#412 Bridging AgriTech and FinTech: Ahraz Hussain on Financial Innovation for Farmers

Mehmet: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO show with Mehmet. Today I'm very pleased joining me from the US, Ahraz Hussain, who is the VP for product engineering and data at Growers Edge. Ahraz, thank you very much for being with me on the show today. As I was telling you before we actually started the recording, I like to keep it to my guests to introduce themselves, tell us a little bit more about your background, your journey, and what you're currently up to.

Mehmet: So the floor is yours.

Ahraz: Thank you, Mehmet. Again, thanks for having me. As I said earlier, it's an honor to be on your show. Hey, all. My name is Ahraz Hussain. I am the VP of Product Engineering and Data Science here at Growers Edge, as Mehmet already alluded to. Growers Edge is a fintech company focused on the agriculture sector based out of the Midwest U.

Ahraz: S., primarily serving farmers and their advisors here in the Midwest U. S. We I've been around for a couple of years and have a few different products in the [00:01:00] marketplace. Hopefully we'll have a chance to discuss, learn more about him later. Before I joined Grow Research, which is where I've been for the last two and a half years, I spent seven years at Corteva AgriScience when it was still known as a subsidiary company.

Ahraz: So I was a part of the pioneer side. I went through the Dow DuPont mojo and spun off into the Corteva business pitch. Who is the world's largest publicly traded, uh, farm and puts company on the planet. So really exciting times there as well. So I can comfortably say I've spent a decade in agriculture, mostly focused on the U S markets.

Ahraz: And, uh, you know, it's just been thrilling, a pleasure to see all the innovation that, that, that agriculture actually does have, but usually people don't realize. And, uh, Yeah, my background is technology. I have been within the data analytics AI space ever since I've been an ad for the last decade, and I continue pursuing that.

Ahraz: I'm really excited about this recent AI boom as well. Now, finally, people are [00:02:00] realizing there's more to AI than just some back end models, uh, which is always fascinating. And, uh, People totally seem more more and more open now than ever before. I am primarily from India That's where I grew up. I did my undergrad in computer engineering moved to the US about 11 years ago And yeah, that's that's a little about my journey Mehmet.

Mehmet: Thank you very much Ahraz again for being with me Um, and this is I think if i'm not mistaken, you know, I have done Plenty of interviews with people like yourself, Aras. And I think today our topic is a first on the podcast. Um, you know, the intersection of agriculture and technology. Probably maybe when I was still doing solo episodes in the beginning of the podcast, uh, One year and a half ago, I was mentioning about like agri tech in the sense of, you know, like IOT and so on.

Mehmet: But I think, you know, the use cases where technology can intersect with agriculture are much broad, you know, and [00:03:00] beyond just, you know, the IOT stuff. So what I want you to do is just, you know, give Us as audience and people who are interested in in tech and you know, I'm passionate people knows it So tell me more about the intersection because you're also doing fintech.

Mehmet: So this is really interesting Like if someone tells me fintech like agriculture, maybe it will not Be the first use case that come to mind. So walk me through a little bit more about, you know, um, this intersection and what you exactly, you know, you've been, uh, been doing in this space, especially at your current role at Growers Edge.

Ahraz: Yeah, absolutely Mehmet. So, uh, you're pretty much giving me the floor to go on and on for a couple of hours, uh, into a few short minutes, but agriculture has always been very Technology first, right? So even today, we hear about GMOs, right? Genetically modified seed, etc, etc. That's all technology. Uh, but those things don't exist 100 years [00:04:00] ago.

Ahraz: It's due to science and just Perseverance of, you know, the innovators and everybody in the space to build those technologies, farmers to adopt those technologies and everybody hopefully to see the benefit of them and, uh, GMO was just an example that I'm throwing out there. There's so much more to it. Uh, in the U.

Ahraz: S. For example, we have, uh, Huge machines that farmers use, uh, to plant seed, to apply fertilizer, to, uh, harvest, and a lot of them are now automated. So, they, they are, they can drive themselves, they can take care of the details themselves, uh, if you just need somebody to monitor. So, think of Tesla, but, you know, driving around on a farm, harvesting.

Ahraz: Corn, I guess. And obviously, uh, remote sensing, you know, uh, Internet of Things to track soil moisture and other factors have all played a big, big role in us getting a better sense of, uh, the macro ecosystems at first, right? But now micro ecosystems, we in agriculture are talking about microclimate, which is climate at a [00:05:00] field level, not even a farm level, at a field.

