#366 From Dubai to the World: Rodolph Khlat on AI-Powered Software Development

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Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the city or show with Mehmet today. I'm very pleased joining me from Dubai, which is something I'm always happy to have local, uh, guests on the podcast from here from the same city where I am. So I have Rodolph Khlat [00:01:00] today with me, Rodolph. The way I like to do it is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves, tell us a little bit about, you know, their background, their journey and what you are currently up to.

Mehmet: So the floor is yours.

Rodolph: Okay. It's a pleasure to be here, Mehmet. Thank you very much. Okay. My name is Rodolph Klat. I'm 25 years old. I'm a co founder of Smartr AI. We're a software development automation engine fully based in Dubai, and we've been building AI before AI was cool. It's been four years in the works, and we're now preparing to go to market.

Rodolph: So yeah, that's a little bit of one minute about me.

Mehmet: Okay, great. And, uh, you know, I'm so happy also because, you know, we, we cover a lot on the show here. So two things is first, it's a Dubai based, a software development related to startup. And the second thing, of course, someone who graduated from the same university as me.

Mehmet: So in Lebanon, also that is another great things. Now, Rodolph what I ask every founder, you must have [00:02:00] seen some challenges. You must seen have, uh, obstacles. Usually people face You know, so you decided, you know what, like, let's, let's start this. So I would like to hear from you the story behind Smartr, like how the idea came and, you know, what is the main problem or maybe problems that you, uh, are aiming to solve.

Rodolph: Yeah. So basically we've been a software house for the past 40 years. We started with my co founder and I basically, we were small developers out straight out of college. We were trying to do some projects for people. And then we saw that we had something that worked. So something that worked meaning a specific technique in terms of developing that allowed us to basically deliver high quality in a very short amount of time.

Rodolph: So we wanted to scale that and we did not have any money to do that. So we wanted a way to onboard junior developers and make sure they would be able to deliver a senior [00:03:00] developer's quality. So with that being, we started playing around with automation and basically process automation and using AI to create code.

Rodolph: And this is where we started having a small aha moment in terms of us doing something that would work. And that worked out fairly well for us. We've, we've completed around 20 projects for 12 clients in five countries and scaled the team to 10 developers currently full time. And we've had clients such as Telus, it's a Telco in Canada.

Rodolph: We are the official application provider for the Dubai corporate games, as well as several other clients across the region. And this is where we started zeroing in on our product because Smartr itself was used in all of our projects and all of our delivery. And this is when we decided then that we do have something that's market ready and just how this team of developers was [00:04:00] able to use Smartr to deliver high quality, uh, almost a quarter or 25 percent of the time other people can do that.

Rodolph: And that's why we're going. full on product base to basically have this, have this product market ready and just released as a software, as a service to developers and development houses worldwide because it's a market problem. We saw it was worth addressing.

Mehmet: That's great, Rodolph. Now, also one thing, you know, it was an aha moment that because you're yourself and your co founder and now the rest of the team that you, uh, hired across the, you know, the board.

Mehmet: Um, so you face this problem and you know, I'm not trying to challenge you as much as You know, have you validated also the idea with like maybe other developers outside of the organization because What I know and you know, we talked about this before the the recording that actually you faced The [00:05:00] problem yourself and you just mentioned it So what was the feedback from fellow let's say software engineers when when they saw this like Any any like a story that you can share with us

Rodolph: Yeah, so it's very interesting, particularly in terms of how this is received, because the the concept of automating a certain part of development is not a very new one.

Rodolph: However, when you go towards implementing it on a large production level, not many people use it anymore because everyone then goes back to basic. Or they would have their own dedicated, like, small machine that would do some automation. So we have, we have had some market validation. We currently have 50 developers on our Smartr Beta program that are currently testing out our product.

Rodolph: And we're planning, we're planning on building that upwards, especially in Q3 of 2024. So this is our way of just having this market validation. I've talked with a lot of senior developers. [00:06:00] who are very close friends who have given me feedback that it's not always 100 percent positive, but the majority was in terms of what we are doing.

