#336 Building Sustainable Growth: Bill Simmons on the Role of Fractional COOs in Startups

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Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO show with Mehmet. Today I'm very pleased joining me, Bill Simmons. Bill, thank you very much for being with me on the show today. The way I love to do it, as I was explaining before we start the recording, I leave it to my guests to introduce themselves because I [00:01:00] have a theory.

Mehmet: No one is able to introduce someone else better than themselves. So the floor is yours, Bill.

Bill: Well, thank you, Mehmet, for allowing us to be on the show with you. So it's an honor. Yeah, our company Thrive Business Operations. We started in 2006 providing outsourced executive leadership. And today, uh, we are a small firm.

Bill: I have a business partner, Kai Bailey, and we work together with our team of fractional COOs, chief operating officers, uh, to help, uh, really, uh, strengthen, uh, small to mid sized businesses all across the country and, uh, uh, across the U S and around the world. So, uh, we're, we're excited to be able to share this time with you.

Mehmet: Absolutely. And thank you again, Bill, for being with me here today. First question, it became kind of a, uh, I would say classical or traditional question for me, because since last year, maybe it was there before, [00:02:00] but the word fractional became more and more used by everyone. So we start to see fractional CTOs, fractional Chief Operating Professors.

Mehmet: Fractional even revenues or sales, uh officers What do you think was the main drive bill for adapting this? I like to repeat maybe this question to my guest But I love to hear different perspective. Yeah. Yeah

Bill: So i'm a little bit of a cynic so i'll be honest and soon that but uh, I I kind of feel like We were early to the game.

Bill: We went through our marketing transitions through the years, what, what we used to call it was virtual, COO. And that really had some of the wrong connotations. And we, we transitioned to fractional around 2015. And at that time it was, uh, really inspired by. The, the, the one area of expertise that [00:03:00] led the area was clearly CFOs, chief financial officers, fractional CFOs have certainly been around for a couple of decades.

Bill: So we were early in the game. If you had jumped on LinkedIn and typed out fractional COO in 2015, I think you might've found 10 people today. You're going to find hundreds and hundreds, right? And I think why that's changed is fractional has kind of become the new coach consultant. And, um, when I say I'm a little cynic, I, I know that the reality is some of us get frustrated by that that are in the business world because everybody's a coach and everybody's a consultant.

Bill: And if we're being honest about it, we all roll our eyes and so now all of a sudden fractional has become that and I think it was from the, you know, the shift after covid where people took that, you know, maybe transitioned out of certain positions and want to be able to, you know, for lack of a better term, sell their experience and offer something to the market.

Bill: So there's a [00:04:00] lot of solopreneurs or single shingles are out there just putting fractional in front of whatever experience they've had. That's a little frustrating for me because we're a firm and we have to market and differentiate ourselves and what that means for us. So I don't know if that answers your question, but that's kind of where I see it shifting a lot.

Mehmet: Absolutely. No, no. You, it's nice to hear, you know, the other perspective because majority of the time, the answer I was getting is exactly what you mentioned about what happened during and after COVID. Um, you know, everyone discovered now that, okay, hold on. I, I can sell my knowledge or I can do kind of a training or I can offer mentorship and advisory.

Mehmet: And I want, I'm one of them, honestly. Speaking when also as well that, you know, like we find that this is a way to do things, but of course that doesn't mean this replace. You know, the full fledged if, if, because you have the pool of, of talents, I'm sure where you help [00:05:00] people and that add a lot of value over there also as well.

Mehmet: Now it's good to hear this perspective. What I'm interested in now is in the model you work by, uh, bill, which is called Thrive. And I know like Thrive, it's a abbreviation for of something so can, and it's, it's based, based out of six elements. Crucial for business success is I don't want to steal much of the light.

Mehmet: So tell me a little bit more about the thrive business moment and how these elements can be applied specifically in the world of tech startups.

