#294 Exploring Decentralized AI and Blockchain's Future with Roberto Capodieci

0:00:01 - Mehmet
Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO show with Maman Today. I'm very pleased joining me Roberto. Roberto, the way I love to do it is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves. So the floor is yours. 

0:00:15 - Roberto
Sure. So hello everybody, and thanks to you for having me in your show. My name is Roberto Capodieci. I'm Italian, because nobody's perfect. I've been living outside Italy for most of my life, in the United States for about 12 years. I've been in Southeast Asia for about 20 years. I've always been working in IT, running my own company. I'm all on the technical side rather than the business side, so the role of the CTO is really what feeds my person. I've been spending the last 10 plus years into decentralization so blockchain, p2p and I and I can see that and I'm currently involved in two big projects. One is for AI, to decentralize AI, and one is a printware that is ethical. It's a very interesting project, so that's about me. 

0:01:05 - Mehmet
Thank you very much, roberto, for being on the show, and you know I have kind of I would say a little bit biased, especially if someone coming from IT background like myself, when we are on the show. So you know I enjoy it. You can see it even on my face. So the first thing, you know we have a lot to cover today, but let's start from something. Of course, I had many guests on the show that we talk about, but I love to hear you know different opinions and also this is good, I think, for the audience as well, and you've been, you know, in this space, roberto, yourself in the decentralization and blockchain for quite some time. So how have you seen the evolution of blockchain from its early stages and how do you consider, what do you consider the most significant milestone that we have reached? 

0:02:05 - Roberto
today. Okay, thanks, a very good question. We are in an information era, right? We come out of the industrial era before, and so each era as well, I call it industrial age and now I'm the information age. So we started digitizing content, we started transferring digitally from a place to another with the first network models, and now we enter a phase where we need to decentralize things. So I think the blockchain has had the first. 

First of all, it would never have been noticed if it wasn't the solution or something related to money, because people pay attention to money. I guess if a blockchain was invented for hairdressers, probably nobody would know it today. But, using great occurrences, just the tip of the iceberg of what blockchain do. The biggest step, the biggest innovation that it broke, is to bring unicity in the digital world. So when before, with an MP3, I can make 10 copies of the MP3 and there are 10 identical copies, nobody knows which is original. Now I cannot do that anymore if there is a blockchain behind. 

Simple example, I cannot make a copy of my Bitcoin and give you a copy of my Bitcoin, because in that case, the Bitcoin will be worth zero. Once I transfer you the Bitcoin, I don't have it anymore, and this is a simple concept, but in the terms of digital content, this is a huge revolution. Practically, there is a unicity, singularity in the digital world, and this can be applied to so many industries. So that's why the concept of tokenization of assets in a secure way is actually one trending topic around blockchain. The application of blockchain for use cases that goes outside the simple cryptocurrency are increasing, but yet there is no culture to really understand and accept in the large public the use of this technology and, at the end of the day, probably the large public shouldn't even know. People don't understand what goes behind the app that they're using on their phone. 

A few days ago, there was a kid using Facebook in his phone, so I said there is Internet so no, I don't have Internet. There is Instagram. He's ignoring that. In order to function and to be connected, the Internet connection is essential. This probably is going to happen with blockchain, which is a technology. It's now a financial use case and use cases use it and the people who use the application use it. They are decentralized without even knowing. That's what I think is what happened. 

0:04:47 - Mehmet
You mentioned a couple of concerns that people sometimes, when they hear the word blockchain, their mind goes to cryptocurrency and all this At some stage and this is what we start to see when we also tied the blockchain to Web3. I'm curious, roberto, to see different views. As I was telling you, some voices, especially by the end of last year, in 2023, they were saying Web3 failed and people were trying to invent solutions for problems that are not necessarily that they exist. Do you think this is true? What do we need to do more? Because, as technology itself and you mentioned about the digital trust and many things that we can do what should we do, I would say, to really harness the power of this technology, far from all the noise that happens in the background? Yeah, just let the dust settle. 

0:05:59 - Roberto
I think I remember when the first computer came out, they thought they can install three in the full planet. When internet came out, was called like something that didn't work. People is giving it up, and so on and so forth. So every new technology like collected look at the metaverse, for example. You see something that started everything in metaverse and now metaverse it is appeared. Truth is now that there are evolution that take time. They take time for being asserted, they take time for being implemented properly and at the beginning of a new era of something that is really plastic, like technology, there is always a lot of noise, a lot of people that jump onto it. 