Rodolph: We are onto something that's proper and that we're addressing a problem people actually have and actually want to solve because some people just have this problem and just would go with their processes because the processes work and wouldn't go like out of their way and change anything to accommodate that.

Rodolph: So it's a matter of introducing it in a certain way that people would be accustomed to adding it into their workspace because the developer's workspace is a very sacred environment that people have and are not willing to change unless something very, very valuable comes in. So we try to be the goal we got from the feedback, the action steps that we got from our feedback is that we should try to be as non invasive as possible, which is something that we've always had in our mind.

Rodolph: That's something that we're implementing. with every new version of Smartr. [00:07:00] So, yeah.

Mehmet: Yeah, that's great. Now, one thing also, which when I was reviewing, uh, you know, the demo that you have prepared and you know, you have two versions, one short one, one longer one. So one of the things that I believe any organization that develops software, whether it's like an in house or like whether a company that does it for other clients.

Mehmet: So there are like the, as they say in English, nitty gritty, you know, details of also choosing. you know, the infrastructure and, you know, doing, uh, you know, the architecture of the application itself. Uh, I know the answer, but I'm asking this too, for the audience to, to understand also as well. So how far, you know, you think you can also automate that part also as well, because, you know, I'm not a developer, but I have like, Kind of a general knowledge, I would say, because writing the code is one thing and then running it and maintaining it and, you know, choosing the [00:08:00] proper infrastructure and so on is something else.

Mehmet: And this is, you know, something I believe it's very important. So, so how Smartr can help also like software houses and even like, uh, in, uh, in, in house teams to, to, to manage this, uh, this part of the development cycle.

Rodolph: Yeah, so you mentioned something that I will never create take credit for any day of my life because I'm also not very non technical person The quality that Smartr is built on is thanks to a person I was blessed to have as a partner, which is my partner Hanna.

Rodolph: He is the technical genius behind Smartr essentially and he wrote the code the base code as well as the engine in a certain way that I like to call fluid software development, meaning that you have principles rather than code that you're creating. So basically how, how easy is it to scale to multiple languages, multiple ways of [00:09:00] development, and basically accommodating multiple levels as well as techniques of people.

Rodolph: It's very, very easy because the engine is built to scale to almost any technology. Okay. We've had implementations for C sharp, we're working on an implementation for Node. js, which covers around 80 percent of the market. So, it was built to scale, and it was built to accommodate as much variability as possible.

Rodolph: But are we going full out to please the entire market as of now? It's impossible for us to do that now, and it's not very good for us to do that now. The goal is to basically zero down on a certain Uh, group of very defined people and basically doing something that's absolutely perfect for them and then moving on to something else.

Rodolph: So, yeah, that's the, that's the basic technology technique that we're working with. We built something that's massively scalable, but we're taking our time to make sure that every set of scalability. It's better than the other.

Mehmet: [00:10:00] Yes. Now you mentioned automation and you mentioned like, you know, using AI to write the code.

Mehmet: Um, now there is a school, let's call it and let's say a movement in the, in the, in the market, which talks about low code, no code, right? And I was exploring this by the way, beginning of 2023, actually, even before I knew about it, but I decided to immerse myself a little bit in that area. Um, Of course there are like advantages and disadvantages.

Mehmet: So Rudolf, because you know, you, you're now building this and you also kind of offer Smartr as an alternative to these platforms. So I want to understand from you, like how you differentiate Smartr from like the rest of, of the low code, no code, the platforms in the market.

Rodolph: So the main differentiator is two things.

Rodolph: First one being who we're targeting, who's the end user. And the second one being what we produce. [00:11:00] So low code and no code providers, uh, low code and no code solutions came as a product for citizen developers, which are people with absolutely no software experience and no desire to have any software experience.

