#376 The Power of Physical in a Digital World: Mark Stern’s Approach to Enhancing Customer Journeys

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Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO show with Mehmet. Today I'm very pleased joining me from Austin, Texas, Mark Stern. Mark, the way I love to do it is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves. So tell us a little bit more about you, your background, what you are up to currently, and then we can take it [00:01:00] from there.

Mark: Amazing. Happy to. Uh, Mehmet, thank you. I'm thrilled to be here today. So my name is Mark Stern. My business is the Custom Box Agency. Um, beforehand I'm from Austin, Texas. I was from Alabama originally. Uh, and today what we do is we help clients optimize the customer journey. And, uh, when we get into their business to optimize their journey, our deliverables that we create are these physical box experiences.

Mark: And you can see examples of some of our work right behind me, but we love to do the physical experience because a lot of businesses are so heavily on the digital footprint. How do we mix digital and physical? And when you bring the two worlds together and you have a really well defined, uh, customer journey, there's just so much power of things that you can evoke, you can leverage that as sales collateral, you can introduce new means to monetize your business and extend lifetime value.

Mark: Um, but part of what we do is really focus on how do we help our customers get results faster? And so really getting into the heart of what is it that they truly need? Um, that's what we specialize in and we bring it to life with these box experiences that we create. Um, but yeah, that's a high level overview of us.[00:02:00]

Mehmet: Great. And thank you again for being here with me today, Mark. So, uh, I know like you have a, you know, you did some, uh, you know, uh, change from, from corporate to entrepreneurship and it's like a bold transition. So, uh, what can you share what motivated you to do this shift? And you were like working with Deloitte and you know, like, uh, some people, they say, okay, like if I'm having such kind of job, why I should go and take all the risks.

Mehmet: So I like to hear these stories.

Mark: Yeah, no. So I was, uh, when I grew up in Alabama, um, you know, I was wired that there's just a natural progression to life that you graduate high school, you go to college, you graduate college, you get the job, eventually you go back to grad school, and then you have the dream job in the home, and the white picket fence, and the family, and that's life.

Mark: And, you know, I followed that path to a T. Um, I graduated and got my MBA at Duke, uh, graduated in 2012 and then went to work for Deloitte right after business school. [00:03:00] And, um, at that time, um, you know, I'd followed that path and I was 165, 000 in student loan debt. And then when you sign a contract with a big company like Deloitte.

Mark: Um, I'm now committed for two years at this firm at minimum. And so I was just kind of looking at my life going, is this, is this it? Cause I felt the weight of all the debt and all of a sudden I had this amazing corporate job, but it was my life. Uh, I was a road warrior. I would travel, um, every Monday at 4 45, a cab would pick me up, take me to the airport.

Mark: I would fly to my client. I'd fly back on Thursday or Friday night, and then Monday I would do it again. And that was my life for years. So you kind of just get in the mindset of, is this it, is this what it was meant to be? And, um, I was at this crossroads between. Uh, becoming a junior partner at the firm or like scratching this inner desire to explore the digital marketing realm, the online entrepreneurship realm.

Mark: And years earlier, I got exposed to it through a conference. I went through to, uh, Mindvalley's A Fest [00:04:00] and it kind of introduced this world of digital marketing and it kind of, Disrupted the bubble of the world that I was living in because I thought the corporate path was the path. And all of a sudden I got exposed to, there's a different way to be fulfilled, to have like, to like pursue a career that really fuels you and energizes you.

Mark: And that was the crossroads I was at. Uh, this was 2018. Um, had a moment in time of, do I want to do what's predictable in state Deloitte, uh, and become partner and be there until 62, where they force you to retire. Yeah. Or this unpredictable explore entrepreneurship. Um, and, um, I had this moment in, uh, in the 2017 transitioning into 2018 between Christmas and new year.

Mark: So it was. I don't know how else to describe it, but a weird premonition that if I stayed in my corporate job, it would kill me. And it was like the catalyst that woke me up to say, you've had this inner desire to explore entrepreneurship. Um, now's the time to do it. And when I made the leap, uh, I put my notice in [00:05:00] at Deloitte.

