#390 Fintech Meets Affiliate Marketing: Nicky Senyard’s Insights on Industry Transformation

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Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO show with Mehmet. Today I'm very pleased joining me from the U. S. Nicky Senyad. Nicky, thank you very much for joining me today on the show. The way I love to do it, I was telling you, is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves. Just tell us a bit [00:01:00] about you, your journey and what you're currently up to, and then we can take it from there.

Mehmet: So the floor is yours.

Nicky: Very good. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here. My name is Nicky Senyad, and I'm founder and CEO of FIntel Connect. Fintel Connect is in a unique position in the market, um, that we actually look at working with banks, credit unions, and fintechs to scale their operations.

Nicky: So we're, uh, we're definitely on the growth side.

Mehmet: Fantastic, uh, Nicky, and thank you for being with me here today. The way, you know, the first thing that, uh, you know, I like to start with is where you ended. Um, Like if you can walk me because everyone knows about affiliate marketing, but you know, how have you come up with this, you know, to bring the idea of, uh, getting affiliate marketing in this consumer space, especially banks, because it's not for you know, [00:02:00] very, uh, traditional thing to do that.

Mehmet: So if you can walk us through, you know, what is this, you know, this effort marketing for, for, uh, the banking sector?

Nicky: Yeah, certainly. I think I'm a niche player. I always like to focus on something and be able to go into it really deep. So, um, about, I've been in affiliate marketing 24 years. And like all good ideas, you stumble upon it.

Nicky: It's not necessarily something that you go out and, and go for directly. Always affiliate marketing, but not necessarily in banking. So I had a general affiliate business that I'd started in 2008 and I was lucky enough to be able to secure Scotiabank and Tangerine for two, two big banks in Canada as clients over 2012 I had another affiliate marketing business that I'd actually started in 2002 that was much, much bigger.

Nicky: We were actually, uh, [00:03:00] the dominant affiliate technology supplier for the regulated online gambling industry. So that was my big business and this was my little business. But I ended up exiting my first one in 2016. So then I had this other business that was, uh, that didn't sell. So we took some time off and then decided in about 2018, 2019 to rewrite the technology and focus just on financial services.

Nicky: When I started in 2012, The industry wasn't ready for it. Digital consumption wasn't there for banking products. Banking technology wasn't there. And probably most importantly, we weren't consuming information like we are now on our phones. So, I think it's a really good example of not every good idea is the right idea at the right time, but in 2008, 2000, sorry, 2018.

Nicky: It [00:04:00] seemed like a really good idea. So we did it So taking a bit of risk and taking a bit of reward and we went for it.

Mehmet: That's really fantastic. And you know, like very true about You know, sometimes you have the right product, but it's not the right timing and then It's like a coincidence just today. I was like with Some some friends and you know, we're exactly talking about this how sometime a product comes so early in the market So people cannot You know imagine how to use it and then After a couple of you say, oh, you know what like there was just this product that it would have fit today Unfortunately, but you're lucky.

Mehmet: I think Nicky and I think the industry is lucky because You waited and then you came back because usually what happens people they give up because you know They had like this Bad moment. You know, they think that, oh, we, we're not like right for, for, you know, entrepreneurship or being, you know, founders.

Mehmet: So, but good that you came back. Now, what I wonder, you know, as [00:05:00] someone who also worked with financial institutions and banks and so on in, in, you know, different, uh, roles, I know like they are not the easiest to to work with when it comes, you know, for regulations for, you know, like the thing that they want.

Mehmet: So how do you make sure that with, with, with, uh, Fintel Connect, uh, you know, you gave them, I mean, the confidence that, okay, like this is, would be within the regulatory considerations that we have, like everything would be fine. Um, you know, because people also, they, they, they tend to think that these guys, they don't like the change very fast also as well.

Mehmet: So how have you dealt with all this?