Bill: Yeah. So there's a couple of ways I could answer that question, but I think in light of the last question, the way that the best way to answer that is One of the things we were committed to doing was differentiating to our ideal client, how we can deliver COO services into your company.

Bill: And we, we created what we call our thrive ops cycle. And it's a [00:06:00] business operating system that says, as we work with you, this is the model by which a COO will serve your company. And I, and that's one thing in a world. Flooded with fractional whatever I think if you're looking for a fractional support in your team, don't have not don't only evaluate the person Evaluate what process they're gonna bring to the table.

Bill: And so for us we have This five step, you know, we're going to start every engagement with a strategy advance. We do a deep dive into your talent and teams in stage two. The heart of everything we do is in what we call quarterly sprints. That's really ultimately, um, a met what we want to do. Our, our goal is to help run your business 90 days at a time.

Bill: The fourth stage is around. Um, yearly preparation for continued growth, [00:07:00] not just trying to solve problems, but asking ourselves what growth opportunities are in front of us and how we can take advantage of them. And then stage five is what we call the transition strategy. It's knowing what's the end game for you as a business owner.

Bill: Is this a legacy business you want your children to grab hold of? Is this a, uh, something you see that will have, uh, you know, large capital investment needed? drive towards that. Are you treating it like an asset? I want to get it to a certain value and sell it. There's all kinds of options. No one's right or wrong in one of those.

Bill: But knowing what that is helps us do the other four stages really, really well and preparing for that. And so that's kind of our model of how we use, you know, thrive Operational cycle, right? And driving your business with intentionality

Mehmet: Absolutely fantastic now But [00:08:00] maybe down the road there will be some challenges in in operations.

Mehmet: So based from your experience, what are you know the top? operation challenges unique for startups and small businesses. And how, you know, the cycle of thrive can, you know, help these organizations or these small businesses to actually thrive.

Bill: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great question. So I often say, um, you can't do everything, but you can do anything.

Bill: Our job as a COO service is to help you define any things you're going to do. And so as a business owner, you've got a list of just things that are frustrating you with initiatives that you think will make a difference, but we have to whittle those downs and define what should be truly 90 day priorities, Uh, objectives and key results that we're going after focus on that scope of work over the [00:09:00] next 90 days in the way we kind of keep things moving is every 90 days we're evaluating.

Bill: Did we move the needle on those objectives? Uh, did we accomplish our priorities and then establish the next round of, uh, priorities and objectives based on where our goals are that way? We're constantly moving. We're also addressing in that any, um, you know, obstacles that are keeping you from reaching your objectives.

Bill: And we're identifying those. Now, the reality is, uh, that's not rocket science, but you have to have a partner. working with you to actually execute it. And I think that's the frustration that a lot of business owners have. They have strategic conversations with people to identify what they may need to do, but then they're still stuck with not being able to execute that internally in our company.

Bill: So our goal is to take it one step further. We're going to partner with you in [00:10:00] identifying. And we're going to partner with you in executing and getting those things done. Is that helpful?

Mehmet: Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, out of curiosity, Bill. Now, do you use some frameworks like for example, OK, OK, ours or something similar to, to strategize, you know, the priorities and get everyone, of course, maybe because majority of the time they are small teams.

Mehmet: So maybe these are easier to implement than, you know, a very large enterprise, but any of these framework you use and see them adopting them.

Bill: Yeah, yeah. So if you look over my shoulder, you see, I have five books here that really all say the same thing. And that's helped run your business 20 days at a time.

Bill: Certainly any good company is going to use a mix of best practices. And that in, you know, our ops cycle, somebody might read the book traction and talk about EOS and business operating systems, our thrive obstacle is just simply our version of. A business operating system [00:11:00] when it comes to okay. Ours and some of your audience may know, um, that history of ad stands for objectives and key results.

Bill: Um, so we move into our quarterly efforts to identify, well, here's a little bit of a difference internally in our company, we wish in the term. Okay. Our. That the O did not stand for objectives. We wish it stood for outcomes. So therefore we're focusing on outcomes and key results and OKRs. And so when we look at our 90 day, uh, objectives, we want to know what outcomes are we expecting from those so that we can then measure against.

Bill: Did we accomplish those things? So it's not just about. You know, checking the box off that, uh, that a project was a completed or a task got accomplished it's did, did this help us in a, in a, in a specific outcome for our company?

Mehmet: [00:12:00] Absolutely. Now, one thing, you know, I just remembered, I wanted to tell you before I asked this question, but things were moving fast in my head.

Mehmet: So, you know, I can say in a way or another. because you mentioned something about, you know, when you are alone and you can do, uh, anything, but actually, you know, you would need someone. So can we call you kind of an accountability buddy, for example. So just someone to say, Hey, you step, you told me in, in one quarter, you're going to do one, two, three.

Mehmet: Show me what did you achieve? Can can I put it in this context bill? Yeah, but I would take

Bill: it up one step further because I think you know, I think a a we want to be a true partner We don't want to be just a coach or consultant with you Hold you accountable. We often say we do coaching consulting for free.

Bill: Uh, it's getting in to actually help execute We don't want to just increase your accountability as a business owner. We want to help lead improved [00:13:00] expectations and accountability throughout your organization. So part of what a good COO should do is help put, um, the right types of conversations out there.

Bill: where things are clearly defined on what expectations are. And then we're, we're, we're, we're tracking on a weekly basis. Are we moving the needle needle? And that is a true accountability, right? And, uh, and so we're, we want to help being. Leading that within your organization.

Mehmet: Okay. Got it. Got it. Bill. Yeah, it makes more sense actually now I want to discuss with you something which every New business startup they think about it.

Mehmet: I'm sure you know from day one Is of course, I I want to scale my business. I want my startup again. I'm using the word thrive um, but that requires a lot of It's kind of a balance [00:14:00] between innovation and efficiency within the operations. So how, you know, the role of fractional, uh, chief operating officer, uh, change in this context and you know, what strategies usually you recommend for having this balance between innovation and keeping the efficiency within the operations.

Bill: Well, it's a balance between being innovative and not falling for shiny object syndrome, right? So you've got a balance between those two elements. That's one of the reasons it's really, really important to clearly define The strategic direction of a company, understanding our, our, our short term and long term goals so that we are constantly only leveraging opportunities that help us reach our goals.

Bill: And so whether that innovation to me, real innovation, Mamet [00:15:00] is a creativity. And innovation in business is best described as our effort to solve problems. How are we serving people solving problems and coming up with solutions? And so it takes creativity and innovation to do that. And we're gonna take it's gonna take a mix.

Bill: Of team And tools right you got to have talent that can help you and you got to leverage the tools that are available today In this generation that has that is unbelievable and changing on a day to day basis

Mehmet: Absolutely, and this is what I call, you know even when you are a small business or a startup always keep questioning the status quo because You know, this is where actually this innovations and creativity come.

Mehmet: Go find where there's a friction and try to solve this friction, right? So, absolutely, I agree with you, Bill, on this point. Now, you talk, you know, when I was [00:16:00] preparing, I feel like you talk about getting businesses unstuck. Right. So from your experience, what's a common area where actually startup find themselves stuck and can you like give us some example of, of how a strategic intervention helped a business to move forward?

Bill: Yeah, I would say oftentimes that startups find themselves stuck because the business owner is the reason. Why the business was launched and has experienced its level of growth. And now the business owner is the very reason that's blocking the ability to scale. And that may just be capacity of just, there's just not enough time in the day and they're just not enough more space with this person to take on new tasks or new responsibilities.

Bill: And then they get stuck working in the business more than working on it. And that is a, a very [00:17:00] frustrating place. for a business owner to be, that is the founder and, or, uh, maybe second generation of a, of a family owned business and just feel stuck by that. And so us coming in and being able to be trusted partners to come along side of that visionary or creator to become an execution partner, I often say, Very good business owners have a vision that their operations cannot keep up with And it's our job to shrink that gap.

Bill: You're never going to eliminate the gap. You're never going to close it 100 But we can shrink it and be able to get operations To help fulfill your vision at a better pace

Mehmet: That's, you know, great to hear again, Bill. Now, one thing which attracted also my attention while going through the [00:18:00] preparation is you talk also about a kind of a trap of, you know, following too much data versus intuition and decision making.

Mehmet: And this was like a thought provoking for me because, you know, we're living in a world where Data is everywhere and we can collect data easily. Like to be honest with you. And I've read a lot of stories where the decision was, okay, let's, let's see what the data says. And I've implemented, do you have another perspective?

Mehmet: Like, when do you think, you know, we should follow intuition as leaders rather than just. Relying on the data. And is it something like, is there a rule for that or me as a business owner or a startup founder, I want to embrace this innovation, uh, leveraging data, but at the same time, I want to also see if, should I be taking risks, you know, in [00:19:00] a manner against the data.

Mehmet: Explain this to me. Um, yeah, yeah.

Bill: I don't think it's an either or proposition. I think it's an in both proposition and the most radical thing in the world. My met is balanced. And so how do you balance this intuition along with this analytical approach? Uh, in, in, in, I look at it as this, this tug of war between.

Bill: Kind of faith and facts, right? Because you know, if you're a business owner, that's the intuition faith I believe I believe we could do x I believe we could reach y I believe we could scale to to this particular level and we believe right and we like I And with that belief you try to inspire your team to go with you to accomplish that and Some people take the pendulum so far that they're so full of intuition and faith.

Bill: They, they don't pay attention at all to the [00:20:00] reports, the data, the analytics. And I think intuition a hundred percent by itself, uh, can give you some great victories, but it can also give you some great defeats. And the flip side of that is that we put intuition and leadership and experience to the side and just 100 percent focus on analytics and data.

Bill: And I call that the, the tail wagging the dog, you know, like I've lost complete leadership and ownership of my company. And I'm just letting all the analytics, uh, and the data analysts run my, my, my company. And so there's gotta be a place in the middle. There's gotta be a place where. We're using the facts to help give us more confidence in our intuition and faith to make good decisions.

Bill: So it's not either or it's and both, and it's trying to find balance between the two now, because the world's changing fast and data is, let's be real honest, it's [00:21:00] overwhelming us. And so we have to be able to find. The right kind of rhythm in a business to get the, the right information we need to make the best decisions we can make.

Mehmet: Yeah. Balance is, is the key here. And make sure, yeah. You, we don't over consume this data and we become like, uh, you know, kind of attached to it too much. Of course. Mm-Hmm. like sometimes we, we need to, to, to be flexible. I, I like this approach, uh, bill, because I've seen people who rely only on data. They do.

Mehmet: They do sometimes, you know, I would not say, um, uh, let, let's call it like wrong decisions. I don't want to exaggerate the word more here. And, and then they say, yeah, because you know, all the data showed, showed us like we should go to this way. Although, you know, there are sometimes, yeah, common sense or maybe, you know, some logic, which is different than what data shows.

Mehmet: Especially if you know the data it is collected in a very wrong way also as well So 100 on this [00:22:00] now, I know also you talk about something called frustration quadrant um Can you explain that and what's the purpose of that and you know, how that can be implemented?

Bill: Yeah. Yeah. for asking that. I I I wish I had my yellow pad behind me So I can start getting a more, uh, but here's, I'll try to give a verbal description.

Bill: We look at four quadrants based on understanding the role of people and processes in your business. And within the four quadrants we evaluate. People in processes, according to, you know, hey, is it a good person or a good process? Is it, you know, a, you know, ineffective or bad process? Is it an ineffective and I don't like using the word bad person, but in this context, it's the wrong person for the role, right?

Bill: And so once you start mapping all that out, [00:23:00] each one of those quadrants becomes a different version of that. Okay. I find that when I get to the one quadrant that is good people, but bad processes, that's where the highest frustration is in an organization. Because what happens is when processes fail.

Bill: Start underperforming Most people start blaming people instead of blaming the process and then I have made this mistake I'm a leader that's been around for a few decades and I look back and I realize we probably lost good people from our team Simply because we didn't have a good process for them to to operate under And we were blaming their what we were claiming is their inefficiency or lack of effectiveness.

Bill: It wasn't their fault. We didn't we didn't we didn't empower them with good processes. So frustration on both sides for our team members and [00:24:00] for leadership. The best way to remove frustration is to give good people good processes. Is that helpful?

Mehmet: Absolutely helpful. Now you mentioned something regarding, you know, people and, you know, so, so from the human element, which is in, in, in operations, um, and with your expertise, like, uh, Bill, how much do you see, you know, the enhancing communication Something key here, especially in the early stages, you know, I always talk about, you know, not only putting a mission and vision statement on, on, on a internal portal or in a website and then tell people, Hey, this is the mission and the vision.

Mehmet: So how important is to keep, you know, Us as leaders close to the people who work with us. And I know, like, it might be now a little bit of a challenge, but at the same time, it's not [00:25:00] because of the technology. So now, you know, we work remotely sometimes. And, you know, we're not in the same location. So how important is the factor of communication, especially because again, we're a small team.

Mehmet: And we're trying to actually escape

Bill: I think it's everything I believe there are three things that matter in business number one relationships Number two relationships number three relationships. I like it And I could unpack those I got three different versions of relationships. I I see happening in business But for the sake of this question, there are three ways To make relationships effective number one communication Number two communication.

Bill: Number three communication. Helping our team communicate effectively is one of I think the top priorities of any team building or company development is helping [00:26:00] people be clear on their expectations and being clear on communication and being able to address things in a what might seem like hard topics, but we can, we can, we can address hard topics and honorable ways instead of avoiding.

Bill: We have a lot of avoidance in the culture of management and leadership in the teams. And so we we want to be able to Increase that relationship and communication efforts in a company

Mehmet: Great advice i'll say bill and I like, you know You have repeated the three times like it's relationship relationship relationship because i'm big believer in this i'm communication communication communication Absolutely.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Absolutely. I I fully agree with you on this now Like if if we want to we have we don't have crystal balls. I know [00:27:00] but You Like as we look to the future, let's say with all the emerging trends that are happening What do you believe bill will be the most significantly impact on? startups and you know, I we focus on tech startups to operate and grow and what's the best way for the Founders or business owners to prepare for these changes.

Bill: Yeah, I I say that you you definitely need It's about the rear view versus the windshield. We we have to be able To evaluate what came behind us in the rearview mirror and and and be able to learn from the best practices Of what's happened recently with these types of companies. But we also have to understand that things are changing radically and we have to keep our eyes on the, in the windshield into the future.

Bill: And as you start a, a, a, especially in the tech world right now, it is two things. It is [00:28:00] clearly be solving a problem, get to the market in a speedily way. But not recklessly, right? There's a difference between speed of market and recklessness. And what we want to do is get to the market and be able to get the ideas and concepts out there quickly.

Bill: The reason I think it's important to get it out there quickly is people are looking for solutions. Now they're not looking for someday solutions. They're looking for today's solutions And if you're able to provide one and especially in this software service or app focused um, you know Capabilities that people can experience it is very very important To drive that in a way that can get to market quickly.

Mehmet: That's You know, it's I like this this point of view, Bill. Now, I know, like, also, you maybe not related to being a CEO, but [00:29:00] maybe it's one good aspects to have as well. I mean, as a service that you offer, um, you focus too much on the storytelling style, and I can see it now. So how, how, you know, leaders Yeah.

Mehmet: You know, and after you know the all this experience that you have, and you know, you, you, you've inspired a lot of people with your storytelling around the globe. So if you want to give them a lesson about how, uh, you know, they can. Acquire the storytelling skill and why it's important what what you can share with us on that.

Bill: Oh, well, thank you for that I I appreciate that. I I'll be honest in my leadership. I made it I I really can't even remember who it was that inspired me, but I can remember, you know Get a little I do have some rearview mirrors some age on me Uh, but it was in the mid in the mid 90s. I was really stricken around marketing and communication that [00:30:00] people connected with stories.

Bill: So I think first and foremost, you have to say to yourself, Do I really want to connect with people? And if I want to connect with them, then I need to tell a story. And if I'm not careful, people will make up the story in their minds. And so it's my job as a leader to articulate the story. I'm kind of responsible for the story of my organization, because if I don't tell the story of my organization, everybody else is going to make up their own and we see that in culture, right?

Bill: We see that in, you know, not to be. political, but we just watch news from one channel to a different channel and they say totally different stories, you know, just completely different. And so perspective matters and it's my job to tell that story. So what's important about that? So one is make it, make it a priority.

Bill: For connecting into, um, you know, it's an, it's an old adage, but a true adage. Nonetheless, people don't [00:31:00] care how much, you know, till they know how much you care and stories can demonstrate empathy and let and build connections faster.

Mehmet: That's again, very, very, very fantastic, um, Bill. Now, as we're close to an end, and you know, you shared a lot of great insights with us. And this is, I ask, you know, at the end of each episode. Any final thoughts? Anything that maybe I didn't ask enough about Bill and you want to tell us about it. And also of course, where people can get in touch with you and find more about you.

Bill: Well, first of all, Matt, I've had a great time today. Thank you for this. You've been a great host and you've asked great questions. So I can't off the top of my head say, well, wow, you should have asked X, right? Cause you just done a good, great job. Um, you know, If anything, you know, I, I, I've loved being able to tell some of our story, [00:32:00] I think to help the audience know that our company is not the Bill Simmons show.

Bill: Uh, I have a business partner, Kai Bailey. We work together very closely to build this firm, to, to, to serve your business and solve problems in your business, and you can't find a unicorn. You're probably looking for a unicorn. And so what I often say is. We are not unicorns individually, but as a team thrive is a unicorn and we can help provide solutions In operations of your company best places to find us.

Bill: It's a couple things. It's thrive business operations So that's the website thrive business operations dot com You can schedule time with me or my business partner kai. You could download our in our ebook The thrive up cycle that shares a little bit about how we deliver the service. But you can also find me on any platform as bill Simmons live L I V E, [00:33:00] uh, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, bill Simmons live.

Bill: You find me. Uh, and I will do my best to connect with you.

Mehmet: Great. The audience, you don't have to care about, uh, you know, where to find these things that you will find them in the show notes, all the links that Bill just mentioned, you can easily find them in the show notes again. Bill, thank you very, very much.

Mehmet: Uh, I always enjoy talk to, you know, experienced veteran in the business people like yourself, because, you know, this is why, you know, we can share the knowledge. That we have and of course as you mentioned people can reach out to you or to your business partner if they want to Know and learn more about your offerings in that space So thank you again for joining us here today.

Mehmet: And this is for the audience If you just discovered this podcast by luck, thank you very much for passing by. I hope you enjoyed it If you did Please subscribe and share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you are one of the followers and [00:34:00] loyal fans who keep coming again and again, thank you very much for all your support and all your feedback and your comments, keep them coming.

Mehmet: I read them all and I really take each one of these comments or feedbacks, you know, on very serious way, I would say this. And if you are also, Someone who's interested to be on the podcast. Maybe you are a founder that is trying to show the world something Maybe you have an idea you want to share it with the rest of the world Don't hesitate reach out to me.

Mehmet: We'll try to find a time if Things are suitable to the podcast format. I'll discuss this with you and thank you very much for tuning in We'll meet again very soon. Thank you. Bye. Bye