#382 Speaking Up in Tech: Geoffrey Huck’s Journey from Introvert to Influencer

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Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet. Today I'm very pleased joining me, Jeff Huck. Jeff, the way I love to do it is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves. So tell us a little bit more about you, your background, and what you're currently up to. So the floor is [00:01:00] yours.

Geoffrey: Yes, Mehmet, I'm very happy to be here. Hello, hello to our listeners. My name is Jeffrey Huck, or in French, Jeff. I'm called Geoffrey Huck, but you can call me Jeff. It's perfectly fine. I like to say it's my international name. So I can introduce me with a little bit of background. I hope I will not be too long.

Geoffrey: I used to be extremely passionate about computers from a very young age and I wanted to know how they work. I also was. Very intrigued by hacking. So I learned coding very early on and later in high school, my passion was algorithmic contests. So I used to solve algorithms on my evenings, holidays, weekends.

Geoffrey: I did some contests. I even participated in the international Olympiad in informatics in 2007. And as you might guess. [00:02:00] A passion like this has its cost. And in my case, it was my social skills. I struggled a lot with social skills. But later on I became a freelancer first as a software engineer and then as a consultant.

Geoffrey: One of the reason I became a freelancer, you can perfectly do your life without any social contact. And that was exactly what I wanted. So it was perfect. But then you know what happens when you have a problem and you don't fix it. It grow bigger until it was really unbearable. I had no idea. Many dreams, aspirations.

Geoffrey: I knew I wanted to do something great, but my inability to connect with people, my inability to speak in front of just one or an audience, it was just so overwhelming that I felt completely blocked. So at that point I had a, I had a wake up call and I decided to do everything that scares me [00:03:00] because I wanted to overcome it at all costs.

Geoffrey: And at that time I switched into doing whatever I fear. So first it was networking events. Um, I also traveled, went to place, to new places. And I started public speaking, I did open scene, improv, poetry. Then I joined a public speaking club, Toastmasters. Maybe some of your listeners might know. It's an international organization with clubs all around the world, where you can learn public speaking.

Geoffrey: And I started to really love it. I also did animations in bars. I really, everything that was related to speaking, and to put me in uncomfortable situations, I did that. And what I realized is that I started to like it so much and I started to give advice to people and they would come to me and ask me how I do.

Geoffrey: And, uh, and I started to become really great at it until I realized public speaking is not something that I like even more, [00:04:00] even more than tech, completely unexpected. So I started with a big tech and geek background and now I am a public speaking coach.

Mehmet: Sorry. What a fantastic, uh, you know, journey, uh, Jeff and, uh, inspiring at the same time.

Mehmet: You know, of course we're gonna deep dive with a lot of, uh, Of the topics you just mentioned, you know, because usually as I was explaining to you before we start the the recording so I target tech people in tech and I target also like founders and entrepreneurs and I have technical background as well and I can exactly relate To the few things that you just mentioned.

Mehmet: Um The way I love to I would say demystify, you know, how this can be done. So take it like one step forward back maybe. So there's a say that, you know, usually, especially [00:05:00] technical people like us, I mean, from technical background, they have challenges to explain things with our, like, let's say with clarity for non tech audiences.

Mehmet: So why is that? Like, what are like these common challenges that they face when, when they try to explain, uh, You know, come back, come out from, from their technical hat and try to speak to people not in that domain.

Geoffrey: Yeah, there are many challenges to do that and many people struggle with this specific topic.

Geoffrey: And, uh, great thing to know is that most of the blocks that we can have when we talk about those complex topics are mental blocks. And what I mean by that. Is that you, you Mehmet, and you were listening this, even if you have great technical skills, you also know how to speak naturally. It's something that you already [00:06:00] know when you talk to your best friends, when you talk to your family, with people you're completely, completely at ease with.

Geoffrey: You have no problem to be natural and to speak naturally. Usually the problem comes. When we are in a high stake situation, when there is something that we are, if we fail, I might not get something. And if I succeed, I might get something. And this is when things starts to be a bit crazy in our mind. And as tech people, we, we grow and we are recognized as smart human beings.

Geoffrey: Usually if you meet someone who's non tech and they meet someone who's deeply into tech, they say, Oh, you must be so smart. And so we grow with this and we start to get the habit of, Oh yeah, I must be smart because I'm, I'm no tech. And the problem with this is that then we don't want to leave this mask.

