#387 Igniting Entrepreneurial Passion: Lessons from Mohammad Bahareth on Resilience and Innovation

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Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet. Today I'm very pleased joining me from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Mohammad Bahareth. Mohammad, thank you very much for being with me here today. It's an honor and pleasure to have you. Uh, so the first thing I like to do it, [00:01:00] so you are like very well known here in in the region in Saudi Arabia and across all the Gulf countries and the MENA region, but just for the audience, tell us a little bit more about yourself, your journey, and then we can take it up from there.

Mohamed: Okay, Mohammed, the pleasure is mine for being on your show. And, uh, I would like to, uh, introduce myself as a dyslexic person and also a person who has ADHD. Uh, overcoming those challenges has been very difficult and finding my place in life was a journey that I am very proud of. Uh, the first, uh, experience that I had in life.

Mohamed: Was working in a hotel, uh, with my dad. And, uh, it was a very joyful experience. Yeah. And I learned a lot from working, uh, in my early days. Then I moved on to many ventures, to, uh, many workplaces. And I have [00:02:00] learned from each, um, from each place because I keep jumping from category to category, you know, from hospitality to PR and then ending up, uh, in entrepreneurship.

Mohamed: So I learned a lot across the years and, um, I call myself. Uh, you know, a person who likes to learn, you know, the fire inside each of us for, uh, education, for learning, for curiosity never ends. So this is the passion that I would like to give all of your viewers and everybody who deals with me and works with me.

Mohamed: Uh, obviously some people know me and some people don't. So I would like to introduce myself as a business consultant. And, uh, last year I won the business consultant of the year award, and I am very happy, uh, that they won it. And there are a lot of, uh, my peers also, uh, [00:03:00] that, uh, won this award in the last few years, and I didn't expect winning it.

Mohamed: So I'm very happy about that. And I appreciate, uh, the people who nominated me and who voted for me for this award. And I'm very delighted to be here with you today.

Mehmet: The pleasure is mine, Mohammed, and, uh, congratulations on, on, uh, on that award. Um, you know, it's something which I started to see as, uh, maybe, I like, I like to spot patterns, let me call it this way.

Mehmet: Um, so you mentioned about, uh, Uh, dyslexia and then the things, but I had a lot of guests, you know, but all of them, they are like yourself, you know, who have this fire in them, you know, eager to, to, to learn. And, you know, the nice thing is that they also like yourself, Muhammad, they like to pass this to the next generation.

Mehmet: Uh, and you know, [00:04:00] maybe people, they don't know. The, uh, former CEO of Cisco, he, he had, uh, also like he had dyslexia and he is, um, a known, uh, like successful CEO for one of the major companies. Now you said to Mohammed, you jumped from one thing to another, and you know, this is the, I think sometimes the path for every entrepreneur, right?

Mehmet: Because they need to find, you know, their true passion and you can't. I am big believer in the passion and purpose and you know what, what you want to achieve. So for you, like when you started to spot, you know, like, okay, I want to settle on this path of being in, in entrepreneurship, right. And, and being, you know, a business consultant and helping other people, what was the motive?

Mehmet: What was, you know, like the thing that you said, Yes, this is the, you know, this is exactly the thing that I want to pursue and, you know, I want to move forward with it to, to, uh, you know, to, to choose, uh, this, this path. Can, can you [00:05:00] share this with, with us, please?

Mohamed: It's, it's actually, the answer is very funny.

Mohamed: Okay. Uh, I was trying to find my career path when I was young, trying to explore. opportunities. Okay. And, uh, some of the people at human resources don't like people who jumped from one job to another from, you know, one field to another. But in fact, uh, when when I look for Entrepreneurs, I look for these qualities for, for the curiosity to find out what is there.

Mohamed: So when I finally found out what I was good at, I was good at public, public relations. Um, so when I started working in public relations, I discovered that I have a knack for it and it's, it's very natural for me. And the effort is not as much as, uh, working in any other field. So when I started, I found out that I was.

Mohamed: not just doing PR. I [00:06:00] was helping people and enabling them with information, with knowledge, starting from technology and maintenance. You know, I'm a huge tech geek. I'm the first guy in Saudi Arabia who got the Google glasses, by the way, and I also tried to make a couple up for it. And, um, You know, I have the Apple vision pro, everything that is new in technology.

Mohamed: I have it. So people are always asking me questions. Muhammad, how did you do this? Muhammad, how did you do that? Muhammad, I would like to open a company. Muhammad, I would like to start this. And I would like you to review, uh, the structure of my company. Uh, how about you take a look at this? So I started as questions from people in my field of PR.

Mohamed: And then I started to see what should I do? To make this better. Can I do it? To help entrepreneurs, uh, uh, the responsibility is great. You know, I have to study for it. I have to take courses. I have to know what is [00:07:00] special about me to give them. Okay. My dyslexic way of thinking is something, uh, adding to the equation and adding to the value, but the fundamentals, uh, for me, it was very difficult and we started, you know, back at 2006 when, when, uh, How would you say when, when it was not the market was not ready for startups, but, uh, the most important thing is you give them the fundamentals such as the business model.

Mohamed: Uh, the, uh, people, uh, were, were focused on other, uh, ways of, um, calculating revenue that, that are very, um, how would you say, cause losses for a company? So when I started to do this, There was no map. There was no structure. There was nothing. I started to do it, you know, just from my heart. And when I did it, I discovered that this is my passion.

Mohamed: Uh, [00:08:00] as a business consultant, I can give them my perspective. I can give them the accumulated, uh, experience that I have in the one hour or two hours that they stay with me. I can guide them to avoid the mistakes that most of the people before them did. And also I went through the same mistakes as before, uh, how to get updated in the regulations.