Rodolph: So it would allow them to get an MVP out of the door relatively quickly. It would allow them to piece together a certain set of basic functionality that are common to applications directly, and it would satisfy small use cases. And there are, there are the, the local giants like Mendix, OutSystems, et cetera, that have a certain level of, uh, complexity that you can reach to, which is, which is good for enough people.

Rodolph: So, especially given the level of expertise they would have. However, Smartr is not a tool for citizen development. It is a tool for actual developers, which are sometimes the forgotten heroes in a lot of the situations. Because, uh, [00:12:00] the amount of customization and the amount of complexity you can do with Smartr is not something that you can have with low code and low code solutions.

Rodolph: Because even though low code solutions promise you the moon and promise you the MVP out of the door quickly, et cetera, you have a very common problem, which is first and foremost, you get married to the platform for life. When you start using a platform, you're bound to this platform and everything it provides and you cannot move out.

Rodolph: This is number one, which is called vendor lock in essentially, which is the main problem. Second one being there is limited customization because even though you're dragging and dropping, there's only so much you can drag and drop. There is limited customization, which basically limits your growth on the long term.

Rodolph: And finally you have, you have zero access to your IP. There is nothing that you actually own. You're a user on a platform. And finally this is something that's also weird [00:13:00] is that these local no code providers, they provide the solution for people, but how many local no code providers actually use their solution on themselves?

Rodolph: So if you would see a platform such as OutSystems, it is not built using OutSystems. You would need, custom development to build something like that. Whereas Smartr is built on Smartr. We actually use our engine to build and scale our engine. So Smartr itself is designed to accommodate junior developers, mid level developers, and senior developers, and allow them to produce the entire source code with no strings attached.

Rodolph: The source code is available and it integrates directly with your GitHub repository. And it basically allows the developer full access. Completely to source code, built and organized just as if you would have a senior developer developing with you. And this is where the power of Smartr is. An honorable mention to one of our team members, which was a [00:14:00] very nice proof of concept to how a person can develop using Smartr, is our operations manager, Danny.

Rodolph: Danny came around two years ago with absolutely zero knowledge of software development. Super, super basic knowledge. Even even a sub basic so and in a matter of a year and a half he reached the level of a Approximate senior developer and now he's he's handling seven of our projects within the company He develops everything from databases to productions and pipelines.

Rodolph: It's a full full full development He became an actual full stack developer in a single year and a half of operation

Mehmet: Yeah, that's fantastic, Rodolph. And, um, you know, my just two cents now, the no code platforms. I'm not, I'm not talking about the big ones. Honestly, I'm talking about, I'm not talking about like, for example, Mendix or OutSystems, I'm talking about the rest of the market.

Mehmet: So maybe, of course, majority of the audience would be familiar with something like Bubble [00:15:00] and, you know, these things. So from my perspective, two things I noticed, because really I immersed myself in that and I tried to put myself in the shoes of the people. of people who would use this. And what I figured out, it's a, it's, it's good to have an MVP system.

Mehmet: I mean, but again, you need to shift to somewhere else later on because to your point Yeah, the second thing which I always you know raised but I didn't get my answer And this applies now even with ai and i'll tell you what I mean by this. So vendor login in a sense Yes But also you are under the mercy also of the provider because it's a platform as a service And if they decide to raise the prices, you don't have choice If you if they decide to shut down the business, you have no choice Um, it's risky.

Mehmet: It's very risky. Now what I've seen people using NoCode properly with is first, there are some systems that they allow you to export your data, [00:16:00] the data only, not the designs, and then you can import it to something else. And they use it like any form of CRMs, like a basic, uh, you know, listing and all these things.

Mehmet: So very basic application. But to give them credit, they allowed a lot of people to validate ideas using this. I mean, just to be Just to be fair on this now, you mentioned something about AI writing code and I Remember, we discussed also this a couple of times here on the show now will AI in your opinion replace completely Uh a software engineer or AI is going to become kind of the junior software engineer.