Geoffrey: We [00:07:00] want to somehow confirm that we indeed are smart. And if we want to convince people we are smart, then, you know, what we will do, we'll use a vocabulary that is more complex than what it should be. And if we want even to get something from those interactions, we also want to appear confident. We want to make it look like we know what we are talking about.

Geoffrey: We want, it's all those look like and those takes that makes it really difficult to be clear. But speaking clearly, it's something that you know how to do. If you talk to children.

Geoffrey: Yeah. That's you people, even, even if with a big tech background, we deep into tech and into complex things, they know how to speak in a comprehensive way. Like they can learn about what they do.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Now, Jeff, like some people who might be listening or even watching us [00:08:00] now, they'll say, no, but this is, you know, on paper, it's easy.

Mehmet: It's easy to say like this. Um, you know, I'm, you know, people usually intake day and you started even about your journey. And even I shared this before, like, yeah, we are also like kind of these introverts, like, uh, you know, we are shy. We, we, we cannot express ourselves. So what are like some of the, um, let's call them actionable exercises, uh, that they can practice to, you know, increase their range of expression.

Mehmet: Um, especially when they're going to, because you said, you know, you do public speaking as well, and this is a big, big one actually. So what they can do, how they can practice.

Geoffrey: Yeah, usually when I, when I work with people to develop their public speaking skills, we start with exercises so that they can speak naturally.

Geoffrey: So they, they know how it is to speak with enthusiasm and to not try to look like something. And there are small exercise [00:09:00] that you can do if you want to develop those skills. It's very easy to do them. You can record yourself with a phone. And actually that's a very good exercise. Because usually when you talk to in a video, if after you finished talking and you looked, you look at the video and you find it's okay, then you're probably speaking naturally.

Geoffrey: So there is, you have a very fast feedback. If what you're doing is actually natural or not, and the best exercise to find this way of speaking naturally, it's you start a record and then you imagine you talk to your best friend. Or something that, or someone that you are a hundred percent comfortable with.

Geoffrey: And then you just like wish a happy birthday or something, just, just something nice, or you speak about something amazing that happened to you. Or you can even imagine a story. And this is a way to find how you speak naturally and then [00:10:00] to stretch to stretch because most of the time when you are on stage, you are, if you're not completely open, it's because you're not comfortable because you never did it before.

Geoffrey: And here's the exercises that you can do to stretch those abilities is to put yourself into situation when you talk in front of a group and to do things. That are a little bit crazy. Like you can scream, not at work. I mean, you, you can choose the environment when you do it. And the beautiful thing is that to learn those public speaking skills, the audience itself doesn't matter much.

Geoffrey: Like you could, you could learn in a setting like. improvisation theater, where you can be as crazy as you want, where you can scream as loud as you can. And then [00:11:00] when you will talk in front of business potential partners, you will benefit for this training. And by stretching your capabilities, like every time you do something unusual screaming or showing extreme joy, I like to do this emotional, um, emotional exercises because it's what stretches a lot.

Geoffrey: Then when you are in a situation of public speaking, you're speaking in front of the audience, it can be a high stakes situation. And suddenly you're a lot more comfortable and natural because you know that at any moment, You can scream or you can do scenes completely crazy. And the fact that you're doing at a much lower than your real capability, like you're expressing yourself at a, you know, if you, if you can do more, you can always do less.

Geoffrey: And most people who are [00:12:00] uncomfortable, they are because what they're, they cannot do more. So they're already at their limit of being natural when they speak in front of an audience. But if you know, you can go much higher than being natural. Extremely easy.

Mehmet: Wow. Like, this is so provoking, I would say, because, uh, so you put yourself When you are practicing, of course, imagining you are in a very, you do, as you said, like the craziest thing.

Mehmet: And then when the actual thing comes in, so, you know, like, okay, I did this before, so this will be easy, but from your experience, Jeff, like for a newbie, let's say someone who just gonna start to do these, uh, maybe presentation, public speaking, how long on average it would take them to reach, You know, an acceptable, let's call it a level [00:13:00]

Geoffrey: with the people I'm coaching.

Geoffrey: I do that in three months. So in three months they get to an acceptable level. It's actually quite fast. If you practice regularly, then of course, it depends how many speaking possibilities that you, you, you can have in a week, for example, or like, I, I have a, a client of mine, she's having two a day. So she progressed extremely fast, but of course you don't need to do two a day.