Mohamed: Uh, there are fields that needs to have, uh, for example, before we didn't have, uh, uh, any regulations for, uh, you know, uh, uh, like this, uh, Uber and Kareem, the, um, Call to order taxis and a call to order cars and then regulations came and then how would you react? Or how would you act if there is regulations?

Mohamed: And if you are working be and the regulations come there are fines. There are violations. There are stuff [00:09:00] on the way How can you avoid them? Preemptively, so these are ideas that they couldn't do Alone and couldn't deal with alone. So I teamed up with a few lawyers and a few legal experts so we can help the businesses grow and Avoid violations and before the regulations come, they can, um, talk with the regulators and tell them what they need and what can hinder them and what can disrupt their work and the workflow just flowed afterwards and You know, it became something that we do every day.

Mehmet: That's fantastic, Mohammed. And, you know, I'm sure, uh, I can imagine because you mentioned 2006 and, you know, at that time, like even the idea of starting up was like a dream, right? Like, uh, even, even with, we used just to see it in, uh, in, in, in books.

Mohamed: Yeah, you know, actually the first [00:10:00] accelerator that I recall in Saudi Arabia was ACMAC, the, uh, the Mecca accelerator from Umm al Qura University, uh, Mr.

Mohamed: Osama Natto was the head of the accelerator and he was like, uh, you know, the guiding father for me in the, in the field. He's, uh, he's the guy who, who really honed my skills and told me there are people who do this. You focus on this. There are people who do that. You focus here. And he was, you know, like a, uh, guiding father is the, how would you say my entrepreneurial father, as you say.

Mehmet: Oh, fantastic. You know, because, you know, to your point in 2012 or 2011, you know, I was telling someone, you know what, like, I think I can do a startup and, you know, I, I will, uh, You know do this and do this and I will have this and I will go After funds as you're telling me you're crazy like you think yourself living in the silicon valley or where I said Yeah, [00:11:00] but you know what like one day this region.

Mehmet: I mean the whole region saudi arabia uae qatar all these countries here in gcc They will become like this. They were laughing at me, but i'm thanks god. I see this in my eyes today So I can't be more happy to be honest with you now I know muhammad like you have passion

Mohamed: I want to tell you something when I used to talk to businessmen, business moguls and media moguls, I tell them I'm waiting to see the next unicorn and then They were laughing at me.

Mohamed: They think I was actually talking about a real unicorn. The term was unknown. They thought I was talking about a fantasy book or something.

Mehmet: Yeah, because the first time, honestly, I, I, uh, I heard the term like I said, what's your, what's a unicorn? And I figured out, yeah, like a company that become, uh, you know, 1 billion company. Now, Muhammad, I know [00:12:00] also, you know, part of, uh, what you have Done over the years, right? So, so you came up, um, because you kept mentioning the business model, right?

Mehmet: So I know that you have developed a method and you called behalf method and the goal model Canva. I'm, I'm very fan, you know, of anything that we can structure it for, I would say young entrepreneurs or new entrepreneurs so they can understand the thing. Because honestly speaking, maybe you will agree or disagree.

Mehmet: I don't know. But the way, Sometimes still we teach people in, in schools and colleges. Uh, it's not up to date and we teach them like all concepts. And when they go out to live, they, they get struck with, with many obstacles and they could not, uh, understand how to overcome this. So tell me a little bit more about, you know, these, uh, uh, methods and, and the Canva that you have developed.

Mohamed: See, uh, the, the, the goal model canvas is inspired by the business model [00:13:00] canvas. Uh, it's a way to structure your goal for, uh, for the whole year, for each month of the year and for every week of the year. So you have one main goal that you want to achieve this week, and you have four other goals that are sub goals that are goals you want to achieve, but they're not as important as the first goal.

Mohamed: And then you structure them with your goals. the business flow or your workflow or your life flow. Okay. So what you have structured, for example, uh, this week, I want to have a certificate. I want to learn this new skill. Um, I want to learn this new language. So you start putting the goals and then by the end of the year, you will find out if you, if you have, Uh, the stamina enough and the persistence and the perseverance to go through it all, [00:14:00] you will find out if you made 60 percent of your goals, you will be surprised of what you could achieve.

Mohamed: So that's the basic method of the, uh, the goal model canvas is to help you understand the goal. what you can do. And also I'm gonna launch in Arabic soon enough, uh, like a notebook based on the goal model canvas. And later on, we'll launch it in English because, uh, the most important thing in life is achieving goals.

Mohamed: And when you achieve goals, you have a sense of accomplishment and you have a sense of being and giving back to the society and giving back and improving life. by your accomplishments. Some people have small accomplishments. Some people have big accomplishments. But remember, the people who made huge accomplishments started from the small ones.

Mohamed: It all starts from focusing on one thing. So [00:15:00] the goal model canvas helps people focus and structure their goals in the way they need it in the way that they want it. Some people, when they start to explore their goals, they discover that the goal itself that they wrote is not the thing that they originally, or they intended to want.

Mohamed: So they discover that it's something else. but it's underneath. So the goal model canvas helps people discover what they really want and focus on the real goal. For example, if a person wants to buy, uh, for example, a new Tesla car, okay, why does he want to buy it? What are the reasons? What are the color of the car?

Mohamed: How much is the car? When is he going to expect to buy it? And He can put all of the reasons. Okay. But the real goal is he would like [00:16:00] to have an electric car. Uh, he would like to have a status. He would like to have something else. The real goal is not the car. The real goal is the feeling behind the car.

Mohamed: So we explore the feeling and we explore why this feeling is there and how important it is. And we use it as a motivation for all the other goals that we have. So we explore the goals and then we explore the feelings behind the goals. And when you remind yourself of what you want to feel when you have this, you will have it even faster.

