#290 Automating Success: A Discussion on SMB Digital Empowerment with Pete Romano

0:00:03 - Mehmet Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the City of Show with Mehmet. Today I'm very pleased to have with me Pete Romano. Pete, the way I love to do it is I keep to my guests to introduce themselves. So tell us a little bit more about yourself and what you do. 0:00:17 - Pete Hey, mehmet, it's really great to be on here with you and everybody watching, I don't know. I'm just like any other modern entrepreneur trying to make their way in this world. I approach my day with a sense of almost justice for the small business owner, where I want all small business owners to have the benefits of the larger companies that they're competing against, in the sense that if they just had this one little turn of phrase or this one little piece of information, the entire trajectory of their business can be in a better place, and so that's what I'm focused on every single day. Personally, I like bike riding, I like good food and I like playing guitar and drums on my time off, and so between those hobbies and business, that can turn into a full day for me. 0:01:30 - Mehmet Thank you again, pete, for being here, and actually you know you focus on something which is also close to my heart, Talking about small medium businesses, and part of why I wanted to do this show is to bring people like yourself, pete, who also share the same vision that everyone deserves to have the power that the big guys they have. So, as much as I can, I'm doing this. I'm hopefully empowering them by bringing thought leaders like yourself. Now, before diving into these areas of business for small medium businesses and how they can enhance their operations, and all this little thing that I always ask my guests because, out of curiosity, I know you mentioned you played the guitar, right, and I know you had also some journey in the world of music and film and so on. So what brought you into this part of dealing with also technology and what have influenced that shift for you? 0:02:44 - Pete Oh well, like they say, it's a slippery slope, right, you get involved in something and then, before you know it, you're being sucked in. But yeah, it is quite a leap if you just look at it like that. My early career we were working on I was a music producer and engineer. I was actually a music major in college. I got out I was working for ad agencies producing soundtracks and producing jingles for TV commercials. That led me into working on films and independent movie trailers, which was a really interesting time working on with actors and some really A-level, a-list people, and the best experience that the takeaway from that is just being exposed and being in the same room, working with the best of the best. And when you work with the best people in a given space, what you realize is that they're not really the best because they're that much more talented or that much more creative at something. What makes them the best is that they have a framework to work within and that they have a process to work within. And so I like to point back at my early training, working in top agencies and working with top artists and top actors, to see that there's a mindset to approaching your work at that point and some of that mindset is that you don't fall in love with your first idea or you try to experiment, fitting the square peg in the round hole, because you never know what's going to happen. You might find something interesting or something beautiful. And so, moving on from that career, I started my own agency in and around New York City doing web development, doing social media, a heavy emphasis on video production. There was always this creative element to what we were doing. I would approach marketing really from the creative side. I was a creative director at heart, I suppose, and then I had to team up with other people who were really good at the digital marketing and the strategy and figuring that stuff out. And so we became a pretty good agency again serving the small business community. But what I recognized and how I got into software development, was I recognized that the better I would do my marketing job for a client, sometimes the worse off my client would be. Because if you just think about it, if take into an extreme any small business, if you just take a typical bakery I don't know just a simple picture of bakery, and they're kind of built for a certain traffic flow, they're kind of built for a certain amount of customers, let's say per hour, a quantity of customers per hour, and let's just say that that's 15 or 20, and they could service those well. But if you bring in a marketer and that marketer tunes it all up and turns up the volume on different things, and now all of a sudden they're asked to do 100 customers per hour out of nowhere, or even a small increase to 25 or 30, you're going to start to see their systems break. And so that caused me to really become interested in operations and business flow. I picked up CRMs at the time and just really started to push those systems to the limit and, being the stubborn entrepreneur that I am the stubborn person maybe I just kept hitting roadblocks with those tools, and so we decided that let's just build our own. Let's not be beholden to the software companies with their arbitrary limits on various things or the arbitrary tables or the arbitrary pricing models that they come up with. I wanted a tool that would allow me to be the operations artist that I wanted to be without limitation. 0:06:55 - Mehmet I love this Pete, especially mentioning that entrepreneurs are usually all of entrepreneurs, including myself as well. They are stubborn by nature, I would say, so I love that one. 0:07:08 - Pete Unemployable. 0:07:10 - Mehmet Exactly exactly, and even if they are the rebels all the time, not accepting things as it is Now. I know, pete, for the fact that you are and this is also like something close to my heart, as I was telling you, you are an advocate of digital empowerment, right? So, in your opinion, what are the key elements that businesses, especially we are focusing today on small and medium sized ones that they should focus on to, let's say, truly get the best or to harness the power of digital technology? 