Geoffrey: You can do once or twice a week. It's already good. Okay. And the secret is really to stretch every time you speak. At the beginning, you might feel not comfortable. And if you're not comfortable, it's just a matter of doing it. You just do. Because if it's uncomfortable, don't try to challenge yourself doing crazy things, screaming.

Geoffrey: It's already hard as it is. Just do it. But after you do it a few times, and you become more comfortable on stage, that's what I call the biggest trap of public speaking. Many people, they do that once they start to get [00:14:00] comfortable, they stay at the same level and it's what I like to call the valley of boringness because that's where you find people who are, they're okay when they speak, but they're a bit boring, they're average and they don't stand out and usually the people in the audience are not very convinced.

Geoffrey: And when you are in this stage of being slightly more confident on stage, it's not a big step to put yourself on stage and to speak up. Then you need yourself to spice things up by adding a bit, a little bit of difficulty, a little bit of challenge. A good rule of thumb is you need to be, to feel a little bit of fear before you speak.

Geoffrey: Otherwise, You're not progressing. It's the same. And the more you do this, like it's something that you just, you repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, and then you bet you, you get better. But it's really like then the most speaking opportunities that you have and [00:15:00] the more you stretch a little bit all the time, the faster you progress.

Mehmet: Right. So Jeff, let me ask you this. Now we're talking about maybe public speaking, but I think. You know, the techniques that you're talking about goes beyond just public speaking. So, because, and actually it can be for both tech and non tech people, and I will tell you why. So, basically, we find sometimes ourselves in a situation where As a tech, uh, professional, maybe I have this great idea that I need to talk to my leadership about it.

Mehmet: Or maybe sometimes I'm applying for an interview or which is, you know, the use case that I'm interested more in it is when I have this You know, fantastic, you know, idea that I am developing now and I have to go, for example, presented in front off maybe [00:16:00] investors, maybe early adopters. So what is the play there, you know, for You know, the tech professionals to, to why it's crucial to develop, you know, these skills beyond just, you know, uh, all the use cases is that we just discussed.

Geoffrey: Yeah. The beauty about public speaking is that it really applies to all the situation where you talk could be a dinner, could be, could be a meeting, could be a networking event, could be a meeting with investors, could be a pitch. Everything is like, likewise, it even applies when you speak to one person.

Geoffrey: The thing is. This might be self provoking,

Geoffrey: but the thing is, people are all the same. Like we all share an emotional base, right? Even if we are, uh, highly analytical [00:17:00] and we all share an emotional base, and in fact physically or emotional, uh, that the emotion that happen in your brain are something that shortcut the intellectual, um, ability. So, so it's really, it's really like we are based on emotions.

Geoffrey: So it means that what works on your neighbors works on investors. If you can make anyone comfortable by speaking to them, you can do it with, uh, anyone, may they be a CEO of, uh, the biggest company in the world or your neighbor, it's the emotional level. It's the same. So, of course, what it takes to convince them intellectually might be, might be a little bit different, but, but this emotional base is something that you can use in all the situations.

Geoffrey: And once you know how to captivate an audience, because you talk naturally, you're [00:18:00] able to use these skills in every situation. And so you will have the base, you will have the attention of the people and they will feel good around you and you have your base and then you can apply it to any potential situation.

Mehmet: That's, that's really cool, Jeff. But now, again, I'm trying to also do this, uh, awakening more, a moment for the audience with you, Jeff. Now, part of, you know, In my opinion, being successful in doing whether it's a speech on a stage or whether it's a impressive presentation to whomever is the first impression, right?

Mehmet: So it's like these first few minutes. And I talked to a lot of people and you know, the theme that always comes in is you need to [00:19:00] start with something thought provoking, right? And sometimes this is where, you know, in addition to speak, In a very, I would say, comfortable way and like you are self confident, you need also to have the storytelling part of it.

Mehmet: Now what I heard from some people like, look, yeah, I can overcome maybe looking at people in their eyes. I can overcome, you know, maybe the fear of being on stage, but I can't, can I cannot come up with like this. You know, stories are these hooks that will get the audience with me. What techniques you can give us today, Jeff?

Mehmet: Yeah, that's

Geoffrey: a great question, Mehmet. First, a little warning. Many people make the mistake of trying to be effective before they're comfortable. So if you still have many fears, if you are not able yet to [00:20:00] just to speak naturally and to speak with enthusiasm and have fun when you do your speech, don't try to be effective yet.