Mehmet: you know, like you mentioned a couple of things which are like, really, it's like I call them masterclass, right? Because, um, goals are very important and I have to, uh, to confess something that me, like one of the mistakes that I was doing when I was younger is that I was underestimating the, you know, the concept of goals, [00:17:00] right?

Mehmet: Most importantly, underestimating, you know, the power of. setting mini goals or even sometimes micro goals so I can track that I'm doing some success. Okay, but I was lucky enough like to cover this later and you know, like get in shape, let's say, which I think Mohammed is very beneficial not only in the In the business life also, like even on the personal side of life also as well.

Mehmet: Like we can track, let's say you set goal for losing weight. You set goal for, I don't know, read more books, uh, exercise more. So this

Mohamed: concept changed me. About reading books as a person who had, uh, almost two years just trying to read a book with dyslexia as a kid. Uh, reading books was very difficult for me.

Mohamed: And I'm really, you know, sometimes, uh, very disappointed with people who waste a lot of [00:18:00] time, uh, buying books and putting them in shelves and not reading them. You wouldn't know. How much benefit you get and people all always buy books from authors they like you will never learn when you buy Books from authors you like or books that you like or books that are popular.

Mohamed: You should buy Books that you really hate and dislike. So you have an understanding of people So you can communicate better, so you can, uh, reach your goals better. If you can understand a person or an idea that you hate, you can understand an idea that you love better, and much better. And reading is something really, uh, you know, uh, imagine somebody that, uh, lived a thousand years ago, and now you're reading about them six hundred years ago, two hundred years ago, and you're reading what they wrote.

Mohamed: Can you imagine that this is a book to the past? This is like time [00:19:00] traveling, that you can go and find out things and, and, uh, history and technology and everything you can ever dream of. It's in a book and it's, it's, it's, it's much better than the internet. People actually go and, you know, they go and browse and AI and stuff like that.

Mohamed: You know, books are the treasure are in front of people and they don't realize it.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, for me, of course, when I was kid, I was like a great book reader. I stopped, of course, after, uh, graduating from university because again, and I'm very transparent in this, I thought, Oh, I know it all now.

Mehmet: So I don't need to, to read more books. The thing, but exactly. I read it, um, from one of the authors, he's famous actually, uh, Robin Sharma. So in one of his books, he mentioned that when you read the book, it's like as if you are [00:20:00] having a conversation with the author. Exactly. And then I discovered the power, you know, Let me try to read the books in the field that, uh, are not in my area of expertise.

Mehmet: So I'm an engineer, right? So I graduated as an engineer. And you know, when I was younger, I was, no, I don't want to read finance. I don't want to read accounting. I don't want to read business. I don't want to read this and that. And then, you know, exactly the same thing. The moment I start to immerse myself in this, of course, it was very hard at the beginning, you know, you can imagine.

Mehmet: And then, After a while, I discovered, Oh, now I'm able to understand many things in a better way because I can correlate things and I can, you know, uh, understand things in a holistic approach rather than just, you know, looking from, from one corner. So exactly, Mohammed, on this one now is.

Mohamed: to work in hospitality.

Mohamed: One of the great things about working in hotels and [00:21:00] hospitality in the hospitality field, uh, that they take you on a tour in every In every, uh, start, uh, entry level job. Okay. From laundry to maintenance. So you have an experience of everything around the hotel. So when a guest have a question or have a problem, you know where to go.

Mohamed: So this gives, uh, any person who works in hospitality, they have a lot of skill sets from, from maintenance to, to, to, to laundry, to food and beverages, many things. And, you know, this has helped me a lot in my life to realize that there are many fields because, uh, younglings, okay, or the, the, the, the youth today, uh, don't know what are the options they have.

Mohamed: don't know what are the fields they have. There are many fields and every day we're hearing about the new field being created. Uh, you [00:22:00] know, until now, there is something on my bucket list that I couldn't do. Okay. Until today, because of dyslexia, my, uh, hand eye coordination is not as, uh, uh, how would you say, not as normal people do.

Mohamed: So until today I cannot ride a bicycle. I can ride a tricycle, but a bicycle, I cannot because of the hand eye coordination problem.

Mehmet: Yeah. Yeah. I can. And of course I can understand. And, uh, you know, funny enough, I just, I just fell on from my back yesterday. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mohammed. Now you mentioned about learning a lot and, you know, trying to, you know, using the internet and so on.

Mehmet: So. You know, the Internet actually created something which is, you know, I believe revolutionized the way, you know, we all get the information, but I want to have your point of view [00:23:00] on online learning on let's go. Let's call it now. Education tech, right, Mohammed. So first of all, like how you see this, this area evolving and, you know, what are like the things that, you know, should be done and should not be done, you know, In in that arena,

Mohamed: uh, e learning is something, uh, you know, very, very, very, very astound.

Mohamed: And e learning should have platforms that gather people with experiences. So they can relate their experiences to the next generation, especially people who are just retired. They have a sum of experiences and, uh, the youth can learn a lot. from them, from their experiences, from how they solve problems, what mistakes they did.

Mohamed: So we can have an accumulation if, imagine if the, if the youth today was enabled by the experiences of the retired people. Okay. [00:24:00] And they have the sum of their experience, the sum of their mistakes, the accumulation of, of this initiative itself on the future generations. We will have a super accumulation of learning from mistakes, a super accumulation of experience, and a super accumulation of success.

Mohamed: It is a formula for success. But the problem that we are facing today is that each country has its own regulations. For example, we in Saudi Arabia have a regulating body. Uh, for what they call courses, the right, uh, in Arabic, it's called the right. So if you want to give a Dora, you have to be a registered trainer.