Ahraz: So really bad at five acres, 10 acres, 20 acres level. And there is definitely a lot that goes into being able to as a farmer, right? Find the right products to go into your fields. Uh, a lot of them are new products. A lot of them leverage variable rate technology. So you only apply, say, fertilizer at a rate that you need to at this part of the field.

Ahraz: And, you know, a different part of the field gets a lot more of it. To be precise, uh, you know, slopes, for example, is where you see runoff of fertilizer. So you want to maybe over apply a little in areas where Fortaleza is going to run off and collect. Maybe you want to apply a little less off, right?

Ahraz: Because otherwise you're just wasting money and so on. So that, you know, so it's really the hardware. It's a ton of biotechnology, as I just alluded to, and obviously fintech, which is, uh, another area where it grows edge. And we've been focused on for the last couple of years. What really is fintech for agriculture?

Ahraz: It's effectively we deliver, it's having the [00:06:00] question on how do we deliver financial products, uh, be it, you know, savings accounts or, you know, programs and discounts or, uh, the financing needed to, uh, buy inputs, buy a farm, buy equipment, etc, etc. As a farmer and do it effectively and efficiently, it Probably wouldn't come as a surprise that the financial organizations that support agriculture are usually a little specialized.

Ahraz: 'cause for example, when any one of us goes and buys a house, uh, we get a price based on our credit worthiness or our income or the amount of down payment. We're putting down a, uh, bunch of other factors. But in agriculture, these factors drastically vary because the. Net income for a farmer. It depends on the commodity prices that they can sell the products on and commodity prices change up and down year on year, despite the volume of what they can produce their income changes.

Ahraz: How do you really use that? [00:07:00] And evaluate the risk from a financial perspective to be able to price something and effectively put out a loan that goes out 20 years without any idea of how commodity prices and yields and other factors might look like. And I should talk about yields and output really, right, at a farm level as well, which is massively influenced by weather.

Ahraz: And in a bad weather year, you know, yields fall, commodity prices go up. But if it is your farmers that you're working with the financial institution that didn't do well Well, you're gonna be hurt and so on. So it's fintech for ag is really about accessibility. It's really about risk management It is really about flexibility in terms of the services and terms and everything else that can be offered

Mehmet: Fantastic as and you know, like for this Detailed explanation and you know eye opening I would say Um, so I know, you know, we can't talk technology today without mentioning AI, right.

Mehmet: And [00:08:00] touching, you know, the AI use cases, uh, for, you know, agriculture specifically with this combination of the finance part also as well. Um, and because you lead the product, right. And, and again, I'm, I'm very biased to product people are, as people know by now. Um, so how, you know, how have you seen, you know, the acceptance, I would say from the ultimate users, which for you, I think they are the farmers.

Mehmet: Right. So, um, so how have you seen the acceptance from them and how have you seen AI being able to show the kind of the ROI of the value for, for getting. These AI technologies into agriculture.

Ahraz: Now that that's a wonderful question, Mehmet, and so many different ways I can answer that. But in a nutshell, most people think farmers are [00:09:00] technology averse, even though I can challenge anybody and Say that most farmers are using a ton of technologies to monitor their fields, at least in the U.

Ahraz: S. They, you know, use remote sensing to monitor fields, use drones to find specific problems, use drones and other methods to target spray, right? We have seen spray technology among others. So I feel from an AI perspective and in an ROI perspective, there are a couple of different things. AI in some instances has been able to drastically reduce expenses very directly without impacting output from the farm, which again, It's super easy to see the ROI on, uh, and case in point would be variable rate fertilizer applications that I just talked about earlier or variable rate seeding, uh, as well as, you know, various prescriptions around different micronutrients among others.

Ahraz: So, as far as that can be used, uh, in some instances, you go take a sample of soil. see what the nutrients that look like and then go [00:10:00] apply whatever nutrients might be missing. The alternate is you use models to simulate what might be using ground calibration, uh, methods and then, you know, make a best estimate and use those, which again, very directly reduces cost due to, uh, it not requiring soil sampling, which is expensive and time consuming both today, unfortunately.

Ahraz: And so on. So AI has been around, obviously, even today, farmers prefer to know the actuals before they go and do something. But, uh, you know, so getting information perhaps has not been, uh, something that's been replaced by synthetic data sets and analytics just yet. But, uh, how that information is used in order to, uh, apply prescriptions and take some actions.

Ahraz: Yes, AI is there today. We've seen a lot of other phenomenal companies such as Syngenta, uh, now offering more sophisticated AI driven models to their farmer advisors. So economists who are leveraging more advanced AI, you know, tools to gain, [00:11:00] collect information, which they can then understand and translate and put into actions with their farmer customers and so on.

Ahraz: So that's one huge area. The second one, obviously, if you have. seen a ton of companies try to evaluate the ROI of different actions and simulate what might be if something is done or not done, uh, from an ROI perspective. Now we've had crop models around for decades, so it's not something drastically new, like it's not leveraging Gen AI or, uh, and such, but AI and Ag has mostly been a function of What I would say non black box models, so things that you can explain, you can understand.

Ahraz: So you can really understand the implications and the drive of the certain prescriptions that come out of those models. So it might be what seed should I plan to, what crop should I plan to, uh, how can I optimize some very specific things at the farm level.

Mehmet: That's fantastic. And you know, Ara, thank you for bringing something very interesting, I believe, which is, you know, like how AI is, it's, it's not just, it's, [00:12:00] about, you know, the gen AI wave, right?

Mehmet: So we keep repeating this also with my guests on, on, uh, on every episode, almost that guys, you know, AI has been here for a while and, you know, it's not only about the chat GPTs and Gemini's and all this stuff. So it's like much more than this. Um, one, what, one area which I'm also interested in, um, Because you mentioned about this planning, you know, and, uh, the crop planning and all this, this stuff.

Mehmet: So, um, like how, how do you see, you know, um, this transforming actually from a farming practices, like transforming, you know, the way farmers are used to, to, to plan. Um, and, you know, because sometimes maybe this has an effect, uh, not only about, you know, What they're gonna plant or maybe, you know, what's the best but also maybe it has some [00:13:00] effects on maybe Environmental or maybe economic challenges within the agriculture.

Mehmet: So I mean, it's not only about like what should I plant, right? So so it might be beyond this I want to hear from you about the sustainability aspect of it also as well as if you don't mind

Ahraz: Absolutely, Mehmet and You know, uh, we at Growers Edge, and even when I was at Coteva, uh, really work closely with a lot of farmers, uh, farmers that are wonderful stewards of their land.

Ahraz: And I've had some really interesting conversations, personally, around sustainability with, with farmers. And it's really come down to, hey, I own the land. I care about the land. I've had it in the family for generations. Why do you think I don't? Want to take care of it like we are taking care of it, right?

Ahraz: That's how the plan is still producing and doing well Uh, obviously when we think of sustainability from a consumer perspective, we're thinking more about the environmental impact outside Literally the farm levels right, you know run off into rivers of [00:14:00] chemicals or uh, You know, just the degradation of soil in some instances and, and, and so on.

Ahraz: So one thing I always like to joke about is I don't want to be a farmer because there is so many nuances to being a farmer, so many decisions to be made and you do everything right. And then, you know, mother nature comes and ruins everything at the last minute when things are looking really good. So it's, it's just.

Ahraz: And all you can do is just sit by and, you know, uh, see things go down, health, but you know, there's so many decisions from a planning standpoint, uh, Mehmet, you start with, you know, what crops am I looking at? Am I going to grow crops? Do I want to plant some vegetables or go for, you know, just, just some, some longer term trees and whatnot for nuts, et cetera.

Ahraz: really depends where you are. And then how am I going to go about doing that? Is it something, for example, a lot of farmers in the U. S. a couple of decades ago used to plant corn after corn after corn, year after year after year. And for those that don't know this, corn is insanely nutrient intensive. It takes a lot of water because you have these huge [00:15:00] plants that grow in a matter of months today and they need an immense amount of nutrition.

Ahraz: So a lot of fertilizer, a lot of water and And if you keep doing that year after year after year, it will deprive the land of its nutrients. And so over a few decades ago, we saw a lot of crop rotations happen where soybeans are planted with corn here in the U. S. And now we are seeing more cover crops in the wintertime to replenish some of the nutrients, which very directly, maybe not in year one, two or three, but over time reduces.

Ahraz: fertilizer costs for farmers when they plant, uh, you know, corn in the summertime, for example, and so on. So we are seeing a lot of transition to more crops in the rotation. So you aren't planting the same crop. We're seeing a lot more smartness around how much fertilizer should I apply. While it is also great from a sustainability perspective, it is also great from a financing perspective, but fertilizer is.