Nicky: Slowly and surely is probably the best way to describe it. Um, I think the fact that regulated online gambling was regulated, so I'm used to regulated markets. And I'm used to being able to appreciate the mindset of the people that we're [00:06:00] working with. Um, and I think what the thing is, is that over time, You get to understand what the, I suppose, speed bumps are.

Nicky: And I think what it was, was that affiliate marketing for financial services has actually been around a very, very long time. And I think in the industry, we would be the David versus the established players, Goliaths, if that makes sense. So it's not that we're trying to bring them into that. It happens.

Nicky: So we're not sort of like starting the ball rolling, but what we're doing is that. We're creating a much, much better widget for the financial services market than it's currently being provided. And I think where the situation is, is that you get to understand. The regulations, the concerns and the impacts, and then you manage to that.

Nicky: I mean, for the fact that we've actually developed a piece of, uh, marketing, um, compliance tool [00:07:00] using artificial intelligence, because we understand that that's really where the pointy bit is for these financial institutions is to make sure that all content out there to the best of their ability is compliant, which means disclaimers, interest rates are correct, all of those sorts of things, which is what the regulators are coming down very hard on.

Nicky: So we're actually developing tools to be able to help the banks do that through leveraging technology. So I think this is what happens when you become such a, um, niche player is you actually become synonymous or one with your audience, as it were, and you're actually able to help develop functions and features that will make everybody's life easier within the regulatory environment.

Nicky: Does that make sense?

Mehmet: Absolutely. And I like, you know, the way you started like slowly and steadily. And I think this is the right approach, especially, uh, with any, um, I would say domain that has [00:08:00] high, uh, standards for regulations. And, you know, because We just, you just also like explained how, how, how things moved over there.

Mehmet: So absolutely. And you know, it made a lot of sense now from the technology perspective, Nicky, um, I know like usually they would have, and you just mentioned like back in 20, Uh, and even before, you know, they didn't, we didn't have that much technology. There was like not much, uh, uh, things to, to do probably old systems, legacy systems, but still, when you try it again, you know, this time, have you and your team, have you faced or encountered any really challenges?

Mehmet: integrating, you know, with, with their system. And if so, how did you overcome that?

Nicky: I think the integration and how we get the data to make affiliate marketing work is the, it's a 64 [00:09:00] million question. I mean, what we're doing is we're integrating with new technologies like AppsFlyer for mobile tracking, but then we're integrating with massively old legacy systems like FIS or Jack Henry.

Nicky: Um, and as much of these guys try to progressing forward, they're still legacy technology. So we actually find that our integration, I think, falls into probably three main buckets. One is legacy technology from old banking platforms. Um, the other one would be digital account opening and loan origination systems, which are somewhat more nimble and newer or the new kids on the block, because they've actually formed deliberately to help banks get more online customers.

Nicky: Um, and then the third is probably the most nimbleness is the fintechs, um, and they're the ones that have got really good. Streamlined technology systems, because that's what they're built for. [00:10:00] So I think what we do is we go through the range of technological, um, challenges, I suppose, integrating, um, but all of it comes down to basically good data.

Nicky: And being able to access it. And that's a really big thing that's changed from now from then, is that the amount of data and analytics that are available because of technology and because of the way we track, um, it's great.

Mehmet: Yeah, absolutely. Just out of curiosity, Nicky, and this is a question that I didn't prepare before because you just mentioned, uh, Fintechs, you know, and you know, all the new startup that came up there.

Mehmet: And by the way, like, We are seeing them all over the place in North America, even here in the Middle East. So do you think like also, you know, when these guys start to come also, they push the banks to be like more also flexible,

Nicky: right? So yeah, absolutely. And that also goes into what I've seen historically.

Nicky: So in 2000, let's say [00:11:00] 2012, Banks are it, whatever you can get online with the bank is what you've got. And then after that period of time, around that period of time comes the neobanks, right? So we're not even into FinTech area yet, or probably we are, but sort of like more nichey, not mainstream consumer.