Mark: It was January 3rd, 2018. Um, and I remember thinking, I have no idea what business I would explore, uh, as an entrepreneur. Um, but just had the belief that if I could release the mental capacity, that was my corporate job, which occupied 98 percent of my brain capacity. If I could let it go, then I can at least free up the space to get creative again and then find what I'm truly passionate about, which eventually led me down the road to a series of different ventures that kind of explored and exposed, um, my love for, uh, experience design, optimizing the customer journey and coming full fold with what is today Custom Box Agency.

Mehmet: Great. I love to hear these stories I told you, Mark. Now, yeah. Coming to, you know, I'm, I'm, I worked as a consultant. I worked, you know, as, uh, you know, I was on the other side of the table and I always appreciate someone, you know, if I'm the client to let me feel, you know, I'm taken care of, right. [00:06:00] And what I tried to do when I, I started to work on the other side is how I can make sure that, you know, I'm giving the best, you know, customer experience, but from what you do today is a little bit different.

Mehmet: And like, it's a little bit original, I would say, so walk me through, like, how did you get the idea of, you know, leveraging, you know, this. Physical world, uh, experience into even maybe for for some companies that they might, as you said, like just digitally available. So you know, what was like the point that you've seen?

Mehmet: Okay, like this is no one else have done it. And, you know, I should explore this. So what, what, how was that a moment? And you know, how did you decide to start it?

Mark: Yeah, it's such a great question. It's, uh, back in 2018, um, right after I left corporate America, I was trying to figure out what is it that I want to do.

Mark: And a friend of mine was like, you should consider hosting a virtual summit and a virtual [00:07:00] summit, typical, excuse me, typical model. You'll interview, um, and it's pre recorded about 25 to 40 influencers. Different stakeholders with whatever the theme of the summit is. And it's like, you're running your own virtual conference.

Mark: It's great for Legion. It's great to increase exposure out in the marketplace. And I was like, this is a cool platform. Uh, and ended up doing, uh, 40 interviews. I think it may have been 42 people that I interviewed and compiled this virtual event where you release a subset of the speakers every day over the course of five days, and I was just looking at all this content going, I'm doing the virtual summit by the playbook, exactly how other people are doing it.

Mark: And it's overwhelming. There was such an overwhelming amount of content because each of these interviews was. 45 minutes to an hour. So it was about 40 hours worth of content that was produced. And then I'm expecting that a recipient or an attendee of this event is going to consume 40 hours worth of content.

Mark: Um, and ultimately a lot of these are designed to eventually get people to buy. Um, a higher [00:08:00] ticket product and service. And I'm looking at this going, I'm overwhelmed hosting this event. I just wish someone would send me all the tools and resources I need to understand how to navigate this experience to get the most out of it for me.

Mark: So how do I get people results faster? And at the time, um, what I did was I turned all the speakers into a publication that was called entrepreneur elements, and it had a lot of information on the forefront of like building a business online and then But then it had a spread that represented every speaker interview that I did.

Mark: And what I didn't expect was, you know, I said to people, if you buy a ticket to this virtual event, I'll mail you off this publication. And as people started to receive the publication and the speaker started to receive the publication, they started doing videos, showing off their spreads. People who received the publication took pictures with it and would post it on social media.

Mark: Um, and all these people were teaching it to their Facebook groups. So I'm watching all these people interact with this physical piece and pulling it back to a digital experience. And for me, it was kind of [00:09:00] this sign of, um, there's something that's more to physical and digital combined. And what was really cool was when we did the next virtual summit, I didn't want to do 40 people.

Mark: I did 10 people. And this is the first time we ever built a box experience, but I was able to take those 10 interviews, produce a lot of tools and resources. And that virtual event was all about high ticket selling. How do you sell a high ticket product or service? How do you position it? How do you do all of the steps around it?

Mark: And what was so cool was When we sent out this box experience to people who attended, they started doing unboxing videos. So we were getting more organic traffic as a result. And these videos were like three to seven minutes long. And almost everyone who received this box, even though other people were doing unboxings of the exact same content, wanted to do their own unboxing videos.

Mark: So they became the evangelist to the product. And it was this instant realization of there's something more to an experience when you're able to successfully blend. Physical and digital. Um, and what's really [00:10:00] cool about it is the more we started testing this, more people started coming to us saying, how are you doing this?

Mark: How are you building out these experiences? Um, and for the longest time, I just told people, here's how to do it. Uh, launched a product to teach other people how to do it. And the opposite happened, which was they wanted me to build their boxes out. Cause they love the quality of how we produced our box experiences.

Mark: And, um, that led way to custom box agency COVID happened at the beginning of 2020. So. It was May, 2020 that we went all in on boxes in this business. And the business just took off from there. Um, and now the point of view and perspective has just evolved across so many different verticals, service providers, software as a service company, e commerce, um, uh, info products, coaching programs, so many different verticals can leverage the same exact strategy.

Mark: And it's perceived by the audience as being innovative and creative. And something different to really elevate that brand experience.

Mehmet: Fantastic. Now, Mark, you know, you just mentioned something because I was [00:11:00] planning to ask you about who, you know, who are your ultimate, you know, customers from your end.

Mehmet: And you mentioned Software as a Service and you mentioned eCommerce. All of these also. Yeah. So what I'm just trying to understand. So if I'm today and I'm asking this because, you know, putting myself in the shoes of a startup, SaaS startup founder, right. Who's trying to get some traction. Now, if I come to you, you know, what would be the concept that I can utilize using the boxes and the unboxing that happens later?

Mehmet: So, you know, I can get this traction. Don't get me wrong. Um, I really like this idea because It's it's not what the others does. It's not a mainstream thing. So

Mark: yeah, so happy to answer your question. I'll just show you some examples just to kind of

Mehmet: Um,

Mark: a lot of what we get into is what is it that people say?

Mark: [00:12:00] And if you understand what you naturally save and understand the reason why you save it There's a lot of information in terms of when we think about a box experience for your business to think about so for instance Our most popular size box is a box. It's a little bit bigger than a book and you'll see we'll brand the spine.

Mark: It looks like a book on the back. It has information about this. This is a program. This is a coaching box. So the reset with Miranda, Miranda teaches people how to get into the best shape of their lives. So she teaches a blend of nutrition and fitness. Um, and with the boxes, you know, this is a, one of a series of boxes that are being released, but why do we like the size?

Mark: We like the size because, um, when you read a book. You don't throw out a book. You typically put a book on a bookshelf. So, why don't we design boxes to contain your business story that are about the size of a book so people, we can brand the spine, we can put it on a bookshelf. I may say that this is box one of four, which signals to your audience that if there's a series of things that they need to do, they need to collect all the pieces so they're going to want to stay engaged to get the full anthology or sequence.

Mark: [00:13:00] And any box, most of our box experiences, about 30 to 50 pieces. It sounds like a lot, but think about a board game board game has tons of pieces, but when it's assembled, it's beautiful. It's elegant. It's well organized in terms of that box experience. And again, that's another example. When you have things that have replayability, like a board game, you're going to keep them long.

Mark: You don't play Monopoly once and throw it out. Monopoly becomes the box becomes the container of the experience. And every time you go through it, it's like a new experience. So even thinking through the strategy of the story inside the box, how do I encourage that repeatability? So people can come back to it again and again, I can go through the experience inside the box for your business today.

Mark: And in six months, I may go through it again and have a completely different breakthrough. And that's because our environment changes, like we change, we evolve. What's relevant to us today may not be what's relevant to us tomorrow. What gets our attention today may evolve as well. So that's why in a typical box experience, we always have a welcome note.

Mark: We always have a getting started guide. So how do I get started with your products and services? See to me, the universe [00:14:00] of all the things that you have to offer showcase to me where the starting point is and what tools and resources I have access to. Beyond that, we always include what we call a journey map, which is almost like the game board.

Mark: How do I navigate through the product or service that I bought? It doesn't matter if you're a coach with a coaching program. If you have a virtual event, a course, uh, if you have a software as a service, think about the first 30 days, how do I get people utilizing my platform? Cause they know if I can get you utilizing it in the first 30 days, the sticking factor and the stay factor is much higher, all of that can be gamified in terms of a box experience.

Mark: And then the other things we always look to say is. What other tools and resources do they need? So for instance, if you have worksheets that you expect your people to download to engage with your products and services, you just put up an obstacle because you're assuming they have a printer. It has paper, the printer has ink, it's hooked up to my computer.

Mark: When I do print it, I'm organized. Uh, I know how to organize everything out. There's just a lot of things that if something goes wrong. You just stop them in their tracks to say, someday I'll get around to doing that so I can do this [00:15:00] program. That's the situations that we say, if it's a potential obstacle, print out a workbook, put it inside the box, give them everything they need.

Mark: So when they show up, everything is inside the box to be able to start that experience right away and get them results faster. So that's a lot of what we look at for these experiences.

Mehmet: Love that, you know, like it's a very original idea and, uh, I'm a big fan of anything when it comes to customer journey and, you know, guiding, guiding customers.

Mehmet: It's like immediately it hooks me. So now one thing you also, you know, of course, like I, I did my research before this episode, obviously. And I figured out that, you know, you, you talk a lot about, um, secrets to customer, loyalty, like unlocking these secrets, right? So can you share like some insights how you've discovered about like, what truly drives, you know, customers to become loyal, [00:16:00] especially, you know, what we are, we know this for a fact.

Mehmet: Um, Probably there are a lot of competitors and everyone's trying to take, uh, their, their piece of the cake. And, you know, loyalty here is really hard to achieve in today's market. So what can you share on that with us, Mark?

Mark: With customer loyalty. Um, one thing I will say is, um, one of the biggest challenges I see a lot of businesses don't do well is define what success looks like.

Mark: So I think it's important that like, we can define that if you hire me, here's the outcome. But it's important to us to define success. And what I mean by that, a perfect example is, um, if I'm running a marathon, I like to do Spartan races, Spartans or mud runs, uh, with like a bunch of obstacle courses, uh, obstacles in it.

Mark: And, um, what's really cool about the Spartan race is like any race you do a five K a Spartan race, a marathon. There's three key phases. There's the preparation that happens before, and then there's the race, and then there's post [00:17:00] race. And there are certain markers that tell me without a shadow of a doubt, where I am in this process.

Mark: When I crossed the starting line, I'm no longer prepping for the race. I'm in the race. When I crossed the finish line, it's without a shadow of a doubt that I've completed the race. And oftentimes I'll get a metal and all these are signals that define success. If I have that metal. Uh, if I had that t shirt that comes at the end of the race, then it's without a shadow of a doubt that I have successfully completed this.

Mark: People know the ClickFunnels realm, the ClickFunnels realm, ClickFunnels is a, uh, software as a service platform that you can build your website on, your sales funnel on. Um, and a lot of people love ClickFunnels because they are striving for the two comma club award. They have built this award that if you make a million dollars, uh, using ClickFunnels.

Mark: Um, you'll be able to walk on stage and get this framed record. So it's a powerful recognition play. But again, when you have that, like you have successfully accomplished that part of the journey. And so when we think about it, a lot of businesses I look at, I'm like, how do you define [00:18:00] success and what success looks like?

Mark: So people know what they're striving for without a shadow of a doubt. You know, it's easy to say if my goal, I'm a white belt. And, uh, Taekwondo and I want to collect all, uh, and I want to become a black belt as you collect all the belts between white and black, like, you know, that you're one step closer to achieving that because they've defined success.

Mark: If you desire and want the black belt. You know the steps that you need to do to achieve it, but it's very black and white. And when you do pass the test and get the black belt, it's undeniable that you achieve that mission. So a lot of what I like to see is do we have a defined journey that people can follow?

Mark: Because if you don't, what happens is they try and in their head, put all the pieces together. It can get overwhelming. Chaos may pursue. So how do we just make it really simple for businesses to do that? And in doing that and clearly defining that customer journey, you just unlock so much potential, uh, to serve your customers.

Mark: So that's a lot of what we look at in terms of that for me, sometimes the loyalty factor isn't obvious to me until I get [00:19:00] into the journey and I start to see the quick wins and the results, and so this is why having that journey, defining success. at the end, um, giving me something to strive for is really powerful.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Now, anything, um, you know, because like this is also, it's related to their branding, uh, Mark, right? So anything that they need to, uh, give more attention, I mean, because there are a lot of options out there, right? So what do you advise them usually to focus on to stand out? Uh, like, is it like the brand itself?

Mehmet: What exactly?

Mark: So for me, I'm such a brand junkie because for us, digital experience and physical experience need to be one experience. So it feels the connection between physical to digital. But I mean, if you're asking me around branding, branding builds identity. The power of identity is I can identify with you.

Mark: I can better connect with you. If I see things in the marketplace, when people see boxes [00:20:00] that are shaped like this in the marketplace, people know it's custom box agency because it's so much a part of our brand that this is one of our flagship shapes and sizes. That if you see it, it's probably one of our boxes and people can see a certain aesthetic and flair that when they see someone post it, I've had people comment on posts of boxes that I've never said that that's one of ours, that they just know our style and they know how are I, when it comes to it and the fact that they can attribute that quality back to us, even when it's not even branding custom box agencies, the power of branding.

Mark: And so for me, I am, there's a certain quality control that if I'm going to put my name on it, I want people to know that, um, it's going to be at that standard, but that's part of my brand identity. And that's something that when people see, I want them to have the, like the assurance that if you're working with Mark Stern or Custom Box Agency, they're going to have a high perceived quality product.

Mark: Um, but that's part of the identity that we're trying to put out in the marketplace. So that's why I think it's important from a loyalty perspective. Um, but it's just cool to see that like when you establish that unique identity or that [00:21:00] signature style, um, how powerful it is for people to know, okay, that is one of you, like that is part of this brand.

Mehmet: Yeah, make absolutely make sense. No. Now, you know, part of what we talked about so far, whether it's like the customer experience and you know, the loyalty, it leads to something that I think, you know, businesses, they need to think, and especially startups about like very important two terms. And here I want to, to understand from you Mark, how you can help providing, you know, what you provide today in increasing the customer.

Mehmet: What is known as lifetime value LTV and reducing the churn, right? So, so where, where, what you offer, you know, comes into the picture in increasing LTV and reducing churn.

Mark: Yeah. So part of this is, and this is the power of, again, having a clearly defined customer journey. So anytime we work with a client to look at what's the journey to get them to this outcome, you're selling [00:22:00] something in your product or service.

Mark: So when I go to your website, when I go buy, purchase it, you're making a promise. Where we always start and defining journey is the back anchor. So what is the promise? So what does success look like? So when you start there and get very clear, it just makes it so I know what the backend anchor is. Then we go to the front and say, let's look at your own boarding process.

Mark: We call it start here. What is the front end look like? How well are you educating and equipping people of the journey that they're about to go on? So if I have my two anchors, Of the back ended anchor. Here's what we're trying to achieve the front ended anchor. Here's how we're going to educate you. And, uh, so you know how to navigate this journey and then you may have phases, phase one, two, three, four, five, two, getting this outcomes.

Mark: Just by having that piece defined is really powerful. What we look at in every phase is what is this phase? What is the outcome of this today? So by the time I'm complete with phase one, when I finished on boarding or phase one or phase two or phase three. Okay. What is the phase? What's the outcome? And then what does success look like by the end of this [00:23:00] phase?

Mark: Just having those markers as they navigate is really, really powerful. To answer your question around attrition, a big reason that people, um, uh, may refund in the first 30 days of a product or services because they feel overwhelmed. They don't feel like they've been set up for success. And a lot of that's because the journey has not been defined and if they feel overwhelmed, they're going to take it back on themselves and say, I must be the reason why I'm confused and therefore I'd rather hide or get a refund.

Mark: But if I can show you, hey, let me educate you, and you think about a lot of establishments. Before I started college, I had an orientation. That's like a start here. Let me teach you how to navigate the on campus experience. Um, those same models. A lot of times before you play a board game, it's important to read the instructions to teach you how to play the board game.

Mark: Otherwise, chaos will pursue because you're trying to figure out, Can I go left? Can I go right on the Monopoly board? No, there's rules for that. Uh, same thing in video games, typically video games teach you how to use the controller and navigate the screen before you go as business owners. Are we doing the same [00:24:00] thing?

Mark: Are we educating our people and setting them up for success before they start that journey? And if so, typically you'll see a reduction in churn just because people can see what they can need to do. And now if they know what to do, we can get them into momentum to say, all you need to do is complete phase one.

Mark: Okay. Congratulations. You've completed wait phase one. Now I'll just go to phase two. And every time they complete a phase, they're one more step closer to that desired outcome. So that's a lot of what we look at. And that's what I would tell anyone that we're working at. Get clear on what you're asking people to achieve, like what successes.

Mark: Get clear on making sure you have a well defined onboarding process. And then it's just about building the ladder or mapping the bridge from one end to the other to connect those pieces.

Mehmet: Absolutely. You know, very clear to me, uh, how that contribute to, to, to the LTV and the churn now, you know, people loves to hear success stories and use cases is Mark.

Mehmet: So I'm interested to know, like, if you can share with us, you know, any. You know, results that, you know, one of your [00:25:00] customers, you don't have to name if you cannot, but that's fine. At least the industry, you know, how they benefited, you know, what we know, how the results were compared, you know, with what they used to do before versus using your services.

Mark: Yeah. So we had a client that did a challenge. Um, he teaches people print on demand, um, and how to start your own print on demand storefront. When we introduced the box experience and we gamified it. Um, almost like you're becoming this undercover detective. He wanted this theme to come to life. Um, when we introduced the box, it doubled his conversion rate on the front end, and then it doubled his conversion rate for his higher ticket offer on the back end.

Mark: So that was just from introducing the box experience. We have someone in the financial services space teaching people financial freedom. Um, they had a 17 percent increase in show rate. And their highest record years in terms of conversion, once we introduced that box experience. So they were hosting a virtual event to see numbers that are that high.

Mark: Um, [00:26:00] just because we introduced the box, they were hitting records only in the only thing that changed was they introduced the box, um, but to see the front end and the back end, uh, it was huge. We had another client, um, who did a huge launch for a. Course and coaching program hybrid. When we introduced the box experience, um, they sold about 3, 500 units, which is insane.

Mark: Uh, there were 2, 000 a pop for each unit. So this was a multimillion dollar launch. And when we introduced the box experience, the one thing that we did that was different was say, we're happy to give you a refund. All you need to do is send us back your box. And of 3, 500 units that were purchased, uh, 19 people, uh, requested for a refund and sent back their box.

Mark: So they had the lowest attrition rate, uh, which is huge to say 3, 500 units of 2k a pop. And you had 19 people you're talking about less than, uh, 1%, um, refunding. When industry standard is significantly higher than that, the beanie of a product. So those are just some examples of the power of using physical and [00:27:00] digital.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Yeah, makes sense. Now, I'm not big fan of expecting, you know, things because things can change fast. But, you know, what you're seeing, you know, some, some emerging trends, uh, within the customer experience design space. Um, that are changing currently. And how do you think, you know, businesses should be prepared for them?

Mark: I mean, I think the biggest disruptor right now is AI, just seeing the role that AI is playing in, in disrupting businesses, it's interesting to see that we were already a stage that billions of pieces of digital content were being released daily because the barriers to creating content were so low that was pre AI.

Mark: So we're talking pre January. Uh, it was really just January, 2023, that AI has really started to, uh, rev up over the last year, year and a half. And now you're seeing with AI, we were already seeing so much digital content being released daily. Now it's exponentially more because [00:28:00] AI just makes content creation so easy.

Mark: And so I don't think AI is going to be something that replaces it. And I think people are getting smarter with AI and noticing that like, you can almost read something and know that this wasn't written by a human. It was written by AI. Um, but the question that I will ultimately look at is how do you disrupt now an even more flooded system?

Mark: I think we're going to see that merriment of physical and digital even more so. Um, the other trends that we've been playing with that I'm pretty excited about is, um, the cool thing about something like a QR code, QR codes, and, uh, just the use cases around QR codes have barely scratched the surface. And what I love about a QR code is any cell phone with your camera reader can also be a QR code reader.

Mark: So now we have in our pockets, a device. That is a perfect gateway between physical and digital and seeing this merriment between the physical realm and the digital realm is really powerful. So things that we're testing right now with, um, QR codes is, uh, for example, like I can take a water bottle and put a QR code on it.

Mark: And then [00:29:00] I can preschedule out where this goes. So if you scan the water bottle QR code on Monday, it's a different experience than if you scan it Tuesday and setting the automation around that. So I think that you're going to see a lot more trends of QR codes not being a means for a restaurant to share a menu, but it means that I can beam information to you no matter where you are.