0:07:53 - Pete Well, it's later in the day for you, it's very early for me. We're in different time zones, so before I answer that, I need to take a sip of coffee here. Yeah, so we've stumbled upon a framework that we feel is the best way that works for us, right? We don't want to be too boisterous, but the framework that we start to really think about is, when it comes to digital empowerment, is that anything that you do in your business is one time is worth. It's not worth doing that one time, unless you expect it to be done a thousand times. And if it's going to be done a thousand times, then you better have the most fluid way of doing that one thing. And that one thing could be something as let's just take something as simple as data mining, like manual data mining, and if you're a business and you want to get prospects off the internet and you need for your purposes, you need to get a certain amount of attributes of a prospect and you're handing that off to an assistant, if they're going to do a repetitive task a thousand times, if that task takes three minutes versus six minutes, well, that's a huge gap. When you do it a thousand times, it becomes exponentially more time consuming, versus three minutes, versus a minute and a half. And so when you start to look at that, in business, every task worth doing is worth doing thousands and thousands of times, and every task worth doing ought to be as honed and streamlined as possible. And when you start to get into that mindset and you go through your day self-reflecting on what you're doing as tasks, and then reflecting when you hand off tasks to your staff or your outsourced folks, then you start to really recognize that wow, I almost handed off something that was going to take a thousand minutes and I can get that down to 200 minutes. If they just click the browser this way, or if they don't open 100 windows, or if they're clicking in and out and clicking in and out, clicking in and out, if they just arrange that task in one way, they're going to save a lot of time. But that's just the beginning. After you start to recognize that you really need to observe every moment of your business's day. To me, digital empowerment means that you've really automated everything in your business that ought to be automated, and by that what I mean is that I had the luxury of building a CRM, and that forced me to think about my business as a piece of software, because I was literally building the software to power my business. And every business owner should think about their business as a piece of software, meaning if A happens, then go to B, but if B happens in a certain way, skip C, go directly to D, and if D doesn't happen, send this reminder about B not happening or B hey, you forgot to do this thing. You forgot to do this thing. And so when we work with clients, to us digital empowerment means we've constructed the entire customer journey in a whiteboard and we understand exactly how things will work, from step one to step two to step three to step four, all the way through the end of a process. And when you have that really honed in and dialed in, as we say, then you really have the ultimate scalable business. 0:12:05 - Mehmet That's fantastic, Pete, but I have I'm kind of here putting myself in the shoes of the business owner. So usually when we ask business owners about describing their processes, we figure out that actually they didn't do this and this could be the first obstacle before we can even start digitizing or automating. So what is the best approach actually to have a proper implementation of this journey? You know, like where usually would you start before taking in any action, whether it's implementing a new software or maybe implementing a technology? So where me as a business owner, where should I start? 0:12:59 - Pete Yeah, well, I love that question. So in business, we're all guilty of being lost in the forest and seeing trees right in front of us and running into the trees, and just basically every day is a series of challenges that a business owner is reacting to each and every day. That's what I find is that most business owners, most businesses, are reacting to the day's problems in real time. And so the way that I like to start is recognize that in so many things, we're just we're just doing things wrong, like, let's give ourselves the credit to be okay with the fact that we've been doing things wrong and we need to come up with a different way. And every business owner, especially when they even consciously begin to think of this problem, they have their cart and their horses way back behind them and they're pulling all of their horses with their cart. And so most business owners, when they want to fix this problem, they'll start to Google around and they'll find some software and then they'll say, oh well, this has good features, or they'll start some free trial and they'll get into that software and then nothing will happen for months and months and months. They'll just put it away, the free trial ends and so on. But even if they do commit to that software, they're making a fatal mistake because what they're doing is they're taking their business and they're trying to shoehorn it in to a piece of software that wasn't really developed with their business in mind Because, like you said, they haven't gone through this wireframing process of figuring out A to B, b to C, all the way through Z. My approach and how we like to do is just get the business to clear their mind, clear their deck, and that's hard because every day there's this challenge, this challenge, this challenge. Let's try to put all of that out of our heads and let's try to focus on exactly how does a customer journey start? Okay, well, let's break that down. A customer journey starts you could name them you run an ad and the customer journey starts with the customer seeing an ad on Facebook, seeing an ad in Google Okay. Or the customer journey starts when most