Nicky: And so the neobanks came in and really started to push What consumers became comfortable with because they leveraged technology, they leveraged all of the sort of like still banking rails that you needed. So we were still safe and secure, but they started to push it. And then you've got fintechs that build on top of what the neobanks have done.

Nicky: And they're even more. Flexible or, and I find fintechs are actually more niche. What they do is they've found a situational problem that they don't think has done well. Robin Hood, for example, they saw the trading wasn't being done or accessible or individualized so that they actually, they're more single fintechs.

Nicky: I find a more [00:12:00] single purpose or were more single purpose and now have expanded into different other banking streams. But then, so the banks had to stay relevant, and that's where the digital account opening products came from. So then the digital account opening products give more breadth and depth to the banks.

Nicky: So now we have the playing field that we do, which is a combination of credit unions, banks, fintechs and neobanks that are now looking at giving consumers the experience that they're looking for where they want it. Which is very different from the branch.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, like, uh, I agree with you because, you know, I love the way Nicky, you're putting it for us in the stages and you know how things, you know, went step by step.

Mehmet: So absolutely on that. Now I want to jump on something else. And, you know, because we'll take we're talking about everything new and how things are getting. So I know like, you know, You know, you, you talk [00:13:00] usually about, I like this, this naming convention for influencers, right? So, um, and mainly it's like for targeting the genties, right?

Mehmet: So, um, tell me more about the concept of influencers and how this concept, you know, could be powerful tool for attracting the younger generations to, uh, To the financial industry.

Nicky: I think I think my one of the things that I'm most passionate about with the business that we're building is that I take financial literacy very seriously.

Nicky: And I think the way that we are working with a whole lot of publishers that we do in North America is actually helping them spread the message of how financial literacy It's important, but also then how to do it or different tips and trade, different tricks and ideas about financial literacy. [00:14:00] And I think where you get into these influences that focus on financial literacy, you're just reaching an absolutely another group.

Nicky: The, one of the reasons that I love affiliate marketing is because my background is, is in PR and media. And I always saw that the journalists were a conduit. To being able to share the message of what anybody's product is, and in the world that I'm in now, publishers, whether it be Bankrate, um, Business Insider, Forbes, Nerd Wallet, Credit Karma, all of these guys are actually there sharing the message of what financial products do and what, what the elements of financial literacy are.

Nicky: So I think what you do is you take it one step further away from that. Building on the story. And then what you've got is you've got these influencers out there that are doing the same thing through different mediums. And instead of them being the establishment, [00:15:00] like a Forbes, um, what you've got is you've got somebody that actually does trading really well, or somebody that's learned themselves and are teaching others as they go.

Nicky: So I think what it is, is the platforms that are out there being the TikToks, the Facebooks and the, um, Instagrams are giving an opportunity for these people who have. Um, depth of financial understanding. We're hoping, um, to be able to share it with an audience and do it in a medium that they're familiar with now.

Nicky: I mean, because when I first started getting into affiliate marketing, Facebook didn't even exist. So, what we've done is I've seen these different platforms given ability to share a message. In a place and a way that people are more comfortable with. So I think where these influences come in is that they've just been able to capitalize on their own passion, their own interests.

Nicky: And I think I'm hoping in the good of my heart that they're not only building a business and looking at [00:16:00] their own financial independence, but they're also looking to share that because financial literacy. And the power of financial literacy is something that I think is very, um, creates a lot of freedom for people.

Nicky: So that's my sort of altruistic way of looking at it.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Just, you know, also out of what you just mentioned now, Nicky, From your experience and what you what you see on the ground Do you think like this new generation the gen z's are like they tend to be more skeptical I would say about Traditional marketing and this is why they look for the influencers.

Mehmet: Like is this what I think? I think No,

Nicky: I don't I I don't agree with that Why I don't, I'm not saying they're not skeptical. So yes, I do agree with that element, but I just think they used to, um, consuming media wherever they're, they hang [00:17:00] out. So if you, I mean, there's a whole lot of that generation that doesn't even use Facebook.