Mark: And the fact that I could do something like that on a water bottle where it's the Monday workout or the Tuesday workout, if you're in the personal fitness space. Or the Monday mindset, Tuesday mindset. If you're in the mindset space, um, just as a means to like send your proprietary content direct to your consumers, and it doesn't have to be a water bottle, it could be anything.

Mark: It could be a sticker, it could be a key chain, it could be a magnet that you put in your fridge and you beam new meal plans each month. Um, if you teach people like family meal plan prep, the use cases of now leveraging physical to digital. And for us, a lot of what we look at is the things we save, how do I engineered in a way that.

Mark: You know, if you had a water bottle with a QR code, that's constantly changing versus a water bottle that has no QR code to me, I think the fact that this [00:30:00] is always evolving makes it a lot more interesting. And so you see that, like, I think we're going to start seeing a lot more opportunities to say, how do I create those gateways to easily send information to my customers in a new and innovative way?

Mehmet: Absolutely. And you know, to your point, Mark, I hear more and more from people, you know, they want actually this connection between the physical and the virtual. There's kind of a nostalgia if, if you want like to, uh, something, okay, we need, we need the digital to lead us to the physical, right. And, uh, you know, I spoke to a lot of founders who are trying to do something similar where, you know, you're as to your point, the gateway is digital, but then it leads you to the physical experience, which is, Uh, more and more, uh, becoming, you know, people because they, they, they missed, they missed the physical world.

Mehmet: I believe you want to say something.

Mark: No, I was just going to say, well, I, of course I agree with you on this, but I would say pre internet days, you're talking early nineties. Everything was physical. My father, like you [00:31:00] could find in the back of a magazine, an ad that you can then call 1 800 number. You see an ad on TV.

Mark: Um, or you get something in the mail and they ship it to you in the mail. Um, and it's funny cause my father has cassette tapes on courses. I think there's like real estate investing courses and Tony Robbins courses that he had bought in the nineties that still to this day, take up real estate in his home.

Mark: Um, and then we went so extremely digital that we lost like the kinesthetic. We lost the physical and barriers to entry are so much lower. In the digital game and there's just so much information. I think trust of that information has plummeted because there's so much stuff on the internet that a powerful way of blending the two is when you do see that growth of physical and digital all of a sudden it feels like a new opportunity bringing back what was such a legacy experience.

Mark: To this modern age. And that for me is just like, that's what I get excited about because it just truly feels like a different experience than, Oh, I'm now sitting down and [00:32:00] watching, um, 10 hours worth of course, content from someone. And I'm just sitting here and I have nothing in front of me, except just me, uh, staring at the screen.

Mark: So it was like, how do we provide something that's a little bit more dynamic experiences seen through the senses, digital products are only what you see and what you hear. Used to tie it with physical. You bring in the kinesthetic touch, taste, and smell. In addition to what you see in here.

Mehmet: Absolutely. You know, and I remembered also, and, uh, I used to order these, uh, I was, you know, like following the electronics at that time in the early nineties and computers.

Mehmet: Uh, and I was ordering the magazine all the way from Europe, you know, and sometime from the U S and you know, when you get it and you see, and when the internet came out, they used to do something very nice. So you have, you know, the experience there and they say, okay, if you want to see like, Uh, something you can download the software from there.

Mehmet: So you know, like it was an amazing experience. I can, I can relate to that. Now, Mark, any plans to expand outside of the US? I mean, do you have already any operations outside of the US?

Mark: Um, you [00:33:00] know, we've worked with clients all over the world. Uh, Europe, uh, we have one active that working with right now from India, uh, Australia, um, worked with people all over the place.

Mark: Um, for us, the question is we can work with anyone globally. Um, we work on and we strategize with our clients so we can get into their business. That's what I'd love to do is just really delve into their business. We can do all the design and then we have a warehouse in Austin, Texas. So for our clients, most of them want us.

Mark: When we produce these experiences to hold their inventory and ship it on out on their behalf. And we have the systems for that. I always tell clients if 50 percent or more of your clientele is outside the U S don't do shipping from our fulfillment center in, uh, in Austin, Texas. Find someone a mom and pop that are more local and closer to the people that you serve.

Mark: But if more than 50 percent of your clientele is us based, which we have international clients that have predominantly us based clientele, um, reach out, um, like us, that's a perfect situation that we can handle that part of the process, but we don't have to do the fulfillment. We [00:34:00] can do the strategy and the design and prep it for you and ship it your entire box set.

Mark: If you had, uh, 500, a thousand, 5, 000, 10, 000 units, we can get it out to anywhere. Um, ready and assembled. Um, but that's kind of like the one role I'll say. So we'll work with people globally. Um, uh, we'll expand warehouses, uh, beyond Austin, Texas, and have a couple more locations in the United States. Um, and then if the need is there, we would explore, are there certain pivotal parts in the world that we'd want to set up operations, but right now the strategy and consulting and the design work we can do, you know, we can do anywhere,

Mehmet: cool, good to know.

Mehmet: Yeah. So. Uh, as we are close to end Mark, uh, you know, this is a traditional question I ask if, if you want to, uh, leave us today with something and advice you can give to fellow entrepreneurs, uh, and do something special, what would, would be?

Mark: Yeah. One thing that I like to tell people is, um, if you're familiar with the law of reciprocity, um, [00:35:00] I am someone who I want good people to win.

Mark: Like I truly want other people to win. And a lot of reciprocity will tell us, well, if that's true, then other people want me to win. And I think that this is an important concept for entrepreneurs because one of the things that, uh, you know, when you ask yourself the question, how do I make it? Easier for other people to help me win.

Mark: If you are a generalist in what you do and you are like, let's just use an example in the online space. I know people who do YouTube videos and Facebook ads and website building. You do so many things that it, you make it hard for your customers or your, your friends, families, peers, to be able to recommend you because you do a little bit of everything.

Mark: When I was in corporate consulting, they loved you to be the world's greatest generalist. Entrepreneurship does not celebrate you being the world's greatest generalist. They want you to be known for one thing and to truly niche down. So when I niche down to boxes and these customer journey experiences, all the things that we're doing around the boxes, When people say who do, who does [00:36:00] boxes, it's really easy for other people to say, mark Stern and custom box agency, go reach out to them because I made it really easy to say, this is the land that we play in.

Mark: Um, if we did a little bit of everything, like, and someone else, if I did YouTube videos and Facebook ads and website building, but someone else did exclusively YouTube videos and someone needed someone who was a YouTube expert, if you do a little bit of everything versus the person who's all in on one thing could to dedicate their headspace to that one thing.

Mark: they're always going to beat you out because they truly specialize in it and they make it easy for other people to help them win. So as an entrepreneur, that's the challenge is think about what you're doing. Think about your value prop niche down so you can be known for one thing. It's okay to service multiple things, but lead with one thing that you're known for because it makes it so much easier for other people to help you win.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Finally, Mark, where people can find more about you and about your agency.

Mark: They can go to customboxagency. com. You can always look me up, Mark [00:37:00] Stern, on Facebook or LinkedIn. You can message me directly. Those are all different ways that you can get a hold of me.

Mehmet: Great. I will make sure that the links are in the show notes or in the description if you're watching this on YouTube.

Mehmet: Mark, really, I enjoyed the conversation. Really, it's a, you know, original concept. I like it. And I'm sure also the insight that you gave why, you know, we need, especially when we talked about, um, you know, bridging between the physical and digital, I think this is something, uh, very important, especially in, in, in these days.

Mehmet: So thank you for sharing all this information and the insights. Uh, from you. Really? I appreciate it. And usually this is how I end my episodes. This is for the audience. If you just discovered this podcast by luck, thank you for passing by. I hope you enjoyed. If you did, please give us some ups and, you know, subscribe to the podcast.

Mehmet: We are available on all podcasting platforms. We are available also on YouTube and please share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you are one of the people who keeps coming [00:38:00] and, you know, keep sending me their suggestions, comments, and compliments, thank you for doing so. Keep doing that. I read all your suggestions.

Mehmet: I tried to take them into consideration. So thank you for doing this. Thank you very much for tuning in and we'll meet again very soon. Thank you. Bye.