#340 From Seed to Scale: Bechir Omran’s Blueprint for Startup Growth

Mehmet: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet today. I'm very pleased joining me, Bechir Bechir, thank you very much for being with me on the show today. The way I love to do it is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves. So tell us a little bit about you, your journey, and what you do currently, and then we can start the discussion from

Bechir: Sure.

Bechir: Thank you Mohammed, for having me, and, uh, it's a great pleasure to to be today here with you and connect with your audience. Let me start, as you said by Pres presenting myself. My name is Bishe. I'm originally Tunisian, um, lived and worked most of my life across different countries to name a few Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, uh, South Korea.

Bechir: And currently I'm based out of France. Uh, I'm a growth professional. I've worked in different industries, uh, mostly media, content production, rights management, uh, e commerce, mobile apps, uh, travel tech, and currently I'm in SAS. So in a nutshell, that's who I am. And, you know, [00:01:00] and organized chaos.

Mehmet: Nice. But, uh, you know, the, um, the thing that, uh, also when I was preparing for the episode, Bechir, you have As you mentioned, you, you, you've seen a lot of different, uh, part of the tech, which is great.

Mehmet: And the second thing, you know, your area of specialty, which is growth, you know, and we're going to talk about growth a little bit, but, uh, you know, I want to go back and, uh, you know, if you can just tell me, you know, after this experience in various industries, um, was there like some, some pivotal moment that, um, You know, shape your career in taking, you know, this data driven technology, uh, path.

Bechir: Um, I've always been passionate about, uh, data and numbers. In fact, even in my studies and during my younger times, I specialized in [00:02:00] mathematics and then followed my formation system. But if I am to choose a moment that I consider pivotal to answer your question, it was my experience in South Korea. When I joined the company called HyperConnect, uh, and worked on an app called Azah.

Bechir: Um, at that level, it felt like I'm working in New York Stocks Market. They welcome you to the office and, uh, you have three screens suddenly in front of you. That's part of your welcome kit. And so many data flowing up in real time, uh, in front of you. To give you a perspective, just so for, for you and the audience to understand what are and what's Hyper Connect.

Bechir: Hyper Connect is a tech company that, uh, created and produced a, a, a mobile app based on what web RTC, where they try to connect people similar to what other dating and, uh, meet up, uh, apps do, but in real time basis where they come. And that app did wonders, did wonders. In fact, it was booming in Middle East, in [00:03:00] Turkey.

Bechir: We had markets where we were making over three and four million dollars a month. In that region only, leave aside the other regions. And the key to this app is to have a good balance between man and woman, logged in at the same time to utilize the app. So at that scale, data has a very key role in making sure the audience stays active and remains engaged in the app.

Bechir: So, uh, and, and basically spend money. And at that scale, decisions need to be making and observation is to be making. Within the spot, you know, you have to absorb, you have to make decision, you have to tailor your campaigns, you have to decide to decide quickly on what to do and how to change your perspective.

Bechir: And it was a massive learning experience. And I'm proud to say that I was part of the team who had scaled the market in our region up till our acquisition by match group for I [00:04:00] think 1. 6 billion back in the times of 1. 3 billion. That was the pivotal time, if I am to say.

Mehmet: Great, great. Now, of course, you know, you mentioned how Data is very important, especially on a mass scale.

Mehmet: Uh, and you know, we, we can now, and I know maybe it's now a cliche that in today's business, you know, it's like the data is considered the backbone of. Of the business itself, because it helps them in decision making right now, saying this from your perspective, Bechir, like what do you see companies still do as mistakes when interpreting their own data and if, if really, you know, they, they are using the data to the best leverage, I would say to, to take really, um, you know, right.

Bechir: Very good question, Mehmet. And, uh, you kind of [00:05:00] triggered the right, uh, Um, um, so the issue today in today's world, and I've noticed that in my previous role working in an e commerce platform in travel tech, where we had to serve over 4 million passengers. in under two years. Um, and when you say serve passengers, we're no longer talking about mobile app where you need to purchase a token or log in to use a platform, but actually you're buying a package and experience that impacts you and your family and the people you love, because this is a special moment when you travel.

Bechir: And at that scale, what we noticed, and that was my main observation. There is a lot of data points. And there is a lot of data we observe and we digest on a daily and on, on every seconds in, in, uh, as we do business, whether it's from the, uh, booking engine, the marketing engine, the, the financial numbers, the projections, the call center operations, [00:06:00] name it all.

Bechir: It's, it's a massive, massive flow that is directly connected to the customer job or the process flow. And that brings me to the important point. If it's connected to the process flow and it can be part of transferring onto ensuring a better transition for the prospect or the client or the customer from a face to another, then it needs to be, um, uh, elaborated on to become a performance metric.