Mohamed: From this governing body, the government body. And you have to have a registered because it's gonna have a difference when you give the person a certificate for attending, it's going to have a difference on their pay. So you have to do, you know, the structure and the systems and the benefits and you have to follow a certain structure.

Mohamed: But [00:25:00] if you go through to, uh, uh, seminars, as we call them in Arabic or, uh, workshops, as we call them in Arabic, if you do it online, there is no regulations up to now to register them anywhere up to now. And people can do them freely without needing to have any kind of permit or certificate here in Saudi Arabia up to now.

Mohamed: So this can help. In, uh, moving forward, help us moving forward to get the experiences. of people who retired get the experiences of, you know, a well skilled person to the next generation. We need to have a transfer of knowledge, a transfer of experience, and we need to hand the torch to the next generation.

Mohamed: Okay, every person has his own experience. For example, uh, there is a [00:26:00] guy who built an Iron Man suit. Okay, imagine if this guy who built an Iron Man suit gave, you know, a lecture or a workshop about electronics, about the devices he used, the technologies that he used. You will have 50 or 100 new inventors In the market you you you will add value to the market the more inventors you have you will add value to the market and you can have uh when you have more value you have more innovation and you have more um what's the word in english you would have more um you would invest you would invest in, in, in, in the time of the youth.

Mohamed: So instead of the youth going around and reading books and going around and asking people and researching, you will give them what they need and you will save them years. [00:27:00] of searching and experiences and, you know, uh, uh, finding out what is right and wrong, uh, in, in this field, how to do it. What is the regulations?

Mohamed: For example, a guy, one guy has, uh, an intellectual property certificate. What can he do with it? This guy, I'm going to give you an example without saying names. This guy, went to a company and told them I want to license this. So, he wanted to license it, uh, in general. I told him, no, no, no, no, wait. License it only for, uh, commercial, uh, airplanes only.

Mohamed: And, and license it to another company for passenger airplanes. License to another company for space, for rockets, for, uh, uh, you can license it for anything. Don't, uh, uh, give them, give it away in an instant, you know? And then when, once he [00:28:00] told them that they know that he was a professional, they gave him five times the initial offer.

Mohamed: Five times, five, five times. So if you just know how, how to communicate, if you just know a little bit about the Uh, the experience itself. You can get a lot of leverage. You know, that if, if, if, if example, he's getting like 10 million and now he's getting 50, it will make a huge difference in his life. It will make a huge difference in his output, in his giving, in his achievements.

Mohamed: as an inventor, as a intellectual property holder.

Mehmet: Absolutely. We are seeing, Mohammad, we are seeing a lot of initiatives, startups in the education specifically.

Mehmet: I have a theory. Okay. I'm, I'm seeing like nice things, but I'm not seeing enough, um, innovation in that area, [00:29:00] you know, taking, I'm, I'm big fan, by the way, of, of, uh, you know, taking a business model that work somewhere else and bringing, for example, to, to our region, to Saudi Arabia or to the UAE or, you know, Egypt, I'm big, big fan because Kareem is a success story.

Mehmet: You mentioned Kareem and Uber, right? So it's a success story. What I feel and here, maybe you can enlighten us with all these technology adoption that we have done and you're this, by the way, what you just described, Mohammed is a real pain and problem is about like learning and finding the information.

Mehmet: Which we wanted in a proper format. Why, why we are not getting, you know, this next generation of education technology, I would say in our region, in your, in your experience, is it because the founders are going the easy route or is it because they are not having the proper support maybe from, uh, investors and, uh, you know, government bodies.

Mohamed: There are a few problems. Okay. [00:30:00] Uh, the first problem I would like to address is the copy paste syndrome that we have. Uh, we, we take, uh, we take something that works and we say, okay, let's do it in Arabic. Copy paste, make an Arabic name. That is the biggest problem that we have. Okay? You can change it a bit here and there, you can explore.

Mohamed: You see, people underestimate the power of questionnaires. Okay? If you get ten teachers and ask them questions, if you get ten students and ask them questions, you will find out what they really want. Okay. And then you can build off of that and use the business model that works as, as a, as a base, and then work out from there.

Mohamed: You have to have something unique. Okay. You cannot just say, oh, okay. I'll just do, uh, a Kickstarter for school projects. Okay. I'll just do a copy of, uh, uh, what's the name of that site, you know, uh,

Mehmet: m for

Mohamed: [00:31:00] education courses and LinkedIn.

Mehmet: Coursera.

Mohamed: Yeah, Coursera. Just do a copy of them. Okay. They have the screen on the left.

Mohamed: Let's do it on the right. Come on, man. What kind of innovation is this? And the other problem that we're having is investors do not have the knowledge base, uh, to know what is happening in the tech background. For example, when, when, uh, investors come to me and ask me about, I said, look, man, this, this is, this is, this is a cheap way of doing this.

Mohamed: Okay. Why are you using all of this open source? You make your own code, if the, for example, if you're using this open source code and they made an update, you're screwed. You have to pay like 70, 000 or 15, 000 to fix this problem for an update. Your app will not work, your service will stop. Come on! Okay, open source is good, but when people rely on it too much, you saw what happened with Microsoft.[00:32:00]

Mohamed: You saw what happened with Microsoft? Airplane stopped. Okay, do your own thing do your backup and and have your own data have your own servers Okay, have a backup locally have redundancy plans. Okay investors. They sometimes they just want the cheapest options Okay, we want an MVP. Yalla. Let's do it. Okay An MVP is good.

Mohamed: Okay? But an an MVP should, an MVP has a expired date. You should throw it all out, and when you make the product, you make it in the right way. An MVP is just, you know, a dummy. Okay? When Ironman, okay, made his suit in, in, in the area that he was okay in his first suit. He didn't stay with it. It was just a proof, a proof of concept.