Geoffrey: Focus on that first. Then once it starts to be more natural and you feel it when it becomes natural, then, then you can start to focus on the content and yes, starting with something self provoking, it's the, it's the best way to start the tip. I can give you usually when you start a speech, it's to put more energy at first than what you think.

Geoffrey: is reasonable or that you're used to it. So that's for the how, how you speak. When you start the advice I like to give speaking a way that is slightly above the bar of too much. It has to for you, for you to feel slightly too much. Because for the audience, it will [00:21:00] just be fine. We have a different interpretation of Caesar and it will put you in the right mood, in the right energy, it will give you more confidence to start.

Geoffrey: And then yes, something self provoking, but it's hard to give a rule about how to craft something self provoking because it's really depending on who you're talking to, what, what do they think? What do they believe? So here, creativity and tests. Like you test you, once you have something, you test it. And this can just be something to try on people that you know, that, uh, fits the people who are in the audience and see if they seem interested.

Mehmet: Very, you know, insightful. Now, coming from the point you finished from Jeff, as a, as a, someone who, who's doing this new, I mean, [00:22:00] public speaking and, you know, talking to the audience, whether it's small or large, are my guides or what, you know, signals I can take from the audience, because, you know, sometimes the audience, they will be just looking at you.

Mehmet: So how I can understand if actually I'm doing. The things in the right way or on the spot I can like sense something and probably change the way i'm talking or maybe change the tone i'm talking or maybe I don't know Because i'm with you like the content comes next the importance is the delivery, right?

Mehmet: So what are like some of these signals that I should be? You know, monitoring all the time and based on it. Okay, hold on. There's something wrong going on here. Let me try to fix it.

Geoffrey: Yeah. It's something that we, we, we feel it first. Of course you have to be a little bit comfortable to feel those things. You need to be able to be present and notice the audience.

Geoffrey: And [00:23:00] once you're there, it's the attention. The attention doesn't lie. You, you know, when they look at you, you know, when you like this impression of them looking at you and then just giving you their full attention, you, you cannot miss that. So if you don't have it. It means you probably need to change something in your approach.

Geoffrey: If you lose it, like you have the attention and then some you think that, Oh, people start to look around. They start to check their, their phone in their pocket. It means that you should probably try something else. And, uh, that's why it's so important to stretch, stretch your capabilities, being able to like, uh, Put more energy, uh, change the tone, change the topic, tell a joke, you know, all those different things to, to change the reason.

Geoffrey: And if you want to keep the attention all along, it's the reason is extremely important. It needs to completely change. It's like the videos [00:24:00] that we see on social media. You know, the plan change every two seconds because so that the people, they continue to look and look and look, this is for the attention.

Geoffrey: But of course you also want to be. Effective. You also want to later be sure that they get what you mean. And here it's the best way to do it is to ask at the end when, uh, people come talk to you or you can talk to them and you say, Hey, could you summarize, could you summarize what you, what you got from my intervention?

Geoffrey: And sometimes you will be surprised because they might like it, but not get the message.

Mehmet: Okay.

Geoffrey: So it's important to have this feedback and to make sure that what information that you convey is really what you want them to remember.

Mehmet: Mm hmm. Now, you mentioned, and I know that you touched base, but I want to come back to this one more time, Jeff, because I think it's [00:25:00] important.

Mehmet: Um, you know, beforehands, like we were chatting and of course we were preparing for this episode and, you know, you talk about something called inner game of public speaking, right? And the importance of mastering it. So, Why that is important and like, what does, what does it have to do with, uh, performance?

Geoffrey: Yeah. You know, this ability that we have to beat ourselves up, you probably have it too. Shows up in every aspect of our life is doubt is constant. I could be better. I could do better. And this is really a killer when it comes to public speaking. It's a killer before. And it's a killer after so rule of thumb for the before.

Geoffrey: So I like to, uh, to separate the inner things that happen in you before speaking and the [00:26:00] things that happen after because those two moments are critical. Just before you speak, you might have something building up inside you, especially if it's something that you're not very comfortable to do, or you don't have a lot of experience.

Geoffrey: Don't rehearse your speech at that time. Don't start to, um, to make stories in your head. Oh, what can I say? Just stand up and do it. Because if you start to, to, uh, every time to build things inside your head before speaking, it will be a nightmare for you. So you have to be extremely careful not to do that and to just concentrate on the moment.