Bechir: And that performance metric needs to be connected to relevant data sources. So that being said, we collect a lot of data. But some of it and a lot of it is, uh, is good to observe, but many of it is not needed for, uh, for the right, uh, action points to impact a specific part of the customer journey. So in a nutshell, if I'm to wrap it up, actionable insights are the most [00:07:00] important element when looking at data and those actionable insights needs to be connected back to clear KPIs.

Bechir: If it does not serve an existing KPI on an important KPI in my way of doing business, there is no point in looking at it at the moment. It could be part of the research team, insights team to consider in the near future. But today we have two options when looking at data, either to consider those data points, As ways to address pain points or a nice to have more like a vitamin.

Bechir: Okay.

Mehmet: I

Bechir: like when setting up your priorities, focus on the pains and look for the painkillers.

Mehmet: Bechir, like you, you mentioned something which triggered, you know, a question in my mind. Do you think like some companies can, of course, like maybe some of them, they are not collecting data at all. Some of them, they are collecting few data points. Do you think some of them, they are over collecting and over?

Mehmet: Analyzing this data, because you said like you should be able to, you know, to kind of say which one is [00:08:00] the painkiller and which one is the vitamin. This is very important. Now, do you think that some companies, they overwhelmed themselves with a lot of, of, uh, data?

Bechir: I'll give you a straightforward answer today.

Bechir: In my current role, I lead on the growth for a SaaS company. And our clientele is enterprise scale businesses, fortune 1000, mostly in Europe, um, and North America. And supposedly those are some of the biggest, biggest companies in the world, some of the most organized and well established, well advanced tech driven enterprises.

Bechir: Yet, we notice a common pattern. A lot, a lot of these organizations, whether it's large, small or medium, tend to be overwhelmed and have an over appetite for collecting data. It's a very common practice, unfortunately, today in our current world, where, uh, The impact of that is not knowing where to look. The impact of that is, uh, um, [00:09:00] looking at everything, but not being able to make the right decision because it only raises more questions.

Bechir: And, uh, our recommendation always is to, uh, if data is not aligned with your strategy, the way you treat data and the way you, uh, you extract value out of it is not aligned with your strategy, then you will have so many, uh, actionable insights. Or so many, uh, feedbacks or reviews or insights that could not necessarily help you grow or scale.

Bechir: If today, my priority is acquisition and I'm looking at satisfaction rate of my consumers, it's important, but it not, it will not help my company scale. If today I'm focusing on how much time clientele use or spend on specific website or a specific landing page, uh, yet it's not impacting the conversion.

Bechir: Then I'm looking at the wrong place. Um, and, um, we noticed this a lot where people or even as senior executives [00:10:00] tend to, uh, divert from what's important simply because they tend to look at what makes them comfortable, or I want to have more people on my platform, or I want to have people buy more, or I want to have people, uh, uh, share good feedback about my product and those, we call them the surface.

Bechir: The surface elements, the surface elements are not, um, our observation that needs to be backed up with, uh, more sophisticated questions that, uh, dive into the source of the problem and how that problem is fixed can impact my overall, uh, growth or performance, depending on what you need to look at and, and put priority to that.

Bechir: To sum it up. My recommendation always is to focus on what serves your business and strategy for the upcoming period. Look at the numbers that [00:11:00] feeds back to that and do not get distracted by everything else. Because you can easily be.

Mehmet: Absolutely, Bechir. Now, because we talk here about two segments, and you know, even on the show, I like to focus on these two segments.

Mehmet: So in the startup phase, if I get this right from you, Bechir, it's a, it's, it's a phase where I need to acquire customers. So I should be focusing on the metrics that To see how I'm acquiring these customers and converting them, right? So at some other stage, I'll start to look maybe later stage. I already have an established install base and so on.

Mehmet: So this is where I will start to see, okay, how customers are reacting to me. You know, are they happy with my product? Do I have churn happening? If I get it right from you, is it like the way I should be interpret, interpreting this? Because, unfortunately, and you brought this very important point, Bechir, there are people who are everywhere, you know, they are on social media, they are here and there, [00:12:00] and they, you know, keep talking about, you know, these old metrics, they throw them in front of the founders, in front of the You know, the people who are usually responsible for the growth and then I feel that they get it wrong.

Mehmet: Am I right in my thinking, you know, is this, is this what's happening?

Bechir: I think you pointed at the most common trap, uh, people fall for. So when we say growth or building strategy or scaling a company in the different phases, there are a lot of questions to be asked. And one of them, am I a B2B business or a B2C business?

Bechir: Right. Say, let's say we opted for B2C and that reminds me of one of the companies I'm invested in. And I was a week ago telling them the same thing. It's not about acquisition and it's not about all buying, but it's not about registering. It's about setting up a vision. And when you have that vision, say for instance, my vision is ultimately I want to achieve the goal where I have X number of customers consuming X number [00:13:00] of elements a month.