Ahraz: Probably the most expensive thing you're going to use at a farm and then of course, uh, it's all the other government incentives and programs we have in the U. S. carbon credits where, [00:16:00] uh, farmers who choose to, you know, transition into some very specific practices like the reduced tillage or some fertilizers on the farm level, et cetera, get compensated, uh, for reducing tillage.

Ahraz: That's interesting. Emissions are more importantly for capturing carbon, for example, or reducing carbon emissions, etc, etc, very directly as well.

Mehmet: Perfect Now one area you mentioned previously, but I want to re highlight on it also Araz, which is i'm a little bit biased because you know, um Whenever I hear the word risk And risk management I get hooked uh for plenty of reasons, uh, you know related to my career or maybe so You When we talk about, you know, risk for farmers, of course, there are plenty, right?

Mehmet: Uh, but with your current work, I mean, and in the, again, utilizing the technology to reduce these risks. So if you can walk us through, you know, what kind of risk we're talking about here and, you know, how [00:17:00] the technology is helping to reduce these, uh, these risks, knowing that, you know, like, uh, you have, uh, pioneered something like the.

Mehmet: Uh crop land prescription warranties, right? So, um, walk us through a little bit, uh, this, uh, this area.

Ahraz: Yeah, absolutely Mehmet. So, uh, we, so in agriculture, right, you know, you said it, there are so many different risks, the risks of being able to produce enough volume, the risk of finding a buyer that'll pay you the right price.

Ahraz: And, you know, everything else in between, you know, you make a board decision, buying a specific. Seed or a specific product that underperforms drastically. It can have catastrophic implications on your outcomes. You buy a land and, you know, you have huge payments to make. And then all of a sudden you go. Uh, have one to not so good years and you can't continue making the payment.

Ahraz: So there is a ton of Challenges if you're a farmer [00:18:00] at a farm level, uh, and and most of them have very direct financial implications Uh knowing how across the globe a lot of farmers are farming in a very personal capacity Like they don't have businesses that run the farms. It's literally them Taking on personal liabilities and whatnot a bad year could mean they can't afford to pay You know You know, for anything personally, even in a lot of instances, it just becomes a big deal.

Ahraz: So here in the US, we are really fortunate to have a lot of governmental oversight and support. When it comes to farming, we have what's known as federal crop insurance, which is subsidized by the government, by the way, and which offers farmers a pretty decent level of protection. So, uh, and most farmers, it started with, uh, what we like to call as yield protection.

Ahraz: So in bad weather years, the insurance. Can be purchased and it'll pay for, uh, extreme weather events and farmers are going to be protected against those. Uh, and then it evolved to be more revenue protection. Now there are, which [00:19:00] locks in a price for your commodity or products that you're growing. And then we're moving on to margin protections, which is, hey, based on the last 10 years of how your margins have looked like, we'll try to make sure that your margin stay consistent, which.

Ahraz: You know, it really helps in a lot of different ways. Obviously, we've seen parametric insurance, et cetera, come, come into place as well. So, uh, without getting too detailed into the insurance side of the equation, uh, Growers Edge, uh, realized really early on that everybody. And when I say everybody, I mean, everybody that serves the farmer with their products claims that their products are going to have a yield advantage of sorts.

Ahraz: I still remember, uh, sifting through a local newspaper here in Iowa. And on one page was a product that I was involved with claiming a five bushel advantage and two pages later There was a literal competing product claiming a four bushel advantage on our product So clearly one of them was right One of them wasn't right and it really came down to some specifics on how the trials were done but more importantly Uh, the message to every [00:20:00] crew is that, hey, our products perform and others don't.

Ahraz: And, you know, we as a retail organization have the economic prowess to make the best recommendations, et cetera, et cetera. So our crop plan, agronomic warranty effectively underwrites the Plans that retailers and manufacturers of products and service providers and really people that are providing advice as well are able to leverage to back their promises with an actual financial number.

Ahraz: So say for farmer. buys a product that promises a five bushel advantage and they don't see any yield advantage, if anything, they lose yields. Well, we'll protect them against those yield losses. And obviously when you're trying some new products out, which again, every farmer in the U. S. at least tries something new or the other every single year, having some level of added assurance helps.