Nicky: Whereas at a time, Facebook was the internet to some people. So, you know, I think it's basically where you're comfortable is way. I mean, there's lots of people that are comfortable with the newspaper of a generation past. So if it doesn't, isn't in black and white and print, it's not real. So I think where it is, is it's just being appreciative that each generational component gets to be more familiar with the type of technology, so therefore they're more comfortable getting their information through that medium.

Nicky: And I'm not saying they're not skeptical, because guys, these guys have been hounded with a whole lot of different materials from the time that they were two. So they get very discerning. Um, and so I think where you've got more authenticity, um, as opposed to big marketing channels, it, um, can sometimes hit that sweet spot and [00:18:00] get past that, get, get the knowledge to be

Mehmet: shared.

Mehmet: That's fantastic. It's good you brought the, you know, the topic of authenticity, because again, You know, I tried to analyze and you know, see what happens on different Social media platforms, especially where the gen z's would be hanging there the the most um They are very smart indeed. They are very smart like they they can immediately, uh, spot if something is wrong or like, for example, if they see someone imitating, or let's say copying the same style, whatever the product is or the service.

Mehmet: So, so you see that, Oh, why are you doing this? Why do that now mentioning this Nicky, and this is something it applies for probably every industry, but because we are talking about affiliate marketing and, you know, if you went some marketing and all this now with the. New AI and you know, [00:19:00] like now you can have an AI avatar actually that can act as your influencer, right?

Mehmet: Uh, and of course it can be Finfluencer in, in, in this case. Are you seeing people, you know, ready to, from consumer perspective to trust, you know, this technique? I mean, trust in a sense, okay, probably this is a bot talking, but Right? So it's promoting a product or service,

Nicky: and I I'm sorry. I can't. I can only talk from my perspective because I don't know.

Nicky: Yeah, my my perception is that any tool, whether it's a shovel, whether it's a washing machine, whether it's AI technology, it's there for a function and a purpose. And I think when you try to, um, if you take. If you try to dry clothes in a washing machine, it's not going to work. It's, it's not fit for purpose.

Nicky: [00:20:00] So I think when you come to artificial intelligence, I think it's there to synthesize a hell of a lot of data and actually be able to draw, um, its own, its conclusions. It doesn't mean that they're the right conclusions. And I think where it comes with, um, Artificial intelligence, it's just it's it's actually just the synthesization of data, which business intelligence tools have been doing for generations.

Nicky: But now it's just actually in applied to a whole lot of different other. Mediums, like, if you put into a, I, where's the best place to go for the sunniest holiday. I mean, you could find that data and you could look for it, but this presents it in a, it, a speed of agility with a whole lot of different sources that you wouldn't have maybe found.

Nicky: So I see that I'm hoping that the generation that has been now bought up with AI will [00:21:00] see it as a tool to an end, not the end.

Mehmet: Um,

Nicky: because I think the end is something that still needs a whole lot of human distinction for it. Um, and I know that even, you know, like, I, especially in my area where there's a lot of content being written, um, and AI content generation is not correct, but it's not incorrect.

Nicky: So I think where it is, is it's a starting place. It's not the end place. That would probably be my conclusion for it. And I mean, people are clever. They can sort of like, they see and people aren't going to just, in my opinion, use one source. So you may use AI to collect something, but then you'll learn, then you'll do your own primary research, wherever that happens to be.

Nicky: Or I'm suggesting highly that people do their own primary research to actually get the nuance because it's the devil's in the detail. [00:22:00] And I think sometimes those details with, um, AI are missing or wrongly skewed, maybe is the best way of putting it.

Mehmet: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, thank you for mentioning that this is your point of view, of course, like, um, but the idea is like, because you have your experience also Nicky.

Mehmet: So probably you can have this analysis about this topic. And the reason I asked the question again, as I was saying, like this is really, um, nice insight. Now I want to jump a little bit, uh, to talk about entrepreneurship, uh, with you. Sure. Uh, so you, you successfully built and exited, you know, as you mentioned in your, uh, in your introduction. So from, again, your experience, um. What was the main lessons that you've learned and then you applied it in your current venture in Fintech

Nicky: Connect?