Bechir: Okay. I build a vision around it. Why would they do that? Well, how I'm going to make sure that I am the one, not someone else. What could my customer journey or my acquisition journey look like? I basically, if you want to ask to dive a bit deeper in here, I'm taking a very specific example. When I run a campaign, my objective is not for you to buy.

Bechir: When I run a campaign, my objective for you is to come on my website. Take a look at my brand. And then when I do that, my, my next, my next objective is for you to register, to give me your email or phone number. So I can start tailoring an experience for you. And then post that my objective is for you to consider my product.

Bechir: How do you consider my product? Maybe ask for a demo, maybe call the call center, maybe send an email inquiring about how it works. [00:14:00] And then when we get to that point, I need to have a process, uh, a drag and drop process on how I can, based on your persona, be prepared for you with a tailored answer. So for instance, if you reach out to my ops, asking about a possible discount for you to try the product, because you're very curious, but you think it's a bit expensive.

Bechir: I need to have a preset mechanism on how to, uh, give you the value you want. And as I do that, if you notice from a data collection perspective. It's no longer about acquisition. It's about four or five steps where I have to track different metrics and set a benchmark for each one of them and make sure I optimize each one of them.

Bechir: So ultimately, it leads me back to my goal, my final vision or goal at the current stage, which is having more acquisition.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Now, Bechir, we touched base on a few things, [00:15:00] but, you know, like the ultimate goal of any business, and especially, you know, when they are still, um, young, I would say, young or not young, but I mean, this is the top of mind is, you know, increasing revenue.

Mehmet: So, uh, I know you talk about performance based management, right? So how, I mean, what initiatives they can take. to implement performance based management, um, to see benefits out of it. And, you know, drive, uh, you know, growth in, of course, annual revenues. And of course, because, you know, you mentioned in the, you're in the SAS space now, and actually everyone is going to the SAS space, which is basically we need to increase the ARR, the annual recurring revenue.

Bechir: Correct. Um, so. Your question is what we like to call a complex question. It's not a simple question. You can open it. Yeah, and it comes with a few hidden sub [00:16:00] questions, I would say. But to answer you in a very simplified way for the sake of making it comprehensive to the audience, our enemy in the tech and in the startup ecosystem is always time.

Bechir: Everyone is rushing to get to the end goal, and that, in many cases, impacts the way we run our operations. Um, time is always our enemy, and it will always be, but there is a way there is a difference between being conscious of that and building our strategy to be performance driven and give things the right time and the right way to function as a cycle off different components interconnected that feeds back to each other.

Bechir: versus creating a chaotic environment and rushing, rushing, rushing to make sure numbers flow. I've seen both. The second one works, but it's mostly a short term thinking. And the [00:17:00] minute capital is no longer available in the market of investment, you will start hitting a wall because then in most of the cases, you're on the rush to raise more capital.

Bechir: You just need to show numbers and your vision becomes how much more I can raise. But when the market slows down, You feel forced and you know that the only option forward to build a sustainable business that can scale and can grow independently from the pressure of having to raise more funds is performance driven culture.

Bechir: How do you build a performance driven culture? The basics are very simple. You need to bring focus and expertise. So today when you hire a team, focus on bringing focus to your team. Do not distract me. If I'm hiring you to look at one component of the business, that's your bread and butter. You focus there.

Bechir: I do not distract you with, oh, why sales are not converted. You're a marketeer. Your job is to make leads, to bring leads. This is your [00:18:00] ICP. This is your performance indicators that you need to work for. This is your target numbers. This is the tools available for you. And you have up to two months to set up your ground, build your materials, create your processes, and start showing me results.

Bechir: It has to be incremental. You never come and you throw a number in my face. Okay, we work on it. We build the right infrastructure. We set it up, we achieve certain figures, and now we work on optimizing it. Then you deliver to the next person. There needs to be a connection between us, me and you. That connection is mainly an pre agreed definition of what do I need to receive?

Bechir: Does it check the boxes? Yes, it do. And that needs to be also not manual. It has to be something that flows and within a system. You get your numbers. Now it's your responsibility. You cannot look back and blame anything that did not work on the person behind you. It becomes your priority to deliver on your numbers.

Bechir: And then we have to deploy what we call an OKR driven organization [00:19:00] and an OKR driven organization. Make sure that everyone shared a common vision. Everyone knows what's their contribution to that vision and everyone down to the most junior executives knows what they need to do and how that feeds back to the organization performance.

Bechir: That being said, to sum it up, if well established and well set up, if there is a pain or a malfunction somewhere, you can spot it immediately. You don't need to look around and question everything else. And that's the right way of building a performance driven organization. Because if you succeed in 60%, uh, you will know how to protect that.

Bechir: If you fell in 40 percent behind, you will know what needs to be changed.