Mehmet: And then the senior engineer will just come and, you know, make the final touches and, and, you know, maybe the quality assurance and the security of the application. What's, what's your vision on this, Rodolpho? I would love to hear your opinion.

Rodolph: It's a very, very interesting question to ask. I don't believe in the concept of replacement because [00:17:00] people will always scale their intellect to accommodate better technologies.

Rodolph: And to properly guide better technologies and use better technologies. What is something, what is definitive is that AI is becoming exponentially better. And a person using natural language to create an entire platform will not be something very odd, very odd and very far fetched to achieve. It is something that will happen sooner or later.

Rodolph: However, a human aspect in terms of dealing with clients and dealing with the person actually spending the money to have an application built is something that is still a human specialty in terms of a human dealing with a human, in terms of using expertise to convert a person's idea into actionable steps that can be then given to an AI to execute.

Rodolph: Is a missing link that I think [00:18:00] humans will always fit. And this is the essential part in terms of having the technical knowledge to convert business logic into actual actionable. Technical knowledge, technical implementation, and also having the knowledge to properly envision what the platform will become, and then design your actual software for it to go to that direction.

Rodolph: Because what you would notice with AI, and I'm sure you're a very heavy user of AI, is that if you give it the exact perfect clear cut steps, it will be your best friend. But if you rely on its. and knowledge and with little to no, uh, clear instructions, you will notice that it's just going everywhere because it's still, it's like a four year old, but with the entire world's knowledge, which is I think a very accurate depiction of what it is.

Rodolph: So [00:19:00] will it replace developers? Not necessarily, but people relying on basics to make a living will be side. This is, this is how all technology has worked throughout the years. The person that basically advances with the advancement of technology will always be either ahead of the curve or just riding the wave.

Rodolph: And this is something that is common for all tech, for all areas.

Mehmet: Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you, Rodolph, on this point. And this is again, like majority of the even AI startup founders in the US and in Europe and even here in Dubai. So they say the same. So, so, so AI will accelerate actually. So it will help in accelerating in doing, you know, the repetitive tasks that usually developers do.

Mehmet: Even if they like coding or they love coding, they hate doing repetitive tasks. All of us, we hate doing repetitive tasks. So this, maybe it will shorten the, uh, the development cycle. So maybe if something needs to take six months now, it can take one month or maybe even short. [00:20:00] And of course it will save money because you know, you, you can now, uh, have.

Mehmet: I would say, uh, more impact in the quality of the project that you do, because you know, now you can say, okay, see, like I did this project. I mean, it's a software that has this amount of impact on your business. And I did it in a very short time. So now, you know, like you can have this balance between value and, uh, you know, the, the, the money you ask for it.

Mehmet: Now, Rodolph do usually, I know like you target mainly developers. So the developers are your, uh, ICP, let's call them the ideal customer profile. But if, you know, I'm, I'm asking this out of, of curiosity. So if I am someone. Who's not very technical, right? And I want to on board on Smartr because I have idea and I want maybe to try build something with your platform fits me still to build something or I would need to have like basic knowledge, basic database knowledge, maybe [00:21:00] basic some coding knowledge, you know, what will be the minimum requirement if I'm not a software developer to use Smartr?

Rodolph: Look, so we're doing something that's particularly interesting for this category of users, as well as more advanced category of users, which is, you've seen it a lot, which is people promising the world's first AI software developer and stuff like that. And then going to work without an MVP and 50 million of funding.

Rodolph: We are developing an actual LLM large language model, which is the GPT that everybody knows that communicates with Smartr. and is an actual AI powered software developer. So in your case, for example, you're not someone that will develop. However, what you can do is talk with the AI assistant that we are adding and it would develop for you.

Rodolph: It would configure Smartr for you and it would translate your instructions [00:22:00] into technical implementations for you. And this is where specifically non technical people will find this very, very interesting. So what would happen is you would ask it for something and it would implement. And if you want explanations, it can explain it to you as well.

Rodolph: So this is where, uh, the non technical and technical people would meet. And someone with no technical knowledge would start to acquire technical knowledge at his own pace because he has an instructor that will not, that will never not explain everything going on to him. So this is where it would be particularly interesting for you as well.

Mehmet: Great. And the reason I asked you this, Rudolf, because you know, now our region in general and UAE, Dubai in specific, you know, we start to see this kind of entrepreneurial, you know, eager people who want to start something, but maybe some of them You know, I've talked to a lot of people last year, I mean, in the year before, and when I was asking them, [00:23:00] okay, uh, what's the next step and what you're planning to do?

Mehmet: So they want to have an MVP because they know that the best practice, instead of developing full thing that No one needed is to develop an MVP and they come up with crazy numbers for the cost of an MVP. So would Smartr, you know, also be able to help? I would say at least, I'm not saying zero cost. I'm not telling that it should be 0.

Mehmet: Of course there will be some cost, but at least reduce the crazy numbers that sometimes we see just to develop an MVP.

Rodolph: For sure. Look, there's something very important to think about is the fact that pure, actual good software development is, is not cheap, because if you pay peanuts, you hire monkeys, essentially, especially in this domain.

Rodolph: So it's a matter of what your MVP is and what the complexity of this MVP is. If your MVP is a dashboard, then this is something that particularly practically everyone can implement. But if your [00:24:00] MVP requires rendering and a virtual world and stuff, this is not something cheap as well. But what we can promise is that Smartr will make 80 percent of this process much more streamlined and straightforward so that the 20%, which is the custom business logic that's unique to this startup or this concept in general, would be handled with full focus by the people that have the expertise.

Rodolph: That made sense. So, yeah, the goal is to make customization as easy as possible and as restricted as possible, restricted in a good way, because you're just, you just have to focus on what matters, you know? And does this make the process cheaper? For sure, because a lot of the donkey work is eliminated. And like a fun fact in terms of, we currently have 12 clients managed in our software house.

Rodolph: In order to accommodate the existing clients without anything [00:25:00] else, without any additions of people or projects or whatever, I would need double the headcount that we currently have. So it's kind of, it's, it gives you an idea of the cost saving part of that. And a long term vision of the company itself is Creating a community of developers that is building and using Smartr, building the product and building for themselves.

Rodolph: And you would have a pool of people with verified actual knowledge and levels of development that you could choose from. Because if you're a startup with a 5, 000 budget, you would have a level two developer, for example, develop your concept. But if you're a startup developing a very critical MVP, which, which, with a budget of like 000, then you can get something very good from a poor team of developers or a very highly ranked team of developers.

Rodolph: Simply from the community, no software houses, nothing else, just pure community [00:26:00] usage. And this is one of the things that we're building towards as a company, and this is one of the things that we want to implement. Because what we want from Smartr is to be a platform that helps developers build faster, better, and at a fraction of the cost.

Rodolph: And that basically scales down to developers, development houses, clients, everyone. So everyone would benefit from anything, everything.

Mehmet: Fantastic, Rudolf. And, uh, again, but you mentioned something before, you know, when, when you, when I asked you about the, the, you know, who do you target as Smartr? And I like when you said, you know, we want to start with the small use case and then, you know, later, Now relating to, to the MVP.

Mehmet: So this is always an advice that I repeat again and again, but unfortunately I see people do the mistake again and again is to start on, on just one or two features. Just okay. I'm transparent in, in with my audience. So I'm recording this 22nd of June, [00:27:00] 21st of June. Yesterday I shared, you know, something I saw from the box.

Mehmet: com CEO. And he said, like, we started with the simplest thing and people were laughing at us. But actually, you know box. com, you know, which is similar to Dropbox and the others So so they had the success because they focus on one one feature one feature only So I I tell people go and focus on one feature one segment of the market like one thing right the one thing that you Uh, hypothetically you say, okay.

Mehmet: I think like this people would would use my product. So if you put like five Southern feature in that would not make it good. And I think this is one of the, you know, The things that you you smartly did it was Smartr. I would say Rodolph now overall, how do you see? You know the market landscape when it comes to software development in the MENA in the MENA region And of course, I know like even you have clients beyond that but I mean at least in the MENA region Like what are the trends you are seeing in terms of languages and there's maybe on technology that [00:28:00] they are adopting Because i'm sure like you talk to a lot of clients and you see a lot of things going on So what's what's your point of view on this?

Rodolph: It's it's booming in my opinion, uh, because people would always want new software and new ways to do things and The market here is not something very far from they want to invest in things that work and things that scale You Which is always good when you made it your mission to deliver quality.

Rodolph: People, people fell into a lot of traps and these were a couple of our clients in which they relied on outsourcing overseas or wherever, and they ended up receiving a dismal and Somewhat unusable product, and this is one of the problems in our domain, which has been there for ages, is that, as I mentioned earlier, quality is somewhat hard to find, um, specifically in very niche use cases.

Rodolph: So the, the, the amount of investments for [00:29:00] particularly being made in, in software and AI is refreshing to see, honestly, especially in the region here. And it's expected to become much better and scale much better with the, with the increments and the, the involvement of technology with time. So yeah, it's, it's, it's the best place to be, honestly, Dubai is the best place to be specifically.

Rodolph: It's one of the best decisions I've ever made in my entire life in terms of coming here even before finishing my master's degree, before doing anything. And just, you know, Starting here directly. So it was one of a very good decision and a very verified decision given the amounts of investments and just their aim of making everything easier.

Rodolph: And that's something that's very, very good to go grow in and have as a company, as a person, as everything.

Mehmet: Absolutely, Rodolph. And yeah, I'm, I'm happy to see, you know, also to your point. People, but it took, unfortunately it took us maybe two I would [00:30:00] say 20 years until we understood that quality matters here going and uh going I call them buying uh off the shelf, you know something because I was seeing this a lot At some stage.

Mehmet: Hey, uh, if you want to build an application like Ride hailing similar to uber or kareem. We can provide you. Yeah, of course, but but think about it If it's cheap, is it really cheap on the long run? Like, are you, is it

Rodolph: really the Uber app?

Mehmet: Like, I don't want to go into the details of the technicalities and the functions, but you know, think about it.

Mehmet: If I want to, you know, and this is always, I, I, I tell every, Everyone who decide to build a business whether it's tech business other business. So what's your number one priority? It should be the customers and if you are like getting something cheap and giving to them What do you expect it to be like the highest quality?

Mehmet: Like, okay, even if you put like support agents and you know I [00:31:00] don't know customer relationship managers and all these uh these things like if if your core is is not built on a on a solid uh Ground, how do you expect this to work? So i'm happy that you mentioned this and people yeah I can see that they are now awake And they can, they understand that, yeah, if we need the quality products, yeah, that would cost money.

Mehmet: But guess what? Like this is your return on investment. Later you invest in good quality. You have a better outcome in business later on. Now you mentioned something about being a founder here in Dubai. So, you know, far from the technical aspects and you know, all the, Uh, the functionalities and so on. So your experience as an entrepreneur, Rodolph, like, um, and, and you came, as you mentioned, like just in a, at a young age to Dubai.

Mehmet: So how do you see the entrepreneurial, you know, landscape in Dubai and the region in general, and the support of, of also the, the startup ecosystem, how you are seeing that, uh, [00:32:00] currently?

Rodolph: Look, uh, Hannah and I came to Dubai together. We had practically nothing coming in. So, everything we built, we built from scratch, essentially.

Rodolph: And if you go towards countries outside of the UAE, you might have faced a lot of issues with long processes, people not caring about how long, especially legal things take, and you would have a lot of noise. Noise is a very bad thing in a lot of countries. Because you have enough problems building a company.

Rodolph: It's enough to worry about. You shouldn't have to worry about the third party noises from legal, from government, from infrastructure, from everything. Dubai and the UAE in general have done an amazing job eliminating noise. [00:33:00] And allowing someone to focus on the big problems he's solving, he or she. So that's what they've done amazingly well, and this is something they're always going forward and scaling with, uh, because this, this is the most important part, honestly, in terms of just providing this ecosystem for people to launch and people to think and people to basically try and disrupt technologies and, uh, and over an overall industry.

Rodolph: So yeah, this is, this is in short what, what they've done amazingly well. And this is something I'm very thankful to be a part of. Essentially, in terms of basically being a user in this ecosystem that they've built for young, old, any entrepreneur or any business professional in general.

Mehmet: Right. And also we started to see Rudolf and actually this is how we met.

Mehmet: So [00:34:00] I'm happy to start to see also like communities for startup founders, uh, that are, you know, coming to, to pop up. If you mentioned this, because I'm here, I'm here like. Since 2005 and if I would tell someone something related to startups entrepreneurship Around 2010 2011 people would laugh at me and actually they were laughing at me when I was telling them Hey, like this is how things and I think one day here in dubai We can have the same and now we start to see this is flourishing and this is the moment where you know I see people, you know, just again to keep the transparency just yesterday without mentioning names You know, I spoke to two founders one in the uk You one in the U.

Mehmet: S. They want to move here. And the reason is exactly what you mentioned. They said, like, because we can focus on building the technology, we can focus on going talking to clients and everything else is sorted out by itself. I mean, not by itself. I mean, but I mean, it's very streamlined that you don't even feel it.

Mehmet: Now, Rodolph, final thing for you. If you want to give kind [00:35:00] of a final advice for fellow entrepreneurs and founders and even technical leaders, what you would tell them in one or two sentences and also where people can get in touch with you and know more about Smartr.

Rodolph: Okay. So it's a, it's a single thing.

Rodolph: Just keep trying and just, it will always work out because just good honest work will always be rewarded by clients, by everything. That's the only thing that I have the Credibility to give advice on because I'm practically early on everything that we are building. I don't consider myself an expert yet, so, but what I know is that we are building and that we've been building for four years, and it's something that has always kept us running terms of delivering quality and prioritizing quality over everything else, and just aiming to give good, honest, hard work every single day [00:36:00]

Mehmet: where we can find more about you.

Mehmet: Okay. So,

Rodolph: uh, we're currently on LinkedIn. The website is currently in the works. So Smartrcode. ai. I hope we'd be released by, uh, by the time this podcast gets released. I assume we will. And this is a we'll be we'll be on social media very soon and there's a big marketing campaign coming up So hopefully by the time this comes out We'd be everywhere

Mehmet: Sure, and I will make sure to update the show notes once the if that doesn't come out by that time Uh, and again, I like to be transparent and the audience know this.

Mehmet: So usually we have like a four to Maximum five weeks difference between the recording time and the release time. But Rudolf, of course, I'm going to put your, um, you know, uh, LinkedIn, uh, profile link in the show notes so people can get in touch with you. Really. I enjoyed the conversation. And one thing I need to just a small comment on what you said.

Mehmet: Yes, it's persistence. It's to be honest. And, uh, you [00:37:00] know, keep trying. I like this. I like this world a lot. Keep trying. So you just hit it as they say. And, you know, again, thank you for being with me here today. And this is how usually I end my podcast episodes. So this is for the audience. If you just discovered this podcast by luck, thank you for passing by.

Mehmet: If you enjoyed, please subscribe and share it with your friends and colleagues. I'm trying my best to get, you know, a lot of different approaches from founders, technical leaders, coaches, uh, and across technology, marketing, even mental health. So we have a mix of all these that I think it's healthy for the ecosystem, whether you are a startup founder or whether you are an executive, uh, technology leader.

Mehmet: And again, thank you very much for tuning in. We'll be again very soon. Thank you.

Rodolph: It's amazing to be on your podcast and I love your concept.

Mehmet: So keep it

up.

[00:38:00]