I was writing a small article the other day about what the years of has been from the years of, you know, like telecommunication, like, for example, podcast, zoom communication, remote work during the pandemic. Then there's been the year of crypto ICO. Before that, then there's been the year of. So every time there is a wave with something new that everybody jumps on it. Everybody goes in LinkedIn and changes the specialization with the last answer comes out. And we had the bank, no, the company that in the stock market change of name, I had the blockchain, but they were doing anything except other things and they become super popular and their stock went up a lot. So there are trends and these are to be considered. 

In a certain way, web3 has this misfortune that, being financial, there's been a lot of scams and a lot of people that jump into this train where people thought easy money, fast money to create damage to other and scam other and read the reputation of you know the whole thing. But if you think about it, the blockchain, peer-to-peer those are technologies. Technologies don't have the fault to a scam other than you know. Like a car can be a tool that you can use to drive around, you can use to hit the you know people and kill people, because it's what you do with the technology that makes the difference. So, unfortunately, people had to make these mental connection and then it's being also the way all the NFTs, that is, the monkeys, sold for half of a million dollars. There is a huge nonsense. Technology doesn't care. Technology is there, it's remaining, it's growing, it's gonna be used, but it's more convenient the technology to be used. 

So I think, when the dust settles we're gonna see the real use case in the command. But there's real adoption, so giving time to it. 

0:08:33 - Mehmet
There is also and another set. There is a little bit political. 

0:08:37 - Roberto
there is the desire of control, so the centralizing services that are now centralized is gonna remove power from certain people. So there is also a tool to consider. 

0:08:49 - Mehmet
Cool, yeah. So Roberto mentioned something also which is it's critical. You mentioned about this camps. So for someone who might be listening to us now, so how if I am not familiar with this, but I'm curious about the technology and really I want to maybe even invest in this technology how I can spot what is a scam from what is really. I would say something Greek or something which can be useful, meaningful and really can have potential. 

0:09:30 - Roberto
Right. I consider the idea of investing in the technology a little bit to be analyzed. Because we invest in people. Those people are gonna use the technology to make a business. We can invest in the idea of a business model, but the technology is just a mean to go somewhere. So the desire to invest in some people that I trust that they're gonna do a good job, that they use a business model that I trust is gonna be efficient, only because they use the technology rather than another. Maybe it's not the best approach to invest in my opinion, but I would just invest in something that is actually going to have market, so some idea that they really go there to pick a place where they can make a big difference. They can solve a problem people have, and in this case, if the technology uses blockchain, peer-to-peer network better. If not, if the idea is bad, it's gonna work anyway right. And if the people that execute the idea have a reputation of being serious entrepreneurs rather than people appear from nowhere but very charming, that's also something to consider. 

There is been so many, so many scammed of people throwing money to people that just had this reputation, but just built out of third party comments, but not built by a career. Most of the people that present themselves as experts in some field. We should go 10 years behind in their career and see do they be speaking at conferences on this topic? Have they run company? They've been a little bit at least successful? Or the pioneers some technology. And then I can see okay, probably they gonna do a good job. They're using this technology because it's really important for what they want to do, but not because it's just a buzzword that they are using to get investor money. So investors should pay attention in this aspect when approaching something. 

Web 3 has a lot of very successful and money-making projects and a lot of the fails and a lot of the worst scams. At the beginning, real estate, as much as so we know worldwide real estate, but at the biggest scam you know things that never happened. As much as brogsy the fail, as much as very successful one. 

0:11:46 - Mehmet
So it's not different 100% and you know like. You know, like it's a rule of thumb when you decide to invest anything, you go and do your homework and you research about. You know the founding team and the, as you said, like, at least today, that they participated in conferences, that they publish a paper like do they come from? 

you know, especially if it's something new, of course if it like maybe in other technologies, okay, you can relate, you can say they are up to something and you can see, but especially in these emerging technologies, robert, to now, you know I want to a little bit go technical and this is our relate to what you are trying to do today. So you talked at the beginning about decentralization and you know, like peer-to-peer is part of this and actually peer-to-peer for people. You know, you and me, I think we are old enough to know that peer-to-peer start actually with music back in the days. So you know, and the torrents and all these things. But now, like, let's explain it first and then I'm interested to know what you are trying to do it with AI. It's something you know because I think it's on top of mind for many people and I will let you explain why it's important. 

0:13:01 - Roberto
All right, Sure, first of all, we need to understand what peer-to-peer is. Peer-to-peer is a network of computer. They talk to each other where no computer is more important than any other. So there is no centralized point of failure. There is no administrative computer, the manager of the network. So this is the beauty of the peer-to-peer network that they respect the protocol. 

So we expect all the servers in this network to do the same thing in front of a choice, and then you can kill one, and three more are coming up somewhere else. 

It's like an animal delivering his own life. It's like almost a living thing, because it is distributed around the world thanks to the internet and it's impossible to be shut down all at once. So this is really, in a certain way, democratic, meaning that there is no control, there is no government can decide what goes on or not in the peer-to-peer network. In fact, going back to the origins, when the music and movie were downloaded from centralized websites, like other things, government could easily shut them down and the law, the regulation were about no setting up a website distributing copyrighted material. With BitTorrent, which is the moment that I joined, is a revolution of the centralization they're all had to change because BitTorrent appeared to the network where nobody is controlling it. The rules cannot be set into not running the network because it was impossible to regulate, so you have to change it. You cannot download from this network, so the paradigm has shift and this is something that goes above simple music distribution. 

Considering that at the time, the music and movie industry had an opportunity that was golden, because they had a distribution network that can reach the smallest village in the most remote country, when they had to sell their material through DVD or videotapes, even worse, and ship it around the world. So I have a catalog of things that need to be produced. So digitalization could have bring these people a huge advantage. But because the cloud, the technology, was new, and when something is new and unknown, people get afraid. 

They reacted, bullying the people that was using the technology. So they lost in all terms and with peer-to-peer use for finance. The financial institution changed the approach and they said maybe we can adopt this technology and other ways, try to regulate which is now under our control, by letting user use it or not, as what is happening. 

So going back to the original question of the peer-to-peer network being a network made of a computer that don't have one more right than the other. Following the protocol, there is a rule that is embedded in the software of each of these computers, these cyber in the network. We can achieve so many different things without the central control or in post control. For example, twitter was harassed by the government to remove certain content and at the time, ceo in honor of Twitter, their sister building and the centralized content management system, so that practically the for content distribution system, so that practically all the content that was on Twitter wouldn't be in Twitter data centers. So when asked to remove content, people say sorry, I can just block people from accessing it. I can not remove it because it's not in my data center. 

And this idea should have been in, where we don't decide anymore what can be posted or what not, but we can decide what we can see, what we consume and what we don't want to consume. So it's a very interesting cultural change in how things are operated online. But eventually things are moving in these directions. We need to adapt. We cannot stop technology. That's the point. 

0:17:07 - Mehmet
Cool. Now back to the AI thing, roberto, why decentralization is important for AI, and I know in the current work you're doing it's something different about decentralizing AI itself. So can you a little bit explain to us about that concept and what you're trying to achieve? 

0:17:32 - Roberto
Okay, sorry if I interrupted you but I needed a moment of breath. In fact, given what I explained earlier, if we were all preoccupied of the misuse of social media to influence people in taking choice for votes, election, rather than we had the Cambridge Analytical Scandal and so on, thinking how people is using AI on a daily basis to take a decision, to write contract, to choose what to do or not, so it's just more than reading an article and thinking I'm convinced about that or not. This is really asking, like if you're asking the best friend that is super intelligent should I do this? How should I communicate it? 

If this thing is controlled because it's centralized and we saw it with the ChargerPP, that was absolutely on the work side of things and pro against some political people, then you can ask you can say something about this political person and say I will never say, but then when you say something about the opposite, first it's ready to say everything better than you want. So in this terms it's dangerous because it shows clearly that it's centralized. How it's trained, what is trained and what basis is trained and what is educated on, answering is a choice of a small group of people. Now, if we translate this into a decentralized manner where, as I was saying before, there is a peer-to-peer network where each server has a piece of the brain and the synapses for the reasoning are in the network, terms are like those of the artificial intelligence single data center. 

We probably have an artificial intelligence that is not controlled by a single party, so we can have a multiple sources, multiple way of thinking and the two answers of any sort. On the other side is read some issue asking the judge PT how to build a bond, for example, is getting a negative answer. There was way to hack this around before and they're protecting it In a decentralized manner. We need to be sure to filter content in the moment that we receive it or we ask a question, but not in the moment that is trained because there is gonna be no possible to be controlled, so like a container that does and provide any sort of intelligence, and a user that choose what to hear and what not how we should be, I guess. 

0:20:04 - Mehmet
Now, this is very good point, Roberto, and you know there was a you know some speculations on why, for example, companies like Apple were slow in, you know, moving with the AI, and one of the things is that, like because Apple likes to put you know the software in the device, so they were talking about, you know, like it's not, it will not fit on the CPU that they use in the phone, while, like you know, open AI, they are leveraging all the power behind them, which is Microsoft and all these server power that they have. 

So, saying that like, do you think this concept of decentralizing AI will also allow maybe other LLM models that can run on top of it and you know, like, get the same? I would say at least you know from I'm not expert scientifically, but you know when they release these papers and they compare, for example, you know how the model acted for certain things, and we know that it needs a lot of GPU power and CPU power in the background. So will this help actually in letting other LLMs become more powerful and even, like, maybe at least have the same of what GPT, for today, has, or we need to spend a little bit more time on this. 

0:21:31 - Roberto
Well, first of all, we need to understand that the bigger power consumption is on the training side, it's not the consumption of the result of the model. There are models that are, you know, just less than 50 gigabytes that can be downloaded and run locally in a computer, that are pretty much at the same level of charge. It's up to them. Personally running in my computer and something that is at the same level, I will say the only difference is that the charge is constantly trained, so it's going to be updated. On the other side, I need to download a new model every time I want an update, or maybe in the future have a system to reach just the latest update and add them. 

But what is coming this year is more what are called agents, so those applications that knows how to use multiple different models from different sources can be all locally, also even online with APIs, and built together an answer that is being populated by multi parts. This is the principle of the centralized artificial intelligence, where many brains and many computers around the world can chip in to bring an answer that is much more powerful, and we know that if it is an extended peer-to-peer network, it can easily become much more powerful that a large data center is simply slower. That's it, but nonetheless an interesting progress because communication and getting faster by the day, so just with something and other things, so we can reach a very similar level of processing power and response. 

0:23:18 - Mehmet
Do you think like we can reach what they call artificial general intelligence? 

0:23:25 - Roberto
I think I first have experienced a couple of times a charge PD to give answer that are absolutely not logical in the terms of what the explanation of the current function is. 

And the AGI is clearly something that is already very near the only issue that most of these models still hallucinate what is the term that is used? So sometime they go out on tangent that there are nothing to do with what they should come to, and this is something to be free. But nonetheless, I think AGI is something that this year is going to be reached to the embryonal level, if not fully developed. Think about this when a baby is born. I have father of four kids, right. The oldest one is already 30 plus. The little one is three years old. So when the baby is born, before his brain is all wired up to deal with life like we do when we are grown up, it takes years, right. So for as much faster the training of an artificial intelligence model can go, you still do require time to reach a certain level of maturity, and we can see it in the past few years how this is being happening already. 

Even more easy to see visually with the Lee, for example, in asking to create an image with some text as the biggest challenge in the world, because the text is going to come up with the spellings that are more. But it's getting better and better, a little bit because of training, a little bit because of maturity, so by the user and feeding back the results and the feedback is getting better. So it's a sort of a natural selection process that is applied to these models. 

0:25:27 - Mehmet
Now I am fascinated by one concept which we saw, some examples, lausir and you just talked about it a few minutes ago which are the agents and Lausir, I think there were some. I think these projects still they are active. I stopped following them because I got overwhelmed. So there was something called the auto GPT and something called baby AGI, and I know that there's plenty of other things. So now the question that I keep asking everyone who's expert in this domain, like yourself, roberto, and especially now with a mix of the decentralization and you said, like this is, will give them a lot of power. So, with that, allow us as humans really to need to work less and just give these tasks to these bots and then let them figure it out, and then they will bring the results to me, like, are we reaching something like this with these bots? 

