calculate your steps and don't fall into the trap. It's okay, I know that finding funds is not easy, even the seed one and the pre-seed one. This is why, also, part of what I'm trying to do is to change this, but be on the path similar to what Richard have done. I love this story, richard, really I enjoyed listening to this from you. Now, before we close, anything you wished I had asked you or any point you want to tell us before we end. 

0:37:22 - Rishab
I think it's just been a great conversation. I just wanted to thank you for having me on the show. I think the only thing I would end with is let's not complicate technology. My request to everybody is keep it simple, keep it adoptable. There is so much we can do. Sometimes going after the smaller, the lower end of the pyramid is difficult, but it is extremely rewarding because that's a huge market across the globe, irrespective of it's a developing, developed, not so developed. If you can give a solution which actually resonates with people, I strongly feel it would be a super hit. Again, thank you so much for having me. 

0:38:20 - Mehmet
It was my pleasure, richard, to have you today. I learned a lot, also myself, the guys. I advised you to check tastrackerio and see the work that Richard and his team have done over there. Again, thank you, richard, very much for being here today. As usual, this is how we end the show. I hope you enjoyed, whether you're listening or watching this. I would love to hear your feedback and keep the feedbacks coming. As you are seeing lately, we are trying to a little bit mix the topics, from the technical stuff to the startup mentality, and we are discussing health. We're discussing multiple topics. Please let me know if you feel there's a topic that we should shed light on. I would love to hear Also if you're interested yourself to be a guest on the show. Don't hesitate If you have a story to share. You are a startup founder yourself and you have built something and you think you deserve to let the others know about it also. Reach out to me, as usual. Thank you very much for tuning in. We'll meet again very soon. Thank you, bye-bye. 

Transcribed by https://podium.page