Mehmet: Yeah, you mentioned something crucial and I think. You know, the because you said before the time, right? The time is the most precious resource, which [00:20:00] is usually they don't have enough time. Now, I've seen this a lot recently, where now if they get the funding, and they know they have the clock start to tick, so they have between 12 to 18 months, right?

Mehmet: To either, you know, Go to the next step or rush again to raise another round. And at the time of this recording, we are in April, 2024. Things are going up and down sometimes. So now in, in, in such situations, Bechir, when maybe the founders, and I repeat this also outside of the podcast as well. So when, when the market in such.

Mehmet: And I would not say in trouble, but maybe the, the funds are not very much available, you know, um, the same levels that were in 2021, maybe, and, and 2022. So what's the best approach, you [00:21:00] know, to, to have this equilibrium between growth and, you know, at the same time, always having an eye on, on not, uh, you know, having the burn rate, uh, going really in a crazy way.

Bechir: So I'll be very frank and say it in a very honest and transparent way. Sure. Most of the founders, when they raise capital, they look to scale fast and they burn cash at a high speed with the aim of not delivering sustainable business, but rather on delivering specific metrics at no matter what cost, just so they are prepared for the next round.

Bechir: The best approach, which have been proven to be the most adequate one, is the what we're living today in the current economy. It's a simple us. You raise capital. You need to grow, but you need to make sure that it is a balanced growth. [00:22:00] So you reach a point where your business grow at a positive cash flow equation.

Bechir: So for instance, today, I am in a business that raised 10 million. I want to take my ARR to 20 million in the next two years. I need to do it in a, in a, um, um, in a, how can I say it in a, in an efficient way where I do not burn this capital, add more cost to my, uh, um, head count on my capex. That is more than what I can make.

Bechir: It has to be cash flow positive. If it's cash flow positive, cash flow positive, then you have a sustainable business that's even more attractive to investors on the current economy.

Mehmet: Right. Um, yeah, like, and this [00:23:00] is why What I'm seeing from my perspective, and I'm here in Dubai, you're in Paris today, Bechir, and I know like you cover also the Middle East market.

Mehmet: So the thing that I've noticed because I spoke to founders also, the ones who are really doing well, the ones who exactly are following what you mentioned. So even if they sometime, by the way, they are not raising capital at all because they say, I don't, I know that I cannot scale the business even if I get funding now.

Mehmet: So I prefer to grow slowly. I'm fine with even like single digit numbers, right? But as long as, you know, I have the sustainability in, in, in this, keep getting the revenue and getting the install base, or they are saying, okay, so we have the round that we raised, let's say there is a seed round or maybe a series A round.

Mehmet: And they say, okay, you know what? We tell the investors, our plan is, We're going to grow, but instead of telling them we're going to grow from, let's say 1, 000, 000 to 10, 000, 000 ARR in, [00:24:00] in one year, we prepare. And there are such investors that they understand that, you know, the current situation in the economy and say, Hey, listen, the next phase, it will be not in one year, in one and a half year, we are seeing based on the, of course, again, back to the data points that we were talking about based on the data that we have.

Mehmet: We're going to grow, but again, not in the crazy, like, uh, hundred percent year over year and so on. We're going to grow like the business, maybe 20 percent over the next three years. And then by that time, you know, things will, will, will, you know, become better. The product will become better, blah, blah, blah.

Mehmet: And then we can go to the next phase of scale. So I've, and you know, again, this is for the founders and thank you for bringing this machine is psychologically are, they are more comfortable. Uh, they don't feel themselves stressed or burned out because, you know, when, and you just mentioned like a couple of minutes back.

Mehmet: So when you. Try to do it in a rush. Also on psychological level and well being level, you [00:25:00] will be burned because you're trying, you're trying to, to, to dig in a hole that, you know, it cannot go deeper, right? With the current tools you have. Yeah. And if you don't mind me

Bechir: adding another point, don't misunderstand me.

Bechir: Here, I'm referring to your audience who's listening to us now. I'm not saying either to be too cautious or to, to, to take too much risk and jump all over the place. Risk is important. No success comes without risk, but there is ways of taking, uh, um, and address risk. There are ways of calculating risks. So for instance, there must be a burn rate.

Bechir: You need to burn, you need to burn cash, but you need to have a formula behind it on how are you going to address that on the mid and long term. Um, if you want to take risk, it's, it's important to take risk, but also you need to follow a process where you, uh, pilot, uh, do proof of concept, uh, test in the market, then start scaling cautiously.

Bechir: So, for [00:26:00] instance, you launched a new product, you don't need to hire immediately telling them that sales individuals, uh, uh, you, you can start by piloting it with your existing portfolio, validating the approach, which is something I'm living in my today's operation. Launching a new segments, mid market.