0:26:35 - Roberto
I believe that is a little bit of a course for us, because, you know, if I am the only one that can use the GPT against the rest of the world and I am a software developer I will become a superstars of the developer, be able to return your code in an afternoon. But because all the software developers have access to the GPT, and then we're just raising the basis of all the software developers. 

So make no difference Like, if you give a million dollars, which person in the world? There is no more rich person, because anyway everybody is at the same level. Well, in a certain way, I think a lot of jobs are automated and things are going to change. I think that this happened in history so many times where some technology came on and replaced a key part of a job, if not the full thing, and people need to move on. I have a very good example. I was when I was a little kid. I was running my company. We were doing also tech support and presentation of basic software. 

I'm talking about 30 plus years ago. We had a photographer in our town, the SOTIS digital camera coming out and he made the revolution in his photography shop. He was all about digital, both computer rent, photoshop or whatever it was at the time and start offering services to the photo, retouch, photo restoration, all in digital aspect. All the other shop. That is a huge product machine where you put the rolling site and the print comes out and the person just sits there smoking a cigarette. They all fail, they all close down because they didn't move together with the evolution of the technology. So now, this is what happened at the time and this is happening today, and he's going to apply to law firm, to content creators, to newspaper Every part where artificial intelligence is going to supply support. 

What is important? Not to just trust it blindly, but to live a human with a good brain and to verify what comes out of that. But still remains, a lot of things can be absolutely automated, and where you need that for a person, you're going to need only one. What is other four people going to do? Either they act as the photographer and evolve, or they act like those with the machine and they're going to be banned. So we need to move on. 

We cannot just take everything for granted, but maybe with the because I do believe 2024 is going to be the year of apply. 

That artificial intelligence means even in robotics, and they're beautiful robots that were totally dumb. Thanks to artificial intelligence, the use of these robotics is going to go millions of times better because it's going to have a context, which is important. Probably in this context, we're going to see the need by the government to give a basic income for everybody, just, but not only, for people that is not working, because they're using sensitive people to not work because it's like, why should I work If I get everybody should get like a basic amount of money, and this would justify the fact that some jobs are going to be take the time to transition to things, even farming. There are tractors that are totally controlled by artificial intelligence. They do the things. So there are a lot of processes that are not required, much less people, but there is a lot of people that need to move on and do things that are needed and that artificial intelligence cannot do Absolutely, and I had on the show yours is close to mine, I would say about the future of work with the age of AI. 

0:30:09 - Mehmet
Some of my guests they had like a little bit more, I would say they talk about complete demolishing of some jobs. You know, and this is, they said that there will be no transition. It will happen very fast and faster than we expect. Now, with all what I'm seeing, I think there is like any new technology there will be some resistance for some time. There will be some voices here and there. But, yeah, the change is coming and I think you know, and we repeat it again here, I think many times the power will be with the ones who know how to leverage this technology for their own purposes, right? 

0:30:47 - Roberto
So yeah, it is what is green that usually put things in a bad balance. 

True, if people were happy to share I'm not talking about the communism level of sharing, okay, because that's certainly too much but if a government can provide something, I think privatization of basic needs is a very risky part. I mean, like we saw in the United States with health, for example, compared to many countries where if you're sick, you're given health by the government. Maybe the quality is different, unfortunately, but the guarantee of the basic needs are there. So if a culture can have the big revolution to be automated by robotics and artificial intelligence, probably that should be ownership of the common people, meaning that it should be managed by the government, because if he's controlled by privates, then they're going to just make more money and there's going to be more people in demand of the product. It's going to create a little bit of unbalance. So probably that's why I believe in democratizing artificial intelligence, because it shouldn't be controlled by a central party. It should be free for everybody to apply in all the aspects of life that they want. 

0:32:08 - Mehmet
That's another view, which is I like it because it's very balanced. Roberto, you know I want to shift a little bit Giz and ask you a little bit about now. Currently you do actually you have two titles, so you are a CTO Chief Technology Officer and CBO Chief Business Officer Blockchain. 

0:32:31 - Roberto
Officer. 

0:32:32 - Mehmet
Blockchain, oh fine, but still, I mean you need to take care of the business part and the technology part. So how do you do this? And because you said you just had your first company, at a very young age as well, so you know how do you balance these two? I mean like from being in the tech hat and the business hat at the same time. 

0:32:58 - Roberto
Well, I do believe that this is a difficult and I suggest not to do it for anybody. I had a friend who was an amazing instigator, an amazing photographer, and he said look, I make a lot of money with my photography, but it doesn't make sense for me to spend the best time to build the business side of my work, so I'm going to hire and pay somebody that is my boss inside there, so somebody else is going to take care of the business. So if we are talented on something and we sacrifice our time and our talent to follow the respect of our business that are necessary. Like all, the business side is not a technical side. It's always better to let these aspects be taken care of somebody that will do just that. 

Personally, I am Chief Blockchain Officer on one side, so I studied architecture for the decentralization artificial intelligence, so how peer-to-peer network can actually support distributing the brain for both training and the consumption in artificial intelligence on one side, and on the other side, I studied the token economy and all the architecture to manage a web-free aspect of the game. So there are two separate things, but both technical. So that's one point. I usually I've been CEO a company because of need, because there was nobody else to do that. I'm probably not the best CEO, but it's something that is tiring and difficult for somebody that is not born to be that. 

But, on the other hand, I will be CEO and not enter into the technical aspects of work with the CTO next to me that I need to trust and it's going to mean all the feedback on all the technological aspects of the business. So the CEO need to take care of who's been hired, why this money are not coming in and so on and things that are far away from the technology. 

0:34:58 - Mehmet
Absolutely, Roberto. You wrote a book about blockchain. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? 

0:35:07 - Roberto
Yes, absolutely. That has been something, a pivotal point in my life. So I'm a certain point that was working already with the blockchain for many years, because I started at the early days and I realized this blockchain was born not as a finished product. It was a solution for the Bitcoin to have them decentralized and it was architected and built to work with the cryptocurrency. Then, in the evolution of things, the blockchain start having its own life and it's going to be applied to many other things, a lot of other crypto and tokens, which is pretty much okay, maybe, but then also for other use cases like managing a supply chain aspect or other things. 

But the architecture of how the blockchain is being built originally, I mean it, didn't change much, making it not really the correct technology to do a lot of other decentralized things. 

So I started studying a system to the couple the cryptocurrency aspect, the token aspect from the mechanics of the protocol of decentralization, and I designed this protocol which in my head, was working, but would I know it was actually working? So I invested a lot of money personal money to actually build a proof of concept, which became a full functioning mechanics with the mobile app, web app and all, and then I shut it down. I shut it down because I've been also part of another layer, one project and, unfortunately, being so attached to blockchain with crypto, people think that the quality of the technology behind cryptocurrency is directly proportional to the value of the cryptocurrency, which is absolutely not true. I can do an amazing technology, a lot of things, and the token, if it's traded, has a very low value, doesn't mean the technology is low value. On the other side, we had a very good example of very valuable token and crypto with the kind, with the structure that was horrible, and you know I'm not going to make names, but people lost a lot of money because the technology failed. 

So in this case, I wanted to wait to have enough funds to build this project properly. The book is a testimonial of when the idea was born, so whoever copies it came after me, but I welcome to copy it because it's a fantastic idea. It doesn't give the technical specific detail, but the concept, and it's also a memory of what we do. Come to the centralized application, to the centralized main server, to the centralized web and other things. So it has a lot of it's solved a lot of the problems that were there with the original blockchain, like the 51% attack rather than scaling and other things, but require a decent investment. This is also an opening video. Somebody in Dubai is interested to talk to me about this project? Please contact me, because it's something that I keep in the drawer by. I'm ready to drop everything else and put myself into it. 

There are ways to implement it. 

0:38:25 - Mehmet
Sure, like hopefully someone would would notice that, roberto, and contact you as we're coming to an end, any final thought and where we can find more about you. 

0:38:38 - Roberto
Well, my name is Quetionic, so just Googling Roberto Capodieci is a good starting point. My family name, capodiecilink L-I-N-K. Is a link to a sort of a list of social and other things to find me or very simple to remember r-c-x dot. It is a short link to come to my main website. 

0:39:03 - Mehmet
Don't worry about it, roberto. Everything will be in the show notes. So all the links you mentioned, they will be available there. Really, I appreciate the insights and the knowledge that you shared with the audience today. Roberto, I really, really, really thank you very much for the time on the show today. I appreciate that especially. I like how we talked about this blend of decentralization with the AI. So let's see what the future will hide for us and this is for the audience. 

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