Mohamed: And then he made the real suit that he wants. And he threw the old one away. He kept it as a historical, uh, in like his own home museum or something. So [00:33:00] the basic thing is MVPs. You don't put an MVP for public. Nobody puts an MVP for public. You put an MVP to prove that this idea has a merit. This idea can be invested in, and this idea can be used.

Mohamed: Okay. I have many people, you know, I will give you an example. Three good founders. They are very good founders, but they have this is the third problem. Bad chemistry with the founders and also not researching the market enough. Okay, three founders. They don't have good chemistry with each other. Everybody wants to have control.

Mohamed: Okay, there is this, by the way, there is a company called CRG leader in Canada. They have, you know, like personality test. You can test your founders and you can know What's this founder personality? How do you can interact and work with him? It would make the work flow easier knowing the responsibilities.

Mohamed: The founders don't have. [00:34:00] Uh, like an ethics or business model for them how to communicate with each other. What are the responsibilities? Everybody thinks they're owner of the company. They have the final say so the egos kicks in. So this is the problem because startups fail because the founders don't have chemistry.

Mohamed: Okay, the third problem is that these three, these three founders made And you know, an app that is so crazy from the first day I saw it, I know it would be a unicorn, but it has to be in the right environment. Okay. This app takes, uh, it's B2B and it's also has a B2C. It's two apps in one. Okay. With one permit.

Mohamed: So it saves a lot of money. Uh, it's, it's two apps. It's save a lot of operational costs. If you want to have a truck move your home, all of the companies are registered. Okay, all of the companies are registered and you can click. Okay. I [00:35:00] want somebody to move my stuff from my home I want somebody to move stuff from this company to this company to the new branch They name it, they number it, they label it, everything.

Mohamed: All of the companies are there But it's a difficult way to find them and there is no structured Marketplace that they are all in. They made the best marketplace And they made everything and they're, they're all coming from different background of the logistical, uh, uh, field. And after they all, they did all of that, they had another idea, how we can do it for consumers.

Mohamed: And it was a brilliant idea, but they were just branching out what they can do without starting. And when they did it, you see, if you're, for example, at extra or in Emirates, you have this, uh, jumbo, I think they call it jumbo or something like that. The electronic store.

Mehmet: Yes. Yeah. Jumbo. Yeah.

Mohamed: Yeah. Uh, we have a Saudi Arabia like extra So if you if you bought a TV and you want somebody and you bought stuff you want somebody to take it to your home

Mehmet: Right

Mohamed: now [00:36:00] they have companies to take it to your home right now They're ready and to install and to do one with the service.

Mohamed: And they have also insurance for insurance for moving the product to your home. It's insured. They have all of this ready. Okay. But you know what? Their biggest problems is they didn't know who their initial client is. Their initial client are the company who does the service. What's in it for them?

Mohamed: They're already having business. What's in it for them? What is the benefit for the company registering in your app? They forgot to give value. To their vendors. This is the problem. They thought, okay, let's put them together and make people come. Okay. People came, the vendors are not there. They're not using the app.

Mohamed: They're not opening it. They're, you know, they have operational problems because the vendors don't see the value. So I told them instead of getting a hundred vendors to sign a contract with you, start just with one. Okay. Start with one and, [00:37:00] and make everybody want to come to you instead of you. Okay. Just sign contracts and.

Mohamed: It's it's incomparable,

Mehmet: you know, like eye opening, right? Um, but you just mentioned also one thing about, you know, the copy paste. I like to put my two cents. If you allow Mohammed, I always tell people, you know, because I meet a lot of people. They come with ideas and so on. I asked them, what is your competitive advantage?

Mehmet: You know, and I feel people get lost in this question. They said, yeah, we can do for example, this faster. I tell them, no, no, no. I'm not asking you how you compare to the competition today. I ask you how long the competition needs to put work and effort till they can produce the same thing that you have today.

Mohamed: I don't look at it that way. Okay. If you see anywhere in the world, okay. You see a barber, you see 10 barbers next to him. You see a tailor, you see 10 tailors next to him. [00:38:00] You see a car repair shop. You see 10 car repair shops next to him. Okay. You see, it's about a place of gathering. Your competitor is your biggest, They follow everything you do.

Mohamed: And if you do something that works, when you see them copying you, you know, that it works, put more money in it, put more effort in it. Okay. Your competitor, if you don't have a competitor, you will not succeed. If I'm running alone. Okay. I'm exercising alone and running alone. It will not be fun if I'm having somebody competing with me.

Mohamed: Today he won. Tomorrow I'm going to do more effort to win. Okay? We didn't have personal computers reaching everybody in the world because until Apple and Microsoft came head to head and IBM came head to head, you know, the hardware guys, the software guys came head to head with each other. Okay. Uh, Apple and Samsung with, with their mobile phones, you know, [00:39:00] uh, Google and Apple, everybody's competing in some area without them competing.

Mohamed: Apple wouldn't have reached what they reached today. Okay. Well, Google, uh, wouldn't have reached what it reached with Android, Samsung, everybody. They wouldn't have reached competition is good. Competition is, is, is, Excellent for growth, but people, uh, when they look at the competition as the enemy and we have to crush them, they're crushing their own selves.

Mohamed: In fact, I would tell you something really funny. Yeah. Nobody would believe that two of the biggest stores in Saudi Arabia, online stores in Saudi Arabia. Okay. Two of the biggest online stores of Saudi Arabia, they decided to help each other with cyber security. They decided to help each other with, they said, okay, We will sign non competition in these areas.

Mohamed: Okay. You are for accessories for phones. We will give you the advantage. Okay. You gave us the accessories for, uh, computers and [00:40:00] laptops and stuff like that. You don't make advertisement for two years and this, and you guys don't make a time. And then they combine their efforts secretly to make their platforms better to learn from their experience.

Mohamed: Their staff are learning from each other for, uh, in, in, in, uh, in logistics and stuff like that. It is very nice to see it. I hope one day that they are gonna share their, uh, uh, collaboration publicly. But, uh, for now I can't talk about who they are because of confidentiality and non disclosure agreements, but it's really happy when you see competitors and big competitors working together.

Mohamed: Okay. Uh, when you saw McDonald's and Burger King helping each other in, in, in some countries, you know. They couldn't pay in 2020, back in 2020, when they couldn't pay their employees. So they put the sign, go to Burger King or go to McDonald's, something like go to Burger King. Uh, because, uh, they need it [00:41:00] because people are losing their jobs.

Mohamed: You see, that's, that's, that's make you, makes you really happy when you see like that. You know, when you go to the old souk here in Jeddah, And you go, you enter in the morning and you think you're the first guy who just walked in. He said, no, I already sold my, my neighbor did not sell. Go to him. He didn't, he did not make his first sale today.

Mohamed: Go to him. That is, that is the true essence of, of, of, of market. You believe that there are abundance. There is, there is a huge abundance, but you have to look at it and change your perspective. The market, you can have everything you want. Okay.

Mehmet: But.

Mohamed: If you wish for your competitors. Uh, to prosper, you will prosper.

Mohamed: It's just like a mirror.

Mehmet: Absolutely. 100%. Uh, Mohammed and, you know, I like this. I think this is also coming from our culture and, you know, like, uh, you know, [00:42:00] uh, you know, the way that our, uh, fathers and grandfathers, you know, they, they raised us, you know, about, you know, helping also, uh, people around you. So, but one thing regarding, you know, the, um, you know, the, the way Still, the young generation, let's say, are looking at this, establishing any kind of, uh, you know, business.

Mehmet: Sometime they come to me and they say, you know why we choose this path? Because, you know, when we go and talk, for example, to investors, they are understanding us. Because if we tell them, for example, I'm making a food delivery app. Like I know like in Saudi Arabia, the biggest one is the hunger station.

Mehmet: And you know, there's the other ones they said, okay, they are understanding. So they know hunger station, they can relate. Uh, but if we come, for example, and say, we are doing like this new business, they are not understanding us. And this is why we have to kind of first start with this. And then we, in the future, we're going to pivot in

Mohamed: that.

Mohamed: Like is, uh, I w I would like, I would like to say [00:43:00] something, you see, uh, This is being worked out now because, uh, many business families are leaving the new generation, their kids in charge now, and it's fixing itself eventually. Okay, every problem that we have will be solved by the next generation. Okay, and the next generation and the next and the next and the next so the investors who don't know about it They're already they're having their kids working with them.

Mohamed: Their kids are learning the skills or already they have the skills Do you know what to do? So the there are a few still that don't know about Uh technology, they don't have the background first of all If we have a place in every city, in every major city, okay,

Mehmet: to give

Mohamed: like, for example, a coffee shop or a hotel that's giving, you know, like this auditorium freely for people who have inventions, people who have [00:44:00] startups, you know, we call it the free pitch initiative.

Mohamed: Let them talk, let them talk. When a person talks, okay? It's just like these guys, you know, the Toastmasters. They're honing their skills. They're trying to have a better skill set for convincing another guy. Okay, uh, remember that guy who said, sell me this pen?

Mehmet: Yeah.

Mohamed: Okay. So it's just the same as that. It's a skill.

Mohamed: You know how to sell your idea. For example, tech guys, you know, are very difficult when they explain tech stuff to somebody who does not know. For example, like when you're hearing your doctor said, okay, uh, your, uh, heart rate is like this. You're like, and you're looking, you said, is that okay? Is that I'm okay.

Mohamed: Or there is something wrong. What is this heart rate? And what is this? Pressure is that you're okay. You're okay. You just need to take a few minutes and So Imagine that [00:45:00] somebody is just hearing. Okay, we have the servers and we're gonna do this and we have 50 stuff And we're gonna do some training and stuff like that.

Mohamed: They don't understand. Okay when steve jobs brings you the iphone He doesn't say okay. The ram is this and that is that he said we doubled the capacity So you can do this and that with it Okay, he gives you why we doubled it And what is the value of doubling the RAM? Okay, we're going to do this because of these people.

Mohamed: If you can't explain the business model canvas, you don't need a crazy pitch. Okay. You just go to the investor. He said, imagine you are going to invest 1 million today. How much will it be within 10 years? Worst case scenario, it will be like this. Even worst case scenario, you can sell it to another investor that believes in our RIA if you don't like it anymore.

Mohamed: Okay. Do you want that? Okay. Do you like to [00:46:00] invest in e learning systems? Okay. Okay. Let's look at this. This is an e learning system that changes, adapts. With the person using AI and we're using this AI and we're using this and we're using that and it adapts People with dyslexia some of them they see jumping letters.

Mohamed: Some of them they see disappearing words They see disappearing letters. They see letters going to each other Letters in Arabic don't have the dots and the tashkeel. Okay, this AI can adapt to all of that and can fix it Uh, what is the benefit of enabling a person with dyslexia? How much will they pay?

Mohamed: And if you have a son with this kind of problem, how much would you pay? Would you pay anything in your pocket to make your son better? Is this a good idea or not? Do you want to invest in it or not? He would be invested in it because he knows this is a true problem and people would like to solve the problem.