Nicky: Oh my god, there's so many lessons that I keep on learning them. It's like you think you get to the point [00:23:00] This business, I really did perceive that I could do it. Like I'd done it before I bootstrapped the first business. We successfully built it from three people to just under a hundred. Um, I, we did all of those sorts of things and we exited it successfully, which is, I think the, the testament to the, to the journey and being able to do it.

Nicky: I started again and I really felt we had money this time. We've got experience. We, we, and we had a good base to come from. But I think the thing that I underestimated was that. Starting a business is hard. Like, it is so hard and I forgot how hard it was. Um, but I think the thing is that, uh, it's just sticking to your knitting.

Nicky: It's just making sure that you understand where revenue is coming from. You understand the risks that you need to manage. It's, it's [00:24:00] really about risk management. It's about risk tolerance and it's about being uncomfortable the whole time because, um, it's something that I'm passionate about. And I love, uh, because I, I'm a problem solver.

Nicky: So, to me, building a business is really just purely about problem solving, problem solving to build the business, problem solving to help. Your customers and for us, we were a marketplace. So it's problem solving to help the, uh, publishers as well. So the whole thing to me is just a really big, how can we move things around so that everybody gets what they're needing?

Nicky: Um, but I think the biggest thing for me is that. We changed tracks. So you've got affiliate marketing, which is the technology platform. Online gambling is its own culture, its own beast, and then finance is its own beast again. [00:25:00] So I think what I did was I underestimated the. Deep rootedness of difference in the industry.

Nicky: So I've met a lot of entrepreneurs, serial entrepreneurs, but they end up doing it again in the same tranche where they were before. So they've got the connections, they've got the understanding, they've got the landscape. And I think I, Didn't think about that second. So now know that that's another element that you need to consider.

Nicky: It's sort of like the environment that you come into. I've met a lot of entrepreneurs in banking that have come from banking, whether they're on the technology side or whether they're on the supplier side, or whether they're in a bank and see an issue and want to do something, um, or a supplier to a bank.

Nicky: So I find that a lot of the entrepreneurs that I'm hanging around. come from that. So they don't understand what it's like not having that and trying to start a business in that area.

Mehmet: That's [00:26:00] really, you know, I would say inspiring, right? Uh, but, but the thing you, you, you just mentioned something about being serial entrepreneur and you know, how usually people, they, they stay within the same range, but like, if someone, do you think the more The challenge is big, you know, to go and take this step into this new venture.

Mehmet: So the more the more the itch, the more, you know, the this fire inside would be that I want to go solve this problem. So you get it better after each time. And do you think like the people who usually they are also serial entrepreneur, but they stay more or less within the same domain, you know, Like they get into kind of a comfort zone, which is actually, it's a controversial to what an entrepreneur usually should be.

Mehmet: Do you agree with that?

Nicky: I think each their own. And I think people do they, it was never my goal [00:27:00] to be an entrepreneur. It was never my career goal to be an entrepreneur. I think where it was, was it just like, Oh, this is like, this is a problem. I can solve that problem. And I think that's a lot of times where people go into it.

Nicky: I liked the idea of working for myself. I liked the idea of building a culture that I liked and I wanted to be in. So I think mine was. More, um, more, a lot of little steps than a big vision to be an entrepreneur or build a multi million dollar business or, or any of those sorts of things. It was just, just seemed like the natural progression.

Nicky: And I think that's why. I didn't necessarily, I don't know that I was particularly strategic first time around, um, in terms of how I did it or what I did then. Now, very differently, but again, it's about and there are different types of entrepreneurs in the fact that there are some businesses [00:28:00] where you do proof of concept and you're rolled up into something pretty quickly within a couple of years.