small businesses are doing networking you meet at a networking event. Or the customer journey starts when the prospect books on your calendar booker. Or the customer journey starts when they get to your website and they fill out a form Okay, now you start by. Okay, is that moment of entry as optimal from an objective perspective and a subjective perspective. Is it as clear, concise, messaging-wise, functionally-wise, okay. If so, let's go on to the next step. What happens when they fill out that website form? What happens when they book on your calendar? What happens when you hand them that card? Is the right call to action there? Okay, good. So then once they get into your database, okay, well, how do we make this engagement as sticky as possible? How do we put our best foot forward? How do we show up to the party in our best outfit, with our car washed and our you know no mustard stains on our shirt? And if you can break your business down into these digestible steps, really honing things down into their most basic particles of steps, you're going to be, you know, that's our best approach to breaking these challenges down. 0:17:06 - Mehmet That's really like a very, I would say, detailed view and I agree with you on that Pete Another part. So we figured out this, we figured out you know how you know actually our operations works. Now I think the second that you touched on it in the previous question, which is data collection, right? So how much is the importance? And you know, when we say data, people think always you know like zeros and ones, and you know. But actually what I mean here by data, like are they collecting enough information about what they are doing within the business? So whether it's like transaction wise, whether it's like, I don't know, it could be anything. So can you enlighten us more about you know what kind of data we're talking about and why it's important to have this data so we can take action out of it? 0:18:04 - Pete Yeah, well, if you're a small business, social media has kind of enabled, but also disabled small businesses. So many people rely on the Facebooks and the TikToks and they provide a certain amount of data to you, they provide reports and they provide certain metrics, but really those tools are there for their own benefit, not really for your benefit. You don't own any of that data. And all of that data your friends list, your LinkedIn connections all of that can be taken away from you with things that are out of your control, an innocuous community violation or something that you said, maybe, that they didn't like, and that can be taken away from you. And so your goal as a business must be to get people into your own systems and to get them to opt into your lists, so that you can get them off of those platforms and get them in to your own environment, where you have full control over things and you can't have this data that we're talking about taken away from you. And so well, what are we talking about in terms of data? Well, simple things like your contact list is your most valuable thing. Your entire business can completely fail, and if you are forced to have to do it all again, if you had your contact list of previously happy customers from a previous business. You can spin that up in a new environment and you can start your email marketing. You could start your calling, and so, on the most basic level, you have to have your customers. You have to have their names, their email addresses, their phone numbers and then you could start to expand from there. If their address, their physical address, matters, that's great. Their business category, their website, their social media URLs, and so you should be doing your best as a business to build out as thorough of a profile of every one of your customers that you possibly could build, and with some of these new technologies, I'm really excited to build certain things. We've started working on a process that imagine you're at a networking event and you're meeting 20 people, and then every person comes back from a networking event with a stack of cards like this, and then they get chucked into the corner and nothing ever comes of that. Well, what a wasted opportunity. That is right. So we have a technology we built that we can scan the card and it recognizes all the text, and that's not revolutionary. Optical character recognition has been around, but we're dropping that into the CRM and we're using automation tools to go to that LinkedIn profile, extract data, bring it back to the CRM, go to that person's website automatically analyze the website, bring that data about what their business is all about back to the CRM, eliminating hours and hours and hours of manual data entry of things that you just wouldn't do because a small business might not have the time or the resources, but things you ought to be doing if a human was doing it, but now you definitely ought to be doing it because you can automate the entire process. 0:21:56 - Mehmet Absolutely. And, by the way, speaking of business cards, I opted for a long time. Now I don't use the ones, I use the ones with RFID in them. So because I think it's a better way Now. But one thing I love this approach and I'm again putting myself in the place of business owners. Now, personally, I don't want to say pushbacks or I don't want to say like objections, but sometimes people they don't like change, right, people resist change all the time. So what you have seen as successful strategies to tie whatever vision you're trying to put in front of these SMBs, to show them what will be the benefit. So in other words, like how us you me? There are a lot of people there and this is for the business owners to listen to this and understand what are like the ROI or the KPIs that usually they need to focus on to see how they have benefited from this transition, because I know, like not everyone loves change. They need to really see a compelling reason to take these steps. So usually, what we can add here to the SMBs owners small, medium business owners to make them see what will happen in the future or, let's say, see the results in the future. 0:23:34 - Pete Well, the how can I answer that? The way that I'm hearing your question is if there's a business owner that is stubbornly clinging to some kind of previous process, is there some kind of way to convince them that they need to stop being stubborn and embrace change? And I would argue, maybe what I would say to that person because it's you know, facts don't. What is that phrase like, story sell and facts don't. I forget what that phrase is, but I would say that there's no convincing of a stubborn person and you ought not to maybe manipulate them. Except maybe I would say, at the moment, if I'm realizing that somebody's getting pushback, giving pushback for adopting some kind of new change, I might just say to them that, hey, technology and automation is not gonna take your job away, but a business employing technology and automation is certainly going to take your job away, and so the pace of change and the rate at which technology can begin to take over the menial tasks of humans is just gonna turn these stubborn people into dinosaurs quicker and quicker, and if a person doesn't see that, then they're gonna go extinct, and that's just the natural course of entropy and living in this universe that we do is that the organisms that adopt and see more innovative ways to do things. Those are the ones that survive. There's no convincing an amoeba that they should fetch for biomass in a faster kind of way. But maybe you're, for example, putting all of that aside. If I was to not be cynical and not wanna make the person kind of feel bad at that moment by saying something snarky, maybe I would point to things like we were working with a client where it took them 40 minutes to make a quote, to get a quote for a complex sale of a home accessory and an external and outdoor home accessory, and we built them a system where they can get those quotes done in maybe five to six minutes. And what is that? Maybe a 95% reduction in time. And so if you can show a company that, just using that one metric, that, hey, you've got 10 sales people and each week they are spending eight hours making quotes for, yeah, 10 prospects and now you can get all of those quotes done in less than an hour, well, what is that? Free them up to do with those other seven hours. Mr entrepreneur, that's your job to figure out. Well, you got seven more hours to play with per sales person. Imagine the get them calling people, get them going to a networking event or, god forbid, let them go home and be with their family and be so you start. Automation really starts to open up all sorts of interesting possibilities of how the employees of a business can begin to live better lives. 0:27:26 - Mehmet I get the answer that I wanted from you, pete, and I was not trying to push the limits, but, you know, I wanted an expert to say exactly the phrase that you mentioned and I did this on purpose, by the way Is like, if I am a business owner and I don't always seek ways for enhancing my business, whether it's from revenue perspective, whether it's from increasing my customer base perspective or Increasing my maybe profits margin, whatever it is so someone else gonna do this and I will be behind. So, and exactly this is, you know, the thing that you just explained to us, and you know you're talking about automation makes me very excited, because this is also one of the Of the things that I can say in 2023, maybe the most war that I repeated on the podcast, I repeated everywhere if you're not doing automation, you're losing big time, and including myself, by the way, and you know the power of automation, and now With, with the factor of AI, and I think you would agree with me, pete, that you know, like businesses even small business they have access to things like they never had access to before, right, right, so so, using you know these, these two combinations, what do you think you know we have ahead of us but At the same time, how these businesses, they can still be giving the personalized touch to their customers, because I know also you care about the customer experience. So how we can do the balance between putting all these technologies but at the same time Not letting the customer feel that he's only treated by, let's say, bots and I'll give you an example. 0:29:20 - Pete I would spin it differently. I would say that an example I like using is Every service business starts with a discovery call, and that discovery call is like a calendar event on a on a calendar, right. Two people are more agree to meet on a zoom or in person At a specific date, at a specific time, at a specific location, right? And so how do we, how do most people experience that, that kind of sequence? Well, most people experience that by booking with a potential vendor that you're hiring, that you want to hire, and what does that vendor do? Well, they throw it on a Google calendar and you, as the customer, what do you get? You get one of the most boring Waste of email you know we get. We get so much email already, but you get the most boring email confirmation just filling up your inbox with a wasted email confirmation, like you know what time you booked. Why do I got a look at this boring email just filling up my box with, like Google meet this, google meet that. And so we would all agree that that's not very personal, that's, that's not a personal touch. What's personal about that? Nothing. But instead, if you're starting to think about the customer journey and you're starting to recognize that this is a. This is something that happens over and over again, these discovery meetings, and you want to provide that personal touch. Well, when we set up a client with their discovery call customer experiences, we have an interface where the our customers go in, they put the discovery meeting in for their prospect and what that prospect experiences is a beautiful email confirmation. It has a beautiful welcome note at the top. It has beautiful branding and graphics at the top. It has what to do to prepare for that meeting. You know you come prepared with this kind of question, come prepared with that kind of question. It will have the headshot and the LinkedIn and a little personal note from the sales person. And so you're already engendering knowledge, likeness and trustworthiness with the sales person just upon booking this. And then maybe, if the business is in a position, we might include an attached lead magnet like hey, by the way, since you're booking this discovery call, here's a great PDF we developed on such and such for you to keep you busy and to get your mind thinking, because that does so many things. It sets you up as different from the competition. It provides branding. It gives you an opportunity to communicate, messaging it's selling you before you even have to get on the zoom, and that time between booking that discovery session and showing up to that session could be two days, five days, seven days, ten days, fourteen days. Those fourteen days of time are time where your competitors are all also communicating back to this client, because this client is not just booking with you. They're probably taking a discovery with somebody else and somebody else and somebody else. So if you can fill up that time with what we call a high value touch points that are not inundating them but sending you apart from the competition, you're going to have an extreme advantage over the people that are just sending that really boring Google Calendar confirmation. 0:33:15 - Mehmet I love this speed because and this is why I always tell people like, leverage the technology, but you have the ability of putting your personal touch in it. I have a habit which is a little bit. People tell me it's a little bit weird. I'm sure also you face it yourself, pete, as well. All of us, we need to do outreach. Sometimes we get contacted by people who are doing outreach as well One of the things as much as I can, especially the LinkedIn ones I like to reply to them, even though I'm not interested, because I know how it feels when you send someone and you are receiving. So I'm a little bit biased. Nevertheless, the other day I started to see people copy pasting, as is from chat GPT. Immediately I started to reply to that gentleman who sent me the note. I said next time, proof, read what chat GPT wrote you, because you copied high first name in brackets. I said you could have put the extra mile of customizing this. I said if you had a system in place to your point, if you use the CRM and then you use kind of automations I was trying to be the one who is offering the consulting service. I said you could have done it in a much better way, that maybe I could have been interested in your offer. Anyway, I don't need your offer To your point. I think this is something too much underrated. When it comes to when we leverage technology, whether it's for outreach or even sending note to people automatically, I love this stuff because this is how we can show how technology actually help us to make our business more human, let's say, interacting with people. Now, on the long run, pete, how are you seeing the future of leveraging these technologies? This is first. Second thing, I want to ask you as well about the future of SMBs in general, like small medium businesses, because with all the advancement in technology now we are seeing more and more people opting for having being solopreneurs and offering like kind of a easygoing business. Are you seeing this trend is the future or no? It's just like something that it's now passing and then people will go back to the normal I would say proper business, set up with employees and so on. 0:36:12 - Pete Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm super qualified to maybe comment on the trends of people who it sounds like you're describing lifestyle businesses. Those aren't necessarily the clients that we deal with. We're dealing with businesses that are 10 to 200 employees, but it does seem that there is a lot of chatter about this side hustle thing and people that you would never expect they have a full-time job and they're doing this kind of side hustle. My advice would be that, even if you're in the more traditional side of things, if you're a W2 employee that you begin to explore, it's easier than ever to set up a business. There's people that specialize. Maybe you scroll through them on TikTok and you think that they're kind of spammy, but there's kind of a point to what they're saying. It's so easy if you just use this tool for content and this tool for posting and this tool for video editing, and these things come through my feed too. It sounds kind of spammy, but it is kind of right. There's a tool. Individuals are more empowered than ever to do things themselves but at the same time, we really benefit from diversity of thought, I believe, and having people around you, because, at least in my experience, one person doesn't really have the skill set to do everything, I would say. Even if those people were inclined to say, well, I'm going to be a solopreneur with a lifestyle business, I would still try to figure out, well, how do you pair yourself with one or two people that has a similar vision, that wants to lead that lifestyle but can contribute in a way to fill in the nooks and crannies of where your skill set may be lacking? That would be my takeaway on that. 0:38:45 - Mehmet I agree with you. There's a lot of noise, especially on X Twitter previously. It's unbelievable. The other day I was super angry. I don't have that much followers there. I focus mainly on LinkedIn, but sometimes I write things there. I said every time I'm going to see someone who's just showing off their Stripe screenshots or these kinds of things that you mentioned, this will be the only tool that you would need to do this. I'm going to block actually, I'm going to mute them. I don't want to see this anymore, because what I have seen in 2023, I've seen people who get in depression because of this. I understand where they are coming from, but it's not something for everyone. To your point still. This is why, in business, we have people who understand sales, we have people who understand marketing, we have people who are technical. Maybe, if you have a point, if your life's not, please go ahead. 0:40:00 - Pete I was going to say. But also you said that people get depressed when they see other people bragging about the results that they're getting or the sale. People just lie. There's the marketers out there that are pitching marketing services on TikTok and they'll just make up some statistic. Oh, this is how I got some client from nothing to $300,000 in sales in six months. And what are you? You're just making stuff up, and they do that because it's so easy to make that stuff up, because you might as well be, because who's going to fact check you? And so there are a lot of disingenuous people on there. I'll say it like this just like on Facebook and on these other more lifestyle types of social media platforms, people are just putting up their best life and they put up the happiest pictures of their family and they put up, and it's all just this false narrative that people like to create, and so don't get swept up in the hype. 0:41:17 - Mehmet Focus on what you need to focus on and cleaning up your house, and things will be great 100% and advice for people here, and I know maybe it's not related to what we were discussing before, but just because we opened the topic and this is why I like about the podcast, actually Like we can get this, but it's related and I get related to this in a moment. There are one book and one guy who I advise everyone to follow. So there's a book called the Millionaire Fast Lane by MJD Macro, and he describes well that every time you see someone who's promising you to get in rich and he's asking you for a money, you are actually his way or her way to get rich. I highly advise everyone to read this book. And the second thing I'm a fan of Navarra Vicant as well, the famous entrepreneur, and he says you need to build your own thing, whether it's a software, maybe it's a content, but you need to put your sweat on the table so you can get this. And this is back to our point Someone like you, pete, you have done fantastic job in getting into all this journey of entrepreneurship. And then you have put Segwik, which is your company, and I want you, pete, as we are close to that, and to tell us what is your vision for Segwik. Where do you want to take it? 0:42:58 - Pete Yeah, so our dream, like I said earlier, is that all small businesses deserve an edge and that we want Segwik to be a tool, like you said, of digital empowerment, where any business owner who wants to put in the work will have the tools to make sure that that work is multiplied exponentially as much as possible. And so that if you have a business owner that is going to make wise decisions and they set about this course, that once they make that decision their efforts will be as easily multiplied as possible and they won't be limited by unnecessary road blocks or gatekeeping. And so we want to spread Segwik to all sectors of the world, of the business community, and empower those who want that power. 0:44:05 - Mehmet That's a very ambitious and I wish you all the luck with this. And because, back to where we started, I believe as well that all businesses from all sides of the day deserve to have the right access to the tools and to the brains like us here to be able to thrive and get to the next level. Always, I tell people, maybe the big companies have access to the big force and they put all this money to get these strategies, and small businesses they think, oh, we cannot afford this. Actually, there are a lot of people and companies like what you have done, pete, that people can reach out and they can seek help, and still, they can do it on budget. This is why I would ask you, pete, to tell us where people can find more about you and about your company. 0:45:03 - Pete Yeah, so you can find us on LinkedIn. Maybe when this podcast is posted you can find us there, or you could visit segwikcom s-e-g-w-i-kcom. Any of information about what we do and the value we provide and you could book a personal meeting with me. It would be the best time spent that day. 0:45:24 - Mehmet That's perfect. I will make sure that all the links are in the podcast show notes. Pete any final thoughts or anything that I missed. To ask you maybe and you want to just end this podcast today? 0:45:41 - Pete Yeah, I don't know. I would just say the world owes you nothing and go out and be the best that you can be, and that's it. 0:45:59 - Mehmet Great. Really. I appreciate your time today, pete, and all the insights that you put for us, and I think if anyone is listening or watching this and they are a business owner small, medium business owner I think they would benefit a lot out of it, and I advise you to check on Pete's companies. I checked it before and I've seen a lot of nice things done over there. So thank you, pete, for sharing your experience with us. As usual, this is how I end my episodes. So for the people who are here the first time so maybe you discovered this podcast today and you just decided to listen to this episode. So thank you very much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed. If you are listening on your favorite podcasting platform, please don't forget to subscribe. If you are watching us on YouTube, again, thank you. Please subscribe to the channel, share it with your friends and colleagues and if you are one of the fans that keep coming and keep sending me their feedbacks and messages, thank you very much for all the support that you show. I really appreciate it and, as usually I am every time as equal to action to everyone. If you have an idea, if you are on a mission, if you are not able to get a space onto the PR area out there, but you are on a mission or you have an idea, you build something and you want to show it. Maybe I'm not the biggest media outlet over there, but I promise you that we have a lot of people who come and keep following the show, so don't hesitate to reach out to me. I would make sure that I would make time. You know, pete is in the US, I'm in Dubai. Time zones is not a difference. We can arrange for that, and thank you for tuning in. We will meet again in a new episode. Thank you, and I'll see you there.