Mohamed: Okay? It is [00:47:00] how much big of a problem How the problem, how much pain does it cause? And in the end, your solution, will it fit the market or not? See Steve jobs. I'll give you, I will give you, Steve jobs is a genius that nobody will understand maybe for the next 50 years or a hundred years. Okay. Steve jobs.

Mohamed: When he met, you know, you remember the Mac, the color, the one that you can carry, the big ones, the one in the 90s. Okay. Beginning of the 2000. So when he made it, okay. You know, he stopped the whole line. He stopped the whole line. Why? The box doesn't fit in the smallest car. He said, I want the guy to come and buy it and to take the box and to put it in the smallest trunk you have.

Mohamed: I want the box. So he kept, they kept doing models and models of, of, you know, uh, this feline and the fillings and the stuff like that in the boxes. He said, I want it to fit the smallest elevator. I [00:48:00] want it to fit the smallest doors. Okay. So you have, To know where is your client going to use it and how, okay.

Mohamed: I want to make a, uh, an air condition. If the people that are going to carry the air condition and put it to your room, they cannot put it inside the room. Then how are you going to install it? They have to open it outside and it's going to become a hassle. Okay. I wish I picked another brand. Okay. So when you know, where is your product going to move in an elevator, in a car, where it's going to be?

Mohamed: Well, Steve Jobs just did, uh, the podcast is named after the iPod,

Mehmet: right?

Mohamed: This is a fact, but the new generation don't know that. Steve Jobs, when he designed the podcast, he said, okay, uh, sorry, the, the, the iPod, he, he designed it. He wants to find a reason why we have the small pocket in the jeans. Why do we have a small pocket?

Mohamed: Let's, let's make an invention for this pocket. And it [00:49:00] was very, uh, because, uh, uh, 60 or 70 years ago when the jeans first came up or almost a hundred years, there was a function for that pocket, but people forgot. I will tell you. I will tell you a nice story, please. Okay. And this story is controversial.

Mohamed: It's not 100 percent accurate because none of us was, uh, was alive over 700 years ago, but it's a nice story to tell. Okay. Long ago, uh, when they were making the expansions of countries and stuff like that. Uh, during Al Hajjaj period in Iraq, they had to give all the food to, to the soldiers. So there was a problem with, uh, the food ecosystem.

Mohamed: So a guy invented the shop. It's called Da'a Mia. And I think it was Mia Tfils, the, the current, the, the, [00:50:00] the currency, like, uh, uh, uh, it was fils and then dinar. So fils is like, uh, pennies. Okay. So it's like 100 pennies, put 100 pennies and you can eat. All you can, it's like a buffet or something. So they started doing it, uh, with many different stuff.

Mohamed: So what had a huge success and a huge impact was called Zahrat al Fool. It means the flower of fool. Okay. So this was called Da'amiyah and it was moved into, uh, the Northern regions of that country and, uh, the Leviant, what it's called now. Okay. Um, and then it may, they made it with full and then they made it with hummus and then it went to Egypt.

Mohamed: Okay. We know it today as the people call it falafel, but in Arabic we call it, it was originally

Mehmet: wow.

Mohamed: Okay. [00:51:00] People don't know the origins of the stories. If you look back into history, you will find, uh, several, several, several things that would inspire you. Okay. How this. Delicacy survived from that time until today.

Mohamed: Okay. I'll tell you another funny story. Please. Now there is a word in Arabic. It's called Sida. Right. Okay. Sida doesn't have any origin in our language. So I went looking in the books and I found a guy from the UK. He came to Saudi Arabia and he wrote about his experience. Okay. And he said that he created a new word in Arabic.

Mohamed: It's called cda. Okay. So the story is that he came to Saudi Arabia long ago, uh, in the, in the thirties. And then he's trying to communicate with the driver. So he told him there was the huge water building, or a huge tower or something. [00:52:00] So he told him, see that ? So the guy, uh, the driver thought, thought that what he meant is go straight.

Mohamed: So see that became cedar in our language and from long ago until today, everybody knows cedar from just one driver. Imagine the impact of one person on our societies, on the whole region, one word.

Mehmet: Huge. And it's like, uh, the word to go straight in all the Gulf countries. And actually, by the way, because of a lot of people that came and they came back to, to their, uh, countries, it's like, You know, Levant and the and North Africa.

Mehmet: So even now they want to say, go straight, they will tell him, go see that, like, um, which is, you know, like, actually one, one thing, you know, I want to add also Mohammed, but I figured out there's a lot of words that, uh, if you in English, for example, if you think about the origin and you know how it was done, it was like originally from, from, [00:53:00] from Arab origins, I would say, um, yeah.

Mehmet: And the way even like sometimes because in Arabic people for people who listen or watch us like from from other parts of the world. So in Arabic you we have something that's called like composite war. So like it's one word, but it's actually two words. We consider it as one. And when you You know, take the pronunciation and you put it in English or Latin or any other language.

Mehmet: It becomes completely other word, but this has the same meaning. I can't remember exactly one now, but, uh, there's plenty of examples like this. And you know what you are doing now, Mohammed, actually, and I can understand this. So you are showing us the power of storytelling and coming back to Steve job. In my opinion, he's the master off of storytelling.

Mehmet: Because if you think, you know, and the famous, uh, keynote speech when he introduced the iPhone and the way You know, if, if, if I was, you know, I, okay. I was like, this is how many years ago, 20 years [00:54:00] back, uh, maybe less. So I never thought like I have challenges in my, uh, in the keyboard of my phone. I, it never came to my mind.

Mehmet: I thought like, this is the best in breed technology. The way he started to, you know, show how ugly it is. You know, all of a sudden, every single one of us said, Oh, my God, like we were like dumped all these years and we were like pressing, you know, now the other day I was like joking with one of my friend.

Mehmet: I said, Do you remember when you used to send SMS? Using your old Nokia phone, like you need to press three times to get the letter. So, so, but I think the way he, but if he went, if he came and said, Hey, we invented the technology called the multi touch before he, uh, showed the problem. I think we would not accept it maybe, but I think he, he emphasized the, and he framed, yeah, that's the word I was looking for.

Mehmet: He framed the problem in a way. [00:55:00] I think he was mastering this. That, oh my God, like how come I'm living with this problem? I need to buy this technology sooner or later. I, so, so do you, I think Mohammed, we need to teach, you know, like the young entrepreneurs, the storytelling in a much better way, you think, or like, is it a skill, like how we can become better storytellers?

Mohamed: It is a skill. Oh, it is a skill. I learned it when I was writing a novel for, you know, I wanted to. Uh, the favor as, as you would say that, uh, uh, sir Arthur Conan Doyle and, uh, The author of the time machine also gave me because that's the first books I read as a dyslexic person I wanted to read them and the story made me want to finish the book and finish the story So I wanted to write a continuation of that story and to write, you know, my own Addition to the you know [00:56:00] Sherlock Holmes franchise.

Mohamed: It took me Seven years It took me seven years to learn how can I make a story that, uh, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Estate would approve the use of character, uh, the continuation of the story, uh, fixing, uh, a problem that they thought that Sherlock Holmes was still single, you know, and he should get married and, you know, I wouldn't want to burn the story, but, uh, I called it Sherlock Holmes in 2012.

Mohamed: And, uh, it was like a trilogy, and they had a lot of, uh, spelling mistakes, and they left it in the book. It's printed with spelling mistakes to show people how, uh, people with dyslexia write, and, uh, how people would read it, and the difficulty they would have reading the book and the novel, and the mistakes that we have, so they would see how much difficulty we have in reading.

Mohamed: Because I'm writing it [00:57:00] in my way, I'm reading it already in the correct way, but I'm looking at it as a dyslexic. So I think it's, I think it's correct. So I am giving it to people how the way, you know, I wrote it. So, it's like, it's, it's like a double layered message, you know, it's like, uh, I'm giving back to, uh, giving back to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle for the nice stories that he gave us and the nice characters and also letting people know what kind of difficulty we have as dyslexics.

Mehmet: Amazing. Fantastic. Uh, Mohammad, you know, like the conversation can continue and continue probably for hours, but if, if I want, you know, from you, like, uh, Some word of wisdom, let's say, uh, for the fellow entrepreneurs, uh, especially in our region, because I'm big believer that we, you know, between, uh, what happened in Saudi Arabia, in the UEE, you know, even in Egypt and other countries in the past few [00:58:00] years from the nice startups, we started to see and the nice things that are happening all around because I'm big believer.

Mehmet: Now we, we became, um, Like one of the main startup hubs in the world. Like, and I'm not saying this as part of, you know, uh, marketing messaging because I'm living it every day in the streets, right? And I meet people right, left and center. But if you want to

Mohamed: from the apps every day, we're using the apps, the startups, you know, we're benefiting from it every day.

Mohamed: A

Mehmet: hundred percent. So if you, we, you want to give the them like your final piece of advice, what it would be.

Mohamed: See, I would like to say, uh, don't do anything for money. Do it for the passion. Do it to fix a problem. Do it to help somebody who really needs it. Do your research. Well never give up. Never be ashamed of your ideas.

Mohamed: work before you talk and do the research before you talk to anybody, work on it yourself until you feel it's ready to present. [00:59:00] Then go find your team. The team is very important, but the most important thing is that you never give up. This is the best piece of advice. Never give up, move forward. If you fall down, you will step back again.

Mohamed: When we were kids, If we stopped learning how to walk, nobody would have walked. So keep learning, keep moving forward, and thank you all for listening to us. I hope that, uh, today, uh, the spark inside every one of us is brightened a bit more.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Mohammed, where, where people can follow you? Where, where are you most active?

Mohamed: Uh, well actually I'm, I'm active on Instagram, on YouTube and they can also, uh, find me. I have, uh, MBI Mohammed Bahar Institute, they can find of some of my seminars over there. And everything is on my website, mohammed bahar.com. And they're welcome to speak with, with me on any platform they like. I'm on [01:00:00] LinkedIn, I'm on everywhere.

Mehmet: That's amazing. Fantastic. I will make sure I leave, you know, uh, the social links and, you know, the website on the show notes. I really enjoyed, you know, this is, uh, I would say one in a lifetime episode, honestly speaking with you, Mohammed, because, uh, the, the way the first authenticity, your authenticity, second, you know, your stories and your passion, um, to share with the, um, You know, with the society and with the fellow, uh, young generation is really inspiring, inspired me also as well.

Mehmet: So thank you very much for being with me here today. I really appreciate your time. And, uh, usually this is how I end my episodes. Uh, so this is for the, uh, audience. You want to say something?

Mohamed: Let's do something for give for gigs. Live long and prosper, guys.

Mehmet: So if you just discovered this episode by luck, I hope you discovered it.

Mehmet: Uh, so please, you know, subscribe and [01:01:00] share it. I'm trying my best. To, uh, make a small impact by bringing, uh, thought leaders and experts like Muhammad and, you know, other people here in the region and globally to, uh, educate and leave kind of a legacy. This is my hope. So if you find this podcast useful, please share it with your friends and colleagues and anyone who can benefit.

Mehmet: And if you are one of the people who keep coming back to me and write me their comments and feedback, please keep doing so. Please tell me also what you don't like, because I like to enhance things all the time. So I appreciate if you can tell me about this. Thank you very much for tuning in today and we will meet again very soon.

Mehmet: Thank you

Mohamed: guys. Hit the like button, hit the like button.