Nicky: Or the businesses that I seem to build, which are very deep rooted. Like the first business that I built is now 22 years old and still market dominant and still going strong. So I think there's different types of entrepreneurship around this as well. I just happen to like solving something well. And very solidly

Mehmet: fantastic Uh as we are almost close to the end Nicky if you want to leave the audience with kind final words um Regarding if they were if they are deciding, you know, you said you didn't decide to be out there But if someone you know are now sitting listening or maybe watching us and they think about to become entrepreneur.

Mehmet: So what do you advise them to look for, uh, to break into becoming entrepreneur, especially in the field that you're more, uh, you know, familiar with, whether it's like from a [00:29:00] marketing perspective or now, uh, the, the finance, the financial sector. I

Nicky: think what I would suggest to any entrepreneur starting is be very aware of your revenue.

Nicky: And just where you make your revenue and how you make your revenue and what risks on revenue, because to me, revenue for a business is it's lifeblood. And to be able to understand that. You work out from the center, so being revenue stream where you get it, how you secure it, how you can keep it going.

Nicky: That's to me, the start and then the next thing is the infrastructure around supplying that and then the infrastructure around supplying that. So, I think what it is is. I think there's a whole lot of people out there that probably have good. Um, what I call lifestyle businesses. Where they're making money, but it's not necessarily a business that they can sell.

Nicky: And I think with some [00:30:00] really simple tweaks and changes, it becomes an asset. As opposed to a cash flow, and I think this is where the distinction on the type of business that you have. Is really, um, critical for your long term vision. So I've always wanted to build asset businesses that eventually I get a great lifestyle.

Nicky: I get a great experience, but eventually I can sell it like a house. Um, some people have, uh, Uh, what I call it lifestyle business, it's where they've got a cash flow and they've got a good life and quality of life, but it isn't something that's going to be easily able to sell, be sold because it's based on their approach or their personality.

Nicky: So I always would recommend for somebody to decide whether you want a lifestyle business or whether you want an asset business and then take the appropriate steps to shape it into what you're looking for.

Mehmet: Absolutely. And you know, like this can be a topic for an episode by itself, [00:31:00] Nicky, regarding, because of course I see a lot of debates among, uh, uh, especially young generation when it comes, if they want to have a lifestyle business versus a, as you said, like a business that they can sell in the future, asset business.

Mehmet: Exactly. Um, um, Yeah. And again, you know, respect for both schools, I would say. Um, you know, but the only thing I usually tell people, if you decide to go for the lifestyle business, one thing you need to think about, if something happens to you, you need to think what, what will happen, right? So if you get sick, God forbid, you know, I don't know, uh, you need to, to plan all this.

Mehmet: So you need to have like proper planning. And of course, as you said, Nicky, um, the assets you can, it's an asset, right? So you can sell it, you can rely on it after, uh, after the time. So absolutely, you know, very, very insightful. Nicky, where people can find more about your current company and [00:32:00] to get connected with you.

Nicky: Very simply, FintelConnect. com, which is where we live, um, and it's just Nicky at FintelConnect. com. So I'm really happy to, um, especially if, and I mean, this is the shameless plug. If you're a financial institution out there looking to scale and grow, where, where your best bet, that's probably the best way of putting it.

Mehmet: Fantastic. Fantastic. I will make sure that. You know, the links are in the show notes. So people who are listening this so they can get that and all they are watching us on YouTube. So they can see also that in the description. Uh, Nicky, thank you very much for your time. I know you were on vacation when we recorded this.

Mehmet: So thank you for, you know, giving us the time. Uh, and this is how usually I add my episodes. This is for the audience If you just discovered this podcast by luck, thank you for passing by. I hope you enjoyed if you did So, please subscribe and share it with your friends and colleagues And if you are one of the people who keep coming keeps coming back and send me their [00:33:00] encouragement.

Mehmet: Thank you for doing so Keep sending me your questions your you know suggestions. I read them all and as I say you as usual Stay tuned for a new episode very soon. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye