#293 The Charismatic Connection: Building Rapport and Influence in Tech with Sebastian Walls

0:00:01 - Mehmet
Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the City of Show with Mehmet. I have today a special guest joining me from Scotland, sebastian. Thank you very much for being on the show today. The way I love to do it is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves, and I have a theory no one can introduce someone better than themselves, so the floor is yours. 

0:00:21 - Sebastian
Oh, wow, okay, so I've got to make a really good first impression here. So, yes, I actually used to be one of the most part of one of the most hated groups in the UK. I was a used car salesman and while throughout my years of being a used car salesman, I learned the art of charisma, and now I'm coming to you today as a charisma coach, speaking to your audience and looking to share some insight and some valuable information. 

0:00:49 - Mehmet
Welcome to the show, sebastian. And is it still this happening? People they don't love use like salespeople. Who works in the car industry, is that true? Yeah, anyway. 

0:01:02 - Sebastian
I got a bit of a bad rap. I actually remember when my mum I first told my mum that I was going to become a car salesman and she thought I was going to be this sort of smooth talking, slicked hair, back, Rolex, wearing granny robbing salesman that she'd seen on TV. I think she'd probably been watched the Wilful Wall Street too many times. 

0:01:23 - Mehmet
Yeah, probably, but, jokes aside, it's one of the best jobs. I mean not in the car dealership only, but I mean being a salesman is something very noble if you do it the proper way. But today with you, sebastian, and maybe the audience will say, okay, what's going on, why we have someone on the CTO show talking about charisma. Of course, I have my own theory, but what I would love to do with you today, sebastian, like first let's put some definitions Right, so let's say what is charisma, and then we can take it further from there. 

0:02:05 - Sebastian
Great question what is? What is charisma? You know, the Greeks at first coined the phrase charisma. They actually described it as a divine gift, which I think is just beautiful, but it actually has given it a bit of a bad reputation. That charisma is this thing that's untangible, it's something that you can't describe. It's something that you know when you look at somebody you can tell when they've got it but you just can't quite put it into words and essentially what I've been able to do is take charisma, define it and put it down, and essentially charisma is a breakdown of soft skills that, when applied, has magical effects, and that is what charisma is. 

0:02:52 - Mehmet
Now the second question I would ask you, sebastian, before we again deep dive more into it Is it something that we get born with it or is it something that we acquire, you know, by experience, maybe by training, maybe by following certain steps, or I don't know formulas, whatever Great, Another great question. So there's been a lot of misconceptions about charisma. 

0:03:20 - Sebastian
One of the things that I think is really important is that you know, you know. You know about charisma. One of the key ones is what you've just mentioned. There is that can charisma be taught? Can it be learned? Can you acquire it? And the quick answer to that is absolutely. Charisma is the breakdown of soft skills. Soft skills like making a good first impression, like storytelling, holding yourself in a conversation, being able to build rapport, being able to influence and persuade others, being able to use your words, your language and your body language to make other people feel good and to align to your way of thinking. Now, in the course, there's going to be people who are born naturally maybe a little bit better at one of those skills. There's absolutely every way where somebody can learn those skills and then apply it to become charismatic. 

0:04:14 - Mehmet
That's cool. So where I can start? Let's say, I want to have this charisma right. So is there like a test people they do Like, is it like someone that should like? How do you call someone charismatic? Let me put it this way then, more straightforward question Like what should there be some traits for the person who is charismatic right? So how we can spot these guys. 

0:04:47 - Sebastian
Well, let me put a question back at you. What do you think charisma is? 

0:04:52 - Mehmet
Okay, that's a very good question. So now, removing what, I put it into framing like what other people want us to think charisma is. 

So in my opinion, charisma is someone who, the moment they enter a place, they get the attention on that, and that is a mix between, of course, how they look and I'm not saying about like handsome guy or beautiful woman or something like this, but I mean you feel that there's a soul here, so they are present. Second, the way they talk and the way, I would say, they communicate with people Like. For me, this is someone who's charismatic. Now let's hear your view. 

0:05:40 - Sebastian
You know, it's great that first story that you said there about somebody walking into a room. We would sort of describe that as a magnetic presence. You know somebody that you look at and you just gravitate to. Essentially, what we believe is charismatic people are people who are effective communicators, who can be exceptional leaders, people who are able to convey themselves with competence and assertiveness, people who are able to use their language to persuade and influence other people. 

You know, I think the misconception is to be charismatic you have to be that person at the party who's joking, he's laughing and he's telling brilliant stories and everybody wants to listen to. But that kind of brings these misconceptions that if you're introverted, if you're somebody who likes to get down into the tech and into the detail and maybe sit on their laptop and cold all day, you can't be charismatic. But it's just not true. Introverts can tell amazing stories, they can be fantastic listeners, they're able to communicate concisely, and these are all things that are really important. You know, what I would say to you is where does charisma come into the business world and in the tech world? Well, let's just say you are working at a startup or you have that million-dollar idea. You're going to have to convince somebody to either buy from you, to invest in you, to work for you, these skills of being able to influence and persuade. Is that charisma? It's about creating the loyalty and the desire to be part of whatever it is you're doing, and you can do that through charisma. 

0:07:31 - Mehmet
I'm happy that you brought this, sebastian, because actually this is one of the things I want to start asking you about while we explore more about charisma. Now, you mentioned one use case, which is startup founders and, as I was telling you before we started our session today or our recording today, that I have a passion for startups and I believe you know, majority of the time, the problem is if you don't have this ability to communicate in a right way, you know, so people can understand what you're saying. So this is where I believe charisma is key. And when we say charisma, again to the definition that we agreed on, not the one, and I love, sebastian, the example you gave like this guy in the party, or like he's in a gathering and everyone, you know he's joking, you know, like, sorry for the term, but you know I consider them like I don't know, like let's keep it like safe mode. I would say I like to call some of them, not all of them. Some of them are really charismatic, but we have a lot of charlatans, right, so, yeah, so people who they try, you know you feel they are trying to grab the attention to them instead of like spontaneously, people get attracted to them. 

Now let's go back to the charisma and leadership Now, whether it's someone who holds a, you know, like leadership title or managerial title, whatever it is in a company working in tech or for someone in the startup. So what are like some of the strategies you can share with us for these tech leaders or startup founders to maintain, you know this, clear and impactful, let's say, communication with their teams, right? And the other question I would ask you, sebastian, which is related to this and how, in today's world everyone talks about also like remote, hybrid world, so can we also apply this? Even we are not coming, because I just said like when someone comes to the room, but what if someone comes to the zoom, not to the room? 

0:09:54 - Sebastian
Great questions, great questions. So let's take that and let's make it something a little bit more practical. I, like you, said you like startups, so let's focus on that one just for a little bit. You know, when I work with startup founders in the tech industry, the challenge that you have is a lot of them are fantastic at the hard skills, the coding, the development, the product development or whatever it could be. The challenge is that's only actually a really small part of the bigger picture and I'm sorry to pop the bubble here, but actually 85% of your financial success which is why a majority of people start their own business isn't down to your hard skills, how good a coder you are or how good you are at developing a product. It all comes down to your soft skills, your personality, your ability to communicate. So if you're somebody there who's like, well, I'm in this business and I can't make any more money, then actually getting more qualifications, doing more courses, probably not going to help you, but actually investing your time and energy into developing your soft skills, your ability to communicate, is actually going to exponentially take you up. So let's put it back again into practical terms your startup founder, chances are you're going to have to sell your product to somebody, and a huge part of selling your product to somebody is being able to build rapport with that person. So a few ways that we can do that is through listening. 

Now, that might sound really obvious, but the challenge you have is when you've got an idea that you're so excited about and you're so nervous about the rejection, you're actually not listening. You're just going in there wanting to get all the information that you have out your head of why this is the million dollar idea out in front of this poor person who is already overwhelmed by whatever it is you're saying. So, actually actively listening. Now, active listening and hearing are two very different things. Hearing is a physical thing where you're literally listening to the words that they're saying. Active listening is the concept of using your eyes, your brain and your ears. You're not just looking at that person, you're looking at their body language, you're listening out to their tone and you're thinking about what are the words that they're saying, what do they mean behind the words that they're saying, and so that's a really important skill to have when it comes to building rapport and be able to influence somebody, because if you're listening, then you can actually take your product, find out the features, the functions and the benefits of it and then apply it to all the information that you've been listening to. 

The next element is asking good questions, asking open questions we all know about. But the problem is most people, 99% of the time, don't build rapport and get to that level of charisma because they stay in that small talking phase. And there's four phases. There's the small talk, which is that God, the traffic's a bit busy today, or oh, did you see the weather? Did you watch the football game at the weekend? You know that's a small talk, there's nothing wrong with it, but people usually just either stay in it or they avoid it altogether. You have to get in there, to get deeper with somebody. So you have the small talk. 

The next level is fact sharing. That's when I say to you, what do you do for a living? And then you give me some information about you and I say, well, I do this for a living. You're sharing facts between each other. The next level that you want to go down to is the common grounds. What are the things that you have in common with this person? 

Now, there could be a lot of instances where you have nothing in common with a person. A great example is football. I could say oh, I love football. Mime, did you watch the football game at the weekend? And you didn't. 

You hate football, you don't like it, you know nothing about it. But you don't want to say that to me because you're gonna suck the wind out of the conversation and leave me feeling like, you know, a bit deflated. But what am I actually bonding over? I'm bonding over a passion, I'm bonding over an interest. So that's an opportunity for somebody to go. Well, you know, I know nothing about football, but actually you seem very passionate about it. What is it that you love so much about it? Or that's when you go. Well, I didn't watch the football, but I love rugby, I love basketball, I love video games, and you bring that into it. You know, you're just bonding over the fact that you're passionate about something. 

And then the last level is having an emotional connection, getting the person to open up and share personal thoughts, feelings and opinions, and that's the four levels that you really want to be drilling down into. Some people go a little bit of the way, some people don't go all the way, and that's the challenge when people are building rapport, trying to get people to be charismatic Because, ultimately, if you can get the person talking about themselves, they will leave that conversation feeling like they've had the best conversation of their lives. I mean, mime, I'm gonna throw it over at you. There's been a time where I was at a party and someone said to me God, you've been speaking to that person for a long time. What did you actually speak about? And I was like you know what? I can't actually remember, but when I looked back at it, they were just able to get me to open up and start talking about myself. So I'll throw it over to you. Can you tell me some interactions, some things that you've gone through that you felt were particularly charismatic? 

0:15:18 - Mehmet
I felt other people charismatic. You mean yeah? 

yeah yeah, yeah, for me, you know it happens, because the nature of my work, I have to talk to a lot of people. It doesn't happen every day, but, yeah, like sometimes you have. You know, I go to a meeting, for example, and it happens several times, and it's not necessarily that we ask about football and hobbies and all this stuff, but and there are very rare occasions where, because you know, I'm wearing the consultant hat, so I'm going to talk, right, but I found myself, you know, in a situation where I had to stop speaking because the other person is passionately, for example, it happened to me talking about, for example, history, which happened. That is a topic that I like as well, right, and I like to talk about history. And yeah, like, exactly the same feeling like, and then we look to the watch and said, oh my God, like we were supposed to meet for one hour and here we go like a two and a half hours and we're talking, and then even we forget about what was the purpose of the meeting actually in the first place. So this is something happens to me not very often, but when it happens, it happens with people that you know they are really smart, you know, we can call them charismatic. 

So, yeah, especially in the field that I am in, and I think people who work in startups and in tech they face these things as well, especially if they have to interact, like with a lot of other stakeholders. But yeah, definitely. And the only thing I want to ask is, sebastian and I think people should not take it. They should take it in a positive way actually so if you are able to get the other person to take the conversation from you while you're talking, if you get the power of listening and then let them express themselves, actually you end up by getting more information that what you need, especially if you work. Again, we started talking about sales, but let's be honest, everyone sells, even the tech guy who's sitting behind the screen and typing on the keyboard. At the end of the day, he's doing something that he's gonna show to his colleagues, to his manager, and say, hey, see what I have done and this is selling right. So this is why you know I love this topic. I'm passionate about this topic, sebastian. 

0:17:55 - Sebastian
I can see it, but I feel like this is just to be able to agree with each other, because, ultimately, whether you're a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, you know a sales manager of an organization, or you're a mother that's trying to convince her toddler to get dressed for school, you're persuading, you're influencing, you're trying to do it and I love the example you said there because you sell yourself. Whether you're going for a job promotion, a salary increase, it's not just the startups, it can absolutely. We don't think of charisma as a productivity tool. That's the thing that's interesting, because when we're charismatic and people like us, people in nature naturally want to do more for us. So when we send that person an email, you will want to make sure that your email is on the top of their pile, and that means they respond back to you quicker. They'll do the tasks that you asked them to do quicker. So that's why leaders need to start looking at charisma as a real tool within the corporate world. 

0:18:52 - Mehmet
And let us talk about Sebastian, the benefits of doing this. So tell me about, like, if I am someone sitting in the C-suite or maybe, again, I'm an executive, so how this will help me. Of course, we talk about the person living, but also like for my business, like what could have you know as impact on my team, on the productivity, like if you can share something from real life examples as well. 

0:19:23 - Sebastian
Yeah, of course, of course. So the key things here when you're looking at developing your charisma, what are the benefits that you're going to have? Well, the immediate benefit is you're going to become more memorable. That's the first thing. So I've worked with C-suite executives, and they are in board meetings, they're in networking events and they are speaking with their chairman, and so many times they say they've met the person already and then they meet them for a second time and they're reintroducing themselves and they have that awkward moment where the other person doesn't remember them. The second thing is you're going to be given a lot more opportunities because people like you, people want to work with you. People are going to be naturally gravitating to your personality, your owner, whatever you want to call it. That could be other executives, it could be job opportunities, it could be clients wanting to work with you and, lastly, we talked about elements of being a productivity tool as well. 

Now, one thing I'll give you a real-life example. Somebody that I was working with had a meeting with a minister within Saudi Arabia and what they were finding is that, when they were putting together some of the techniques that we're going to be talking about, like something as simple as making good eye contact with somebody. When you make eye contact with somebody, it releases a chemical in the brain called oxytocin it's also known as the bonding hormone. That actually, when we make eye contact with somebody, we actually feel a closeness or fondness, or a relationship starts to build from there. And he was having this meeting with the minister within Saudi Arabia and he was just making good eye contact. And I go up to the point where in the meeting, the minister wasn't even asking anyone else in the room a question. He was asking a question but he was looking directly at my client because he felt that trust, he felt the confidence and competence that he was doing. But only thing that he was changing was that he was making good eye contact with the person and then he came away feeling like a million dollars. 

But it can improve your competence, your confidence, and can convey information that's you're not going to be saying with your words. So there's lots of benefits to having charisma, you know. It can make you more attractive, as you said. It can make you more proficient. It can make you a leader that people aspire to work with and be with and feel loyal towards. It can increase your performance. 

They did lots of studies within USA about. You know what do people? Are more people more motivated by? Are they motivated by just getting in doing a good work? Are they motivated by getting a cash incentive? Or actually are they motivated by charismatic leaders? And what was fascinating was charismatic leaders have such a massive impact on the performance of your team, where they feel inspired. 

You know, if you're let's just say you're working in an organization, a startup let's take startups again where you know you're kind of it's firefighting. Let's be honest, you know, and you might have staff members there who you're going to need to dig deep those days when it's five o'clock on a Friday and you're going to need them to dig deep to get a presentation ready for Monday, or you're going to need them to stay back late or come in early or work hard or whatever it could be, and you don't have the money to drop on them to go. Here's a more salary or here's a bigger incentive. What else can you offer them? It's about harnessing your charisma so that they feel passionate, they feel loyalty, they understand the vision. All this can help you excel in your business. 

0:22:57 - Mehmet
Absolutely, I agree with you on that, sebastien, and I have seen, I mean, how you know this personality of the founder or even the business owner. Whatever you know the domain is, has a great, I would say you know like, if I might say it like influence on not only the business success but also on, you know, the overall satisfaction of the employees also as well. Right, so, when you work with someone who can spread this like, you can feel it in the air. 

0:23:37 - Sebastian
Right so, absolutely Now yeah, I'll, just just because you've reminded me of something there. You know, let's just say okay, you're sitting there just now listening to this podcast. You're thinking, okay, how do I, how do I actually go about this? 

0:23:50 - Mehmet
Right. 

0:23:51 - Sebastian
One of the key skills that I would say is probably overlooked when it comes to charisma and as a business leader, as an entrepreneur, is your ability to tell good stories. So you know how often have we sat in meetings and everyone goes okay, guys, this week we really need to get a nickel down, we need to do X, y and Z because we've got this deadline on Monday, we've got this deadline on Tuesday, whatever it could be. Well, logically, I understand the importance of that I'm not really feeling inspired to really dig deep and really put the passion in there, to really take the company to the next level or take my job with that project or whatever. At the same time, if I was a client and I was listening to somebody and they were like, oh, I've got this great idea, you know, it's the, you know Uber for whatever it could be. Or if I was in a board meeting as a C level executive and I'm going through the P and L for that particular quarter, it's not inspiring, it's not motivating, it's not there. 

So how do we do it? You can do that through good storytelling. That's how you can do it. Now that could be through a customer success story. You know, rather than saying you know we need to do this or need to do that, or for a founder, it's all about that starting story. What's driving you to do this? Who was the person that you thought of that was doing this and that you know and tried to put it into a story? And the same with your presentations as your CEO. When you're given these presentations, you'll become more memorable. You'll find people will like you and buy into your ideas if you can package it as a story. And that's the same with your networking or your job interview or whatever it could be 100% storytelling. 

0:25:31 - Mehmet
We covered that, by the way, a lot of times on the show Like it's one of the. I would not say I can say it's the most important one, in my opinion, for especially startup founders, entrepreneurs, because this is how they can relate to whatever they are doing Now. When I was preparing for today, sebastian, I've seen that you spoken about the dangers of a combination, and this combination is the combination of money, power, charisma in entrepreneurship, and you know this phrase, you know, caught my eyes and you know I start to think what could be bad. I want to hear from you actually. 

0:26:20 - Sebastian
Well, actually you took away from me. I actually thought this might be the first thing we might disagree on, but when I do these podcasts, when I speak to people, the question I always hear much is charisma is evil. Because if you look at people throughout history and there's been notoriously evil or bad people who use their charisma to get what they want to manipulate people the best one you would say is that all cult leaders have charisma and I've studied it and they do have charisma. There's no getting around that. But actually I put charisma in the same camp as money and power and science, that all this can be used for good and it can be used for evil. So if you're someone there who's like, well, I don't want to learn anything about charisma because it's evil, I don't want to touch it. Well, we'll go okay. You can't look at the individual and say, okay, it's now evil. 

You have to look at the process, these cult leaders, what is the process that they're using and can you actually apply it to your own situation, with the caveat being that you're doing it in a genuine and authentic way. You're doing it with the best interests of the person in front of you. So you know that's not convincing someone to buy something that they don't need or they don't want to buy. It's not getting someone to invest in something they don't need or they don't want to and some kind of manipulating them into it. Charisma is basically learning about the other person finding it, building a relationship with them and then fitting your product to the needs and wants of what they have. 

So that's the nature of it. But, yeah, it's a really interesting one because you know, power can have so many great things. Money can bring so many great things. You can give generously to charities, you can invest in life-changing businesses that are going to make a huge impact on the world. But at the same time, money can also bribe people. It can also be used to, you know, change the minds of politicians. So you know all these things can have their pros and cons with it, but I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the sort of evil and good side of Charisma. 

0:28:30 - Mehmet
I think we have similar thoughts here, because, like anything else like even, by the way, even in technology and if you think about technology, it's like a something which is an abstract thing, right so, but it still can be used for good or be used for evil, and like any other skill or soft skill that you might have by nature, or you learn it again, you can use it both ways. And I don't think Charisma is different than these, because and to your point, also because I told you like I love history. So, yes, like all the bad guys in history, they were having good Charisma, actually, because they had this skill of talking in a way that is so persuasive that you know people, they believe that these guys are saying something true, or they convince them, they managed to convince them to do things which are wrong. And if I think about the business world, or as our friends in the US, they say, oh boy, you know, like I have seen it a lot of times, and because you have and sometimes let me tell you this, sebastian, I think sometimes there is you might disagree now with me, maybe you will agree, I don't know there is something I call fake Charisma, and the fake charisma comes from the fact that sometimes you get into a place, not by hard war, but I don't know somehow. 

You know we're not deeply much in this, but and then you start to put the charisma on top of. You know, this leadership position that you've got or this position that you've got, not necessarily you are a C-suite or a founder, but you start to fake it and you know you fake the charisma. And this is where you know I don't like it. I don't like the word charisma, if this is what it means. It means these type of guys. I don't know if you would agree me on this. 

0:30:42 - Sebastian
Yeah, I think I understand what you're saying. For me, look, everything has got to be unhinged. The pillar of everything has to be in a genuine and authentic. That's the key to everything. Humans are actually really good lie detectors. You know. We see it with our guts. You know the gut instinct, so we can tell when someone's putting it on and then you just describe it there. I can tell when someone's being fake. 

The challenge you have in the corporate world there's a system called Pi, p-i-e. The P stands for performance, and this is down to reasons why people get promoted within their work. Performance only accounts to like 10% of the reasons why people get a promotion. So if you're working very hard and like learning your good skills and trying to get better at your job, it actually counts as very little to the reason why people get promoted. 

The I stands for image, that is, how do people perceive you? 

Do people perceive you as competent? 

Do they see you as a person who gets results? Do they see you as somebody who's confident, as somebody who does a good job? And the E stands for exposure, which is does the people who make the decisions know who you are? I mean, let's think about the times when we worked in the corporate world. I mean, I can think of loads of times where I was like you know, I've seen this person all the time, but what do they actually do? Like I see this person walking around or I see that team over there and nobody actually knows what they do. So if that person came to you and said I want to work with you, I'd be thinking I don't even know what you do, I don't know if you're any good, I don't know what you are. 

Where is actually? The person who perhaps puts more emphasis on their image and the exposure has got a better chance of getting a promotion and in a perfect world it'd be the person who works the hardest and it would be the person who is the best at their job. But unfortunately, we don't live in the perfect world and there's people who do claim career ladders, who are incompetent but are incredibly persuasive, and that's supposed to where we start to get into the great area. So what I'm trying to do is give people who are fantastic at their job, got great technical skills, and I hate to see them missing out on opportunities because they've just put so much emphasis, they've studied so much, they've learned so much, but they just can't. You know, when they get in front of a decision maker, how do they actually persuade them that they're the right person, or how do they convey that they are trustworthy immediately when they're in front of somebody? And these are the issues that people are facing. 

0:33:10 - Mehmet
Yeah, that's a very valid point of view, I would say. Now, as we're almost coming to an end, sebastian, for today, I want to ask you about a topic that I know that you are experts also in it, like which is, you know, a mix of two things that you have done. So today, people talk about having their personal brand right, and leaders, they are encouraged like no time before to leverage like social media platform and it depends on what you're trying to do. So some people might go to LinkedIn because, if you are like in something more into business related, some people they go to TikTok, instagram, whatever. Some people they do all of these. So, from your point of view, like, how important is first to establish this personal brand, to increase this charisma? And the second thing is, what is the role the social media platform can play to, I would say, enhance their charismatic presence and let people around them, whether internal teams or like the broader community, get engaged with them. 

0:34:33 - Sebastian
Fantastic question. So I'll start with your second one. First, how much does social media play in someone's charisma and personal brand? I would say it's a huge part of it, mainly because once you've already met with someone, you've done the hard work, you know, you've learned about them, you've listened to them, you've spoke to them all this sort of stuff. What do people do immediately when they leave that? They're going to Google you, they're going to search you, you're going to find, you know a little bit more about you, and your digital footprint has to reflect the image that you're portraying in the real world as best as you can. That means sticking to being authentic, it's sticking to trying to build rapport with people, all this sort of stuff. But what I would say is to go one step further is that when people are looking at people up on charisma and when they're searching for people, a lot of what they say is like are they likeable? I like this person. 

I think of the few YouTubers or people of influence that I follow on social media and once I might not know them personally. I feel like I've got a real image of them because perhaps they responded to me in the comment section or when I sent them a DM, they responded back to me. Or that when they're on camera making some content, they're delivering it with confidence, they're making eye contact with the camera so that we feel this connection here. So it plays a huge part in terms of you know your charisma, but even if you're on things like this like a podcast, you know how persuasive are you. So all these little things that have like a social media presence will actually build up and actually convey an image of you. So, for example, if you met somebody and online they're portraying this super you know, rolex wear and Lamborghini driving, smooth talking guru. But actually when you get to see them in real life and it all falls down, well, then the whole thing falls like a house of cards. 

So that's what I would say in relation to should you be emphasizing on social media? I would be saying yes, I would say pick a platform that best suits your personality. For example, not everybody wants to be on camera and so maybe YouTube isn't for them. Some people like writing just short snippets and that's where they go to LinkedIn, or they want to talk about this particular subject, whatever it is. But actually really focus on how you write and how you produce content and keep those key areas of being persuasive, picking the language that you're using and how you're conveying that. That's what I would say to that. But charisma plays a huge part in your presence, you know, let's just look at people who are. You know, I'm trying to think of celebrities. You know I don't know any celebrities, but I don't know the way in the rock Johnson. I don't know Ryan Reynolds, I don't know Robert Downey Jr, but I can tell that they have this charisma. 

0:37:22 - Mehmet
But how they portray themselves online in movies and interviews and everything like such, 100% and, if you know, I never interacted with this guy, but I think one of the people who built charisma in public, if the term is true, is Gary V. Right, so, gary V, you know the way when I look at his journey and people ask me but he's not ready to take. Yeah, that's true, but I believe what this guy have done is he showed people two things. First, he built charisma in public literally because, you know, when he started, almost no one knew about him and he kept enhancing. You know his style and the way he do it and then he ended up. 

But I see him like he replies to comments to your point. You can feel he's a genuine guy, you know, and when you ask anyone who've met him face to face, they say the same thing, while you have to your point a lot of these people that they are everywhere, you know, posting everywhere, and then when you want to just even not ask them something, you just want to maybe give them a compliment, maybe you want to write a small note to them. They ghost you and I think there's. I can understand. Sometimes maybe you are like a very famous guy or something. Listen, dude, you can go hire a VA that at least can reply to these the apps right. So I think this is kind of respect in my opinion. So this is my two cents on this one. 

0:39:07 - Sebastian
No, I think it's really, and you actually just to go one step further there with Gary Vee. Let's take that as example. So why is Gary Vee so charismatic? I would say, through analyzing him, one of the things that I get really much is that when we talk about charisma, we talk about smiling, we talk about being positive, whilst Gary Vee doesn't necessarily smile every bit of content. You can tell that he's passionate, and he's passionate and attractive because his passion and his energy and his enthusiasm to something is very likable and infectious, because when other people are positive, we start to feel positive as well. So that actually even happens over online. The second thing is he's quite animated. 

He uses lots of hand gestures. Hand gestures are a great tool to build trust with people. Think of a time when you have a toddler and they have something behind their back and they're like what have you got there? And they're like, oh, nothing, nothing, you go, I don't trust you. So you use lots of hand gestures. It doesn't mean you need to be like Gary Vee and doing jazz hands, but that's something you can incorporate into your communication. Lastly, what he does is he's got great eye contact, when I see him with people, when he interacts with people online, I can tell that he's just focused, looking at the person, really trying to make the person feel like he's in the moment he's present. But even online he's looking at the camera a lot and he's kind of unapologetically authentic. What you see is what you get, which is also a huge part of charisma as well 100%. 

0:40:32 - Mehmet
Now, sebastian, final question for you where people can find more about you and get your help on. I like what you've wrote here like art of charisma, how they can learn more about that as well. 

0:40:45 - Sebastian
Yeah, yeah, so they can learn the art of charisma on my website. It's just art of charisma. You can just Google that straight away. If you want to get more snackable, bite-sized tips, just go to my TikTok page. It's just art of charisma. On TikTok we have over 20,000 followers. We have over a million views and so people get real value from the TikTok page. But if you're somebody who's a CC executive you're looking at trying to get some more opportunities, then the website is the best place to go. Or if you don't have any confidence in your insurer and you just want a quick question, you can always send me an email it's just artofch charisma at outlookcom. 

0:41:23 - Mehmet
Great. I will make sure I put all these in the show notes, sebastian. I really enjoyed this episode today with you. I love when we have these. I call them real human conversations and interactions. So thank you for being a guest on the show today, and this is usually the way how I end every episode. 

So, if you came by chance to know about this podcast and it's the first time for you here thank you for passing by and I hope you liked what you listened to or, if you are watching this, what you have seen. If so, please don't forget to subscribe. We are on all podcasting platform Apple Podcast, spotify and all the others so subscribe, share it with your friends and colleagues, and if you are one of the loyal fans that keep coming, thank you for keep coming here and keep sending me your feedbacks, keep sending me your suggestions. Even anything that you don't like, don't be shy. Send it. Tell me please. We want this to be enhanced. Do this, do that. 

I love to hear feedbacks a lot. And finally, if you are up to something really different, you have a topic that we never brought before and you think it's aligned with what we do here on this podcast, or you are a startup founder and no one is giving you the space to go and talk about the next thing that you are about to do. Also reach out. I would be more than happy to discuss this. So thank you very much for tuning in. We'll meet again very soon.