Geoffrey: Like take deep breaths. If you have a big sensation in your body, just feel it like, okay, I feel this sensation fully. And then don't, don't, don't run your mind a hundred percent because it will not work. So that's for the before. Then the after is a critical even might even be more [00:27:00] critical than the before because many times what happens we do it We sit down and then it's hell At first we might be happy that we did.

Geoffrey: Ah, I did it Okay so we might even feel relieved if it's not something that we We like so much and then we start to sing about this little thing that we could have improved Oh, and I forget that and did they really understood and did they, did they, um, get what I meant? And then you remember that time when someone left the room and you start to think it's because of you.

Geoffrey: And then you think that, Oh, maybe public speaking is not for me. Maybe it's not just made for me. And then it goes. Goes on and on and on and then you feel like a complete failure and you feel that it was a disaster and you don't want to do it anymore. So it's really, it's really the mind that gets [00:28:00] crazy after you speak because it's in such a state of excitement that it just goes on and on and on.

Geoffrey: The thing is, nothing good ever happens from those moments. And so what I tell people to do every time they would come to me after having spoken, because usually they tell me, yeah, where are you happy? Oh yeah. But just this and that I said, no, no, no. You did it. You're satisfied. You did it. You're brave. You did it.

Geoffrey: You're progressing. Especially if you stretched a little bit, like I would like you to, every time you speak to feel a little bit of fear. If you don't feel any fear, it means you're not progressing. And then since you felt the fear, then what happens when you sit down? Now instead of reviewing what you just did, [00:29:00] be brave.

Geoffrey: You feel that you are brave, you did something that you fear, you're brave, right? And you are satisfied. That's the rule. You did it. You did something fearful. You are satisfied. End of the story. And then be extremely careful because the mind can go crazy, uh, without any notice. So. Concentrate on really you did it.

Geoffrey: You're satisfied. And if it's really running so fast, put all your focus on the outside. Like, Oh, what's happening right now? Who's in the scene? Who's talking, what are they saying? Like really focus on the outside. That's for the after. Because you need to be satisfied because speaking should be enjoyable.

Geoffrey: And the fact that you are satisfied after is what acts as a positive reinforcement for you. And that makes you start to like the process and the time you will love it. Now you will have an opportunity to [00:30:00] speak. Woohoo. I know. I love it. It's something that I love. I will, it will be a little bit fearful.

Geoffrey: Then I will stretch something. I will do something new. And then I will sit down and I will feel satisfied no matter what.

Mehmet: Nice. So it's like overcoming what's known as the imposter syndrome, Jeff, right? So, because some people, including myself back in the days, Exactly what you just described. Oh, I should have mentioned this.

Mehmet: Like, even if it's a presentation, not necessarily like a big audience. Oh, I should have put my hands down. I should have did this. I should, you know, like, and then with time and you know, I'm just telling this to, to, to, uh, I would say, Verify what you just mentioned. The biggest example I give to myself is this podcast itself because I was thinking too much.

Mehmet: Oh, now a lot of people might listen to this. And [00:31:00] if my voice cracks here, if I misspell something, I would be in big shame. Oh no. And then you, of course, like one day I sit down and said, you know what? I don't care. I got to record myself and I got to publish it as is. And then maybe after one or two days, I got to go and listen back, you know, how it is.

Mehmet: This is how I started. And of course I had to listen to myself back in case like there's a glitch or something, you know, of course, exactly what you mentioned, Jeff, like I can relate too much what you just said regarding, you know, and this is for the podcast. And of course, like in previous lives, when I was the guy sitting in a cubicle.

Mehmet: Uh, barely, you know, speak to large audience and all of a sudden I found myself speaking to I think 200 people in a big conference. And it was my first experience. And you know, like the way I did it. Okay. I know I am good. I gonna, I know the topic I'm talking about. And I'm just going to do it. [00:32:00] And if this doesn't, um, succeed, that's fine.

Mehmet: Like I would learn from it. And actually the audience, like they like it. And you know, exactly what you mentioned, I want to do it more. So, Hey, can you send me to this conference? I would love to speak. So a hundred percent on this Jeff. Now, one thing I know you talk about, which is charisma also as well.