Bechir: Okay, how are we gonna do it? We're not hiring anyone. We're choosing champions from different teams, working with them. Uh, uh, uh, start addressing the market with the current resources, testing with the market. I myself attend those meetings, even though I'm, uh, n plus three compared to the people who are supposed to be in those meetings.

Bechir: I give the time, I listen, I explore, I go ask. So I pivot myself. I assessed the opportunity, I validate my logic, I amend what needs to be amended, I prove that this is functional, and then I treat it not as a core business. Okay, this is an investment we're going to do, we're going to burn x amount of money over the course of the next number of months, this is what we need to do, this is the people who will be dedicated, this is how we're [00:27:00] going to make sure they deliver on their numbers, and we assess the risk.

Bechir: We go and take the risk. And we know there is chances it might not work, but those chances are not 60, 70 percent because I just jumped in and started trying to find a way to make it work, but they're more like adequate percentage that can be addressed as we go. And as we say in startups ecosystem, you always need to expect the unexpected and you need always to be ready to adapt to it.

Bechir: without harming your core business. And that's the right way of scaling with a lot of actionable insights and maturity.

Mehmet: Absolutely, Bechir. Now, something related to this and, you know, it's kind, you know, bring the topic of, you know, what we call Sometimes again in the startup world, maybe pivoting, but this is usually it's done based on how the market adapted our solution and sentiment analysis.

Mehmet: [00:28:00] So, so sentiment analysis and, you know, understanding the market option are very important, right? So what do you think are the challenges that currently, you know, these companies, they face to Analyze what's happening in the market so they can pivot their business to the right strategy, whether it's changing the, you know, sometimes the market segment, as you mentioned.

Mehmet: So maybe they are selling today for small, medium business while they should go to enterprise or maybe vice versa. So what are the challenges in that space, Bechir?

Bechir: Um, an excellent question, an excellent question, Mohamed, and I will take it from up and go downward. Sure. The most common challenge is being hammered with operations.

Bechir: And when you're hammered with operation as a senior executive or a senior leadership, especially from the CEO level and going, uh, below, [00:29:00] uh, you don't have time to look up and observe. You don't have time to breathe. And I tell that to some of my colleagues, uh, my scale and even up, um, 80 percent of your time, the more senior you become needs to be dedicated to looking around.

Bechir: Whether internally to observe what's going on, connect with the people, understand where you can bring value or looking around you and spot opportunities. 20 percent is actual work. It's actually emails being sent or documents needs to be produced. But the more senior you need to go, the more you need to look up and forward and around you.

Bechir: And that's the most common mistake. A lot of startups and founders and sitting executives falls for. They, they focus a lot on keeping the business going and alive, and they get hammered and again, exhausted doing operations that they never look at what come, what's coming around them. And we have a saying in the, uh, we as Muslims.

Bechir: And I like to quote it when when in such conversations, we [00:30:00] say God created so many opportunities and God created so much success around us that it's more than enough to feed the entire population of earth 10 times. But many of us yet not not noticing it and we settle for average. Why do we settle for average?

Bechir: Because we keep our head down, focus on day to day ops, uh, running out for a job to make sure we pay the bills, running out to pick up the kids from the school, running out to be home around the family. And when we're dragged down in life, we don't look up. If you start looking up and make the time to look up, then definitely you will start spotting those opportunities.

Bechir: Now moving to the next point. Um, if a company doesn't have a strategy on where it needs to be, uh, in a, in two and five and three years from now, and do not regularly twice a year, come and revise that strategy and look around in the market and [00:31:00] say, okay, what's happening around us does is this vision is still valid because in so many cases, I even experienced myself, you set an amazing strategy and vision and you start working toward it, but in a year from now, dynamics change.

Bechir: Competition comes, new solution comes, AI jumped in, uh, your vision might not be as valid as it used to be after a year or even six months from now. If you do not take the time to recalibrate and assess what's going around you and pivot your business, then you will never grow. And the basics of it goes back to how a startup is built.

Bechir: And, um, shout out to a good friend of mine, Mahdi. He once told me that and it marked me. Told me when you build a startup at the beginning, you're like a mouse. You're running all over the place. You're looking for food left and right, wherever it comes, you want to eat. Then you become a rabbit. You know, you like carrots, you know, you like lettuce and you know, you like a couple of other [00:32:00] things and you know where you're going.

Bechir: The more you escape, you become like a gazelle. You know what you need and you go for it and you're straight, fast and sharp. And that's Apple. The more you grow and the more slow you get, you'll become what we call the worst phase. An elephant. You barely move. It becomes so slow to move your legs around.

Bechir: The point here is how fast can we jump from a phase to another to re, to to, to become a gas and reborn ourselves, reproduce ourselves to remain always a Gaza. And if there is a school we need to all observe, it's mainly Toyota and the automotive and apple and the electronics. Those are schools where they continue to renovate themselves to remain always relevant and to always remain as a young organization that's focused and know who's their ICP and go for it.

Mehmet: I like this, uh, metaphor, I would say, Bechir, like absolutely very, you know, like, uh, I was thinking about it. Yeah, [00:33:00] exactly. So when you are in the starter phase, you go all over the place and then you start slowly, slowly to sharpen down the thing. And thank you for, for also giving this example, because sometime here also part of, you know, what I wish I can help, you know, by bringing people like yourself, the sheer here to the podcast is to change the formula of like 90 percent of the time businesses fail and the reason they fail because they cannot adapt very quickly and they become, I think you call them elephants, you call them elephants.

Mehmet: I call them dinosaurs.

Bechir: Or, or they do not pivot well, fast enough. And I want, I want to take an example here. Actually, it just came up to my mind. Remember the automotive industries back in the 1900. What was the big names we're talking about? Ferrari, Bugatti, Porsche, um, Maserati. Guess what? [00:34:00] They were all acquired by the average brands.

Bechir: Volkswagen, Fiat. So excellence in what you do is not enough. If you don't manage to pivot fast.

Mehmet: You do not

Bechir: able to tap into the most, uh, important markets and tailor your solution to be accessible to the common so you can scale and remain relevant. You're doomed.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is why I was saying like, don't become a dinosaur.

Mehmet: You mentioned elephant maybe. A hundred percent. Elephant is a more. I think

Bechir: your metaphor is better than mine. No,

Mehmet: no, yeah. So the idea is like being slow, but the reason I say dinosaur, because you know, I always give the example sometime ago, speak to, to young entrepreneurs, you know, you, you mentioned like a couple of examples now, but I give them the example, which is very famous and everyone.

Mehmet: use it. It's like a cliche, but it's very true. It's very relevant. The example of Nokia and the smartphone or [00:35:00] the example of blockbusters at Netflix, you know, and, you know, this is also related to Ego and many things. So absolutely on this one, Bechir, because the pivoting is, I think, one of the, in my opinion, underrated You know think that they need to acquire very quickly as as founders because if you don't pivot quick enough You're you're you're going to hit the wall as we say, you know, like You you have no other choice because you keep repeating the same thing again and again I'm not seeing the result as you know The famous Einstein things comes in you become insane because you're trying to do the same thing again and again You don't want to pivot So, you know, and here, well, you know, all this data driven decisions and focusing on, as you mentioned before, what really matters.

Mehmet: Now, I want to shift to a little bit, something different, and this is relevant, maybe more, actually it's, it's, it's globally relevant, but I try also to talk about it to local communities. You know, startups here, [00:36:00] local startup. When I say local startups, not only in the Middle East area, they could be in Europe, they could be in Southeast Asia and so on.

Mehmet: So the thing is, when you want to scale, that means you want to go after different markets. And Let's accept it. So when, of course, when you build, you build for your market, and then you need to start going outside and yourself, Bechir, like you've successfully led market expansions in Europe, Southeast Asia, and in the Middle East.

Mehmet: So of course you can go, I know, like maybe hours and hours, but on a high level, you know, what do you think is crucial to succeed in, in having this diversification, um, In market expansion.

Bechir: Thank you for the question. Um, it's a complex, uh, one to answer, uh, again, be able to cover most of the needed elements.

Bechir: I can outline a few that comes out quickly in my mind. [00:37:00] For instance, uh, in your DNA as an as an organization, innovation needs to be, uh, that if innovation is not part of your DNA, where people are encouraged, it. To tap into new opportunities and where they feel that, uh, bringing something new to the organization can be rewarding and is highly respected within the organization.

Bechir: A lot of those people will come up with most brilliant ideas or will bring, will have ways of doing the most brilliant expansions, yet they will not find the courage or treat it as a priority simply because it's not part of the organization DNA. So. First things first, innovation never comes only from the fund.

Bechir: It comes from the people around your team, your different resources, no matter what's their involvement and what, no matter what their role is. And that culture of innovation needs to be praised. That being said, we move to the second point. Um, pivoting or [00:38:00] expanding is a generic term. It doesn't mean markets or regions on it could mean new verticals.

Bechir: It could mean new, uh, um, uh, type of businesses. So for instance, if I go for a coverage price, maybe there is room for me to tap into mid market. Maybe there is room for me to deploy my product, to be a fit for small businesses. Uh, if I cover direct B2C, direct to consumer products, uh, maybe there is way for me to innovate or adapt my product to tap into a different ICP or a persona.

Bechir: And we see it with some of our clients, for instance, uh, um, uh, home appliances, some of the premium products they, they, they, they consider now, uh, using the leftovers or the, uh, the unsold products to tap into the, uh, mid class or, or, um, economic buyers class, and they adapt their [00:39:00] offering for that market.

Bechir: And that's a segment once piloted and tested proved to be a relevant market that could be easily expanded to. And here I take the example of Apple and how they decided to tap into a new, uh, personas by the creating cheaper version eventually, because they saw there is a good opportunity in the aftermarket where people are buying the second hand old iPhones, even though they're outdated, because people wanted to that experience.

Bechir: Uh, when it comes to verticals, today, my solution works for the specific community or specific type of industry. But there is room for me to expand. I can if I put the right effort into research and innovation, that too, no matter what it is, could be adapted to a new industry. Or, for example, when it comes to expanding to a different region, for instance, in my previous role, we wanted to expand in Southeast Asia.

Bechir: We know that there is room for us to expand in that market, [00:40:00] but we didn't know what's the dynamic of that market Here the idea when you come and you start wants to pivot for to expand a new market You do not throw your product out there run the same things the same way and expect to get the same result You need to go you need to dive deep.

Bechir: I remember I recall two years ago I went and I spent almost three weeks in Pakistan Traveled around Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad, met over 800 potential prospects. We even hosted events. We even went on TV, we did some coverage, explaining that we're coming to this market, just to get a sense of the market.

Bechir: And opened a conversation with small companies, mid sized companies, to listen to them, and to see what they expect from us. It took me two, three weeks after that, when I came back to my base in Dubai, adapted my product and my solution. I had a new offering that fed back to that ecosystem. And three months later, Pakistan become my third largest market.

Bechir: Who thought that could be possible when I was sitting back in [00:41:00] Dubai, looking at the markets more fortunate, where currency, uh, is at its all time best compared to US dollar versus Pakistan back then going through massive changes and the currency is dropping. Yet it changed another role back in the times when I was, uh, working with hyperconnect, uh, Turkey was one of our biggest market.

Bechir: And then suddenly you remember when the days, when the currency start, uh, dropping massively, suddenly, when you look at the dollars, the numbers do not match anymore from a regular perspective. Oh, there is no more opportunity. The cost doesn't, the cost doesn't justify the revenue, but then all we had to do is to pivot a bit.

Bechir: And it is back again. So the idea here is, uh, in a nutshell, study the market, adapt the product, spend time to connect, uh, with the, with the, with the reality over there and put the needed effort before you expand. Do not [00:42:00] underestimate an expansion. And, uh, don't fall for the easy mistake. Oh, duplicate the same thing and expect the same results.

Bechir: It never works.

Mehmet: Absolutely. It never works. And I'm saying this from experience again, of course, like you can, I like to call it mimic, not mimic. You know, copy paste so you can do on high level same strategies. But when it comes to execution, the execution should be tailored to the market you are executing in.

Mehmet: This is a hundred percent. And you know, like this always, when I talk to founders, especially from North America, I always have this conversation with them. I said, guys, like probably what you do there. It's 100 percent fit for, for you, but when you come here, I'm talking about both B2B and B2C, by the way, not only B2C.

Mehmet: B2B actually, it's more relevant in B2B space. For example, I tell them like, even your pitch deck, even your marketing activities, even, You know, your [00:43:00] pr, you know all these, you need to tailor them. Maybe it's not that big pivot, you know, but you have to pivot

Bechir: a hundred percent. It's actually a big pivot and you have to do it.

Bechir: You know, today, exactly this year we even study the, uh, the personas we are addressing. We study their character, their disc type, are they dominant, are they influential, are they steady, are they calculative, and we study that, so we adapt the entire proposal, proposition to, to, to be adequate to that person I'm speaking to, and that on a scale of large enterprise, we focus on the persona, imagine how important it is to pivot and to tailor your offering to the person, to the people you're addressing, it's a people business.

Bechir: Thank you. If you do not speak the people language and understand them and you tailor to them and you put the effort to understand their reality, their ecosystem, their market, their, uh, their demands, their needs, the way they look at things, what drive, what's their drivers, you will not be able to scale.

Bechir: [00:44:00] Even if you sell your success ratio will remain always

Mehmet: True. 100%. And I said, like, this is something I experienced. It's not like I, I read it in a book or I read an article. It's something I lived by, uh, in, in, in, in my career. Um, you know, like a little bit, maybe kind of a, uh, direct question for you, uh, Bechir.

Mehmet: What future trends are see, are you seeing in specifically in the B2B SaaS space, uh, area? Uh, you know, are there like some, some big changes happening? Are we seeing like more, um, new areas that were not tapped before being now covered? What are your expectations for the B2B SaaS in general? So,

Bechir: again, an excellent question.

Bechir: There are a lot of things we're observing, but if I am to sum it up, [00:45:00] I'll give a quick highlight of what I mean. Quickly observed in the last period and what we're actually studying now currently within the organization. Uh, AI is going up. AI is becoming a very important element to the equation that some of the large enterprise we work with or we reach out to, they have openings for VPs and senior executives in data and AI.

Bechir: Uh, so that will have eventually an impact on the way business is done, uh, which means we will see a lot further optimization and operation. Because of AI and the impact of AI on the workforce, uh, at enterprise scale, this has started already. So I expect this to have income or, um, to have a impact on the mid market in the next one to two years, uh, aside from that continuous learning with the impact of AI on the business, we notice a lot of, uh, um, trend among people in the executives, whether in the B2B ecosystem or [00:46:00] in the market in general to podcast.

Bechir: Why podcast? Because now for instance, it became a source of quick learning. People wants to get, uh, insights and, uh, um, learn on the go without having to enroll for a course and be stuck behind the screen for, uh, three, four days. So we, we are witnessing massive growth in the podcast and podcast industry, and we are witnessing a massive interest from the B2B industry.

Bechir: Whether to sponsor, to collaborate, to be there, to address the right topics, to influence what's coming up. And aside from that also, um, we see a massive impact of, for voice of customer. And that being said, if I want to elaborate in a bit, uh, uh, uh, people now longer by the same way. People now look for a star rating.

Bechir: People look for recommendation. People do read reviews. People, uh, spend time assessing the different options. [00:47:00] Uh, before they make a call. And I think that is a combination of two factors. Uh, one, people are now more cautious about their spending considering the current ecosystem, uh, economies, uh, and two people are seeking.

Bechir: quality. People are seeking, uh, validation. People are sitting validation from other consumers to be sure that this is trustworth. And that being said, it presents a big opportunity. It means customers loyalty is no longer the same. I'm a customer of Gillette or wherever brand it is. I do no longer buy without putting effort into looking around and seeing if there is something better in the market.

Bechir: And that is challenging a lot of the brands we work with into constantly paying attention to what the customer are saying, enhance their marketing strategy, enhance their product offering and work towards that direction. And I think [00:48:00] this is in a nutshell, what I can tell as an observation on a quick, uh, brief answer.

Mehmet: That's very much insightful. And I agree with All what you mentioned, Bechir specifically because, you know, being a podcaster. So also you start to spot this, uh, the, the same thing that you just mentioned. And of course podcasting is on the rise. AI is on the rise the way, what I'm interested most in is to see how, and you know, we just, you know, I think couple of weeks back we released an episode talking about.

Mehmet: Exactly how, uh, customers are buying now to your point and you know, how the behavior of, of, uh, and even in the B2B space, like back in the days, you'd think like, okay, they would go to the internet reviews only if it's a B2C product, but actually it's, it's, it's. It's also happening in the B2B space and a faster pace.

Mehmet: So all these insights that you gave are a hundred percent [00:49:00] there, Bechir. Now as a final, you know, we reached, we reached almost to the end of, of the, of the episode today, Bechir, two things, uh, from your side, you know, any, uh, final advice you want to give to fellow, uh, you know, Tech leaders, entrepreneurs, founders, and where people can find more about you and interact with you.

Bechir: Sure. Thank you for taking the time to have this call with me and thank you for giving me the opportunity to be part of your podcast and address your audience. Um, uh, if I am to give one advice at the current, uh, Um, situation and what I'm observing in the market around me with everything happening in the investment ecosystem, be process driven and be resilient and focus on optimizing your operations.

Bechir: So you are cashflow positive as soon as possible. [00:50:00] Um, When it comes to engaging with me, you're more welcome to drop me a line on LinkedIn. My profile is Bechir Omran, and I'm more than happy to have other conversation with anyone from your audience and maybe take this forward, uh, in a different, uh, manners.

Bechir: Thank you so much for taking the time to have me, Mehmet. I really appreciate your time and it was really a pleasant conversation.

Mehmet: My pleasure, Bechir. And, uh, again, thank you for all the valuable insights, information and experience that you shared with us today. Really appreciate that. Of course, uh, I would put the link in, uh, link in, in the show notes.

Mehmet: So you can go in and connect with Bechir if you want. And this is how usually I end my shows. This is for the audience. Thank you very much for, you know, tuning in today. If you just discovered this podcast by luck, thank you very much by passing by. If you liked what you hear today, I appreciate if you can subscribe to the podcast.

Mehmet: We are available on all the podcasting platforms and share this [00:51:00] podcast with your friends and colleagues. And also I would love to hear your feedback and the comments. This is for my current, uh, uh, like, uh, community, keep your feedbacks coming. I really appreciate, and I really read all of them. And finally, um, you know, I would like to also.

Mehmet: As I do at the end of every episode, invite anyone who has great insights, has a story, you are a founder looking for a place to talk about what you're doing currently, you are a tech leader, you want to share your experience with other people, please don't hesitate to reach out to me because I would love to get you on the show.

Mehmet: Thank you very much for tuning in and we'll meet again very soon. Thank you. Bye bye.