Mehmet: Right. So, and let's be honest, like. Sometimes, of course, even if the speaker, you know, makes good eye contact, he does, or she does all the step by step. Some people would come and say, but you know, like that other guy, like, was like more charismatic, like we felt something. So is, what's your take on this?

Mehmet: Honestly, I have, you know, I can't decide, you know, if this is something really I care about when I am the audience, I'm part of the audience. When I am on the stage, I'm Actually, I don't even think about how they will perceive me. I mean, from charismatic perspective, [00:33:00] because what I'm trying to do there is to convey a message in a way that everyone can understand.

Mehmet: So what you can tell us about the charisma thing.

Geoffrey: I think if you're on stage and you think I want to be perceived charismatically. It's done. It's done because then, then, uh, of course, what, what you will get will be completely opposite to charisma. Charisma is hard to be. There is a subjectivity in charisma, but what I think is that there is something that is deeply uncharismatic.

Geoffrey: When people restrain themselves, when they inhibit themselves, and this is something that we can feel and the way I like, I like to give this image is imagine you're on a dance floor and you know, you always have those people who dance, but they don't feel at ease and just looking at them, [00:34:00] uh, don't feel really good.

Geoffrey: And then there are those people, they dance like superstars, they, uh, go in all the directions, they move their hands, they move their feet. And this is the image that I like to use. When you're on stage, don't do things halfly. How many times do you hear a speaker? They ask a question to the audience, like, who are you today?

Geoffrey: Yeah. No answer. And then they start to talk very fast, you know, to, um. Close that gap. To cover the, the fact that they think they made a mistake. Right. Or you tell a joke. And when you see they don't instantly

Geoffrey: do something about it. They don't instantly laugh or they, you don't see any reaction. They start to talk and talk and talk. [00:35:00] So here's the advice is. If you want to scream, scream completely, don't do, ah, just go, ah, if you want to do, I don't know, you want to move on scene, just move completely. If you ask a question, ask your question.

Geoffrey: And wait and don't, don't, don't he be like, you start something and then you retract, you know, like when you dance, if you throw your arms in your, in a direction, just, just leave it, uh, going completely to the, to the end of the movement. So this is to avoid things that appears and charismatic and charismatic.

Geoffrey: To not restrain your move. Does it make you charismatic? I [00:36:00] cannot tell for sure, but I think there is a lot, a lot.

Mehmet: I can't really, I can't relate to some of these things now. This is by training, I believe this is, it's a mix of a skill and self training, in my opinion, to have the fast reflex, right? So, for me, like, if I feel, let's say I ask a question and no one answer it, so the way I do is I don't panic, first of all.

Mehmet: The second thing I do, I try to throw a joke in this case. Oh, uh, so no one want to answer this. So, uh, and I look to my watch and, you know, I try to make, and it worked majority of the time. So if I try to not mock myself, of course, but I try to throw a joke or make it like something funny. So this is where, and I think this is what you were mentioning at the beginning, Jeff, about the [00:37:00] emotion.

Mehmet: And the human, all of us, we have emotions, right? So, um, but you know, you're, let me ask you, Jeff, how easy is your task, you know, because you might have people who comes and they think they know it all. And you know, you need to, to change the way they think, tell me about this, like how easy it's like to change the mindset of someone, because sometime, and you mentioned about the blockage that we have, And, you know, you, you mentioned, you thought like we can, I cannot do it.

Mehmet: I wasn't having the same thing, but is it easy really for all people? Like how, how do you manage people who might have like a strong blockage? I would say to slowly, slowly accept that. No, there's a different way of doing things.

Geoffrey: Yeah, so of course, if they don't want it, it's very hard to do. [00:38:00] I think the first thing is to just talk about what, what this belief, what this block is, what effect it has. That is not necessarily true if you analyze it rationally, it can be true, can be not true depending on how you choose to interpret it.

Geoffrey: So first to, to, to understand on an intellectual level that it's, you could believe the opposite things and find a solution. Reasons for it to be true. That's usually the case for mindset and blocks. But then of course there is the emotional, the emotional level. And I think for the emotional part of it, making the person feeling safe, what helps a lot in my situation is I used to have all those blocks, like, I used to suffer so much.

Geoffrey: That's why I became a public [00:39:00] speaking coach and that's what drove me to do all those crazy, crazy things and to face all the fears. It, it was because for me, the blocks were so intense that it made my life impossible. So that, that's what drove me. And so usually it's something I can relate and then I can say how, yeah, um, acknowledge.

Geoffrey: What it is, how you feel with those blocks and then tell them how you break them, why you might have them, what you have on the other side. And of course the it's, it's an emotional work and the, how do you do emotional work is by putting yourself deliberately. in those situations that are not comfortable.

Geoffrey: And there are ways to do that in a semi safe environment. Like for example, Toastmasters, you find clubs all around the world in [00:40:00] all the big cities. You can throw yourself. It's extremely friendly. Like it's an environment where you can, you can fail. You can appear stupid. You can, you can try things. You, you, you can find those environments to put yourself in those difficult situations.

Geoffrey: I not suggest to do that in your professional life when you begin, like for, it's like networking, you know, if you want to be a good networker, don't start by going to networking events where you have a potential interest. Start with networking event, completely unrelated to your professional area. Okay.

Geoffrey: And like, and just talk about things that you like and your passion and your hobbies. And once you can do that, then go to professional event and [00:41:00] try to speak in the same way, but about professional matter. So same in public speaking, start to speak in situation when there is no stake to be like you would like to be in situation with bigger stakes.

Geoffrey: And when you can do it, when there is no stake, you know, the habit, you know, you have the Because it's just your body moving. Your body doesn't care about who's around. It doesn't change anything to the situation. It's all in the head, but knowing that your body can do it, then you can translate it into those high stakes situations.

Mehmet: It's very powerful strategy, I would say, you know, um, it should, you know, this is, this is really good because I think it can be applied not only for the public speaking. I mean, this technique can be applied for again, overcoming any blockage that we have and public speaking and, [00:42:00] you know, being able to, to, to be like, uh, uh, fluent when, when communicating with people, uh, is, is crucial because.

Mehmet: And I like this concept, uh, Jeff, you go to something that's related to not related first. I mean, for let's you give the networking event, which is perfect example because some people they say, Hey, I'm an introvert. Yeah, so you can go start to talk to people not necessarily about what you are trying to do and then get this really powerful, really, really powerful.

Mehmet: Um, Jeff, like You mentioned about these clubs and so on. So as we are coming to an end, like what other, let's say resources, what other, um, you know, maybe books, I don't know. And of course, like where people can get hold of you, Jeff. So, so they can learn more and maybe they can get in touch with you.

Geoffrey: Yeah.

Geoffrey: So as for the books, the first thing I recommend is that if you still feel very uncomfortable speaking, [00:43:00] don't read books about what to say, what to do, because it might just confuse you. At the beginning, just throw yourself in those situations. Once you are more comfortable, yeah, you can read books and then it will be amazing because you can really apply what are in the book in the completely fully.

Geoffrey: People can find me on LinkedIn. I post tips about public speaking for CEOs and CTOs almost daily. And may I share a gift, Mehmet, with our listeners? Yeah, sure. So you can go on my website, GeoffreyHuck. com slash podcast. And you will be able to download a PDF with the first steps to apply all that we talked about in this interview and start your journey in public speaking.

Mehmet: Well, thank you very much, Jeff. Like this is really Um, very generous from you and thank you for sharing this with, uh, with, uh, [00:44:00] my audience. I really appreciate it. And, uh, you know, I will make sure that I will put the link to the website and the link for getting the gift also, and your LinkedIn profile also as well.

Mehmet: So guys, if you want to get in touch with Jeff, you know where you can find him and grab your gift also as well. Um, Jeff, again, as I, you know, say every time the reason I love, uh, doing this podcast because I find incredible people who are trying to help a lot of other incredible people like yourself. Uh, so thank you for being part of this journey and being, uh, my guest here today.

Mehmet: I know like You know, this is a precious time from from yours to to to the community So again, thank you for that. And this is how I usually end my episode This is for the audience guys If you just discovered this podcast by like, you know, you passed by and you you found it Thank you for passing by if you like it Please subscribe give up a thumb up also and share it with your friends and colleagues because [00:45:00] we're trying to do kind of a Give back to the community You sharing knowledge and sharing, you know, all the trends and, you know, techniques related to everything related to tech entrepreneurship and startups.

Mehmet: And if you are one of the people who keep following us and giving us our, uh, their comments and suggestions, thank you for doing so. Keep them coming. And as I mentioned, always stay tuned. We're going to meet again very soon in a new episode. Thank you. Bye bye.

Geoffrey: Thank you.