Ahraz: Now our warranty, uh, the prescription warranty also applies to sustainability where as a farmer who's reducing say fertilizer. On the farm [00:21:00] levels, they're really stressed about how much yields would they lose? Because it's not a linear curve, right? You know, there is a point of diminishing returns. And our goal with our partners really has been around finding that diminishing return point, right?

Ahraz: The optimal point where they get the highest ROI. And the warranty empowers the farmers to make those bold decisions. Knowing that if, you know, all the advisors and themselves end up making A decision that is suboptimal that they have some sort of protection. Now, why it is an insurance is because everybody doesn't get it.

Ahraz: It's not covering extreme weather circumstances, which is where the governmental and other private policies come into play. What we're effectively covering is the top line risk with farmers that buy into a recommendation, be sustainability or something else, uh, be it one that comes through. Uh, input manufacturers, say a fertilizer company, a seed company or anybody else in between.

Ahraz: Uh, right now we've seen a lot of biological companies emerging that are excited about being able to take our warranty product to the market to [00:22:00] drive a whole new business segment, uh, as well as, uh, Retailers, of course, and advisors to farmers like consultants around crops or agronomists making recommendations.

Ahraz: So in a nutshell, the warranty helps build trust around products, practices, and services at a farm level, where we do have statistical significance that we can prove up front. The difference being instead of us trying or retailers and others trying to prove that those statistical facts, every single farmer, they can just give us the evidence, we'll endorse it.

Ahraz: And now. The warranty can be pushed behind everything and farmers have minimal financial risk as a consequence of that.

Mehmet: Fantastic. You know, um, one of the things that, you know, really it's, uh, exciting also is, you know, about how also, like I'm asking you maybe a little bit from a product, uh, perspective or as a leader of, of, uh, the product development [00:23:00] yourself.

Mehmet: Um, So how do you think this is a little bit complicated because here like the stakeholders are You have multiple stakeholders, right? So because you're doing something that intersect of course technology farming and finance which is fintech part So you have to talk to I don't know like your stakeholders are multiple here.

Mehmet: So, you know, how do you Tailor, I would say the messaging for each one of these stakeholders Um to make sure that first you know, we are able to get exactly, you know, what are like their pain points. And so you put this into the road map of the, of the services and the products you're building at the same time.

Mehmet: Also, you know, tailoring the message, for example, if you develop something or you had an idea, so to, to, to convey it to them. So, and I'm asking you this from a, your position as, as the, as the head of the product, as the VP of the product here, [00:24:00] uh, Aras,

Ahraz: Yeah, absolutely. That's a, that's a really great question.

Ahraz: And, you know, just, just, just for context, a cropland warranty, for example, uh, helps, uh, farmers, retailers, input manufacturers. We have service providers like companies that help go out on the farm and spray things. Uh, we have a food companies, grain companies, all that work with us as well as some, uh, government, uh, public and private institutions that are trying to drive sustainability among others.

Ahraz: So we do have a huge. Array of, uh, kind of partners, uh, that, that we work with. And it really comes back to, I think step one for us has always been. Finding, uh, value propositions, right. Or what I like to call unit economics, because at the end of the day, if there isn't a way for everybody to win, it will not be a sustainable product offering program in the marketplace.

Ahraz: Right. So we want to structure things in a way where say we're working with the retailers, the retailers have a way to win and farmers have a way to win as well as us, because obviously we are taking the risk on, [00:25:00] we don't want to be in a spot where, you know, uh, Things financially don't look good for us.

Ahraz: Like it has to be financially beneficial to all involved and definitely in the highest sense to the farmers who are effectively the beneficiary of the customers that we are so obsessed with serving. And that's our purpose, really, to help the growth, be more bold and confident. Anything and everything that's asked of them.

Ahraz: So, uh, really it comes back to, you know, step one, unit economics of things, uh, the go to market plans and concepts. We have a lot of concepts, Mehmet, I can tell you that we validate, uh, as our director of product management will tell you that fail only, validate things cheap, uh, take things to market before we build stuff, uh, building is always complex and tools and, complex processes.

Ahraz: And so for us, it's really been about, Hey, let's build a concept real quick. See if the stakeholders understand the value proposition clearly, not just for themselves, but for the counterparts. Cause you know, they all talk, uh, the agriculture industry [00:26:00] often is huge, but, but small enough, right? Everybody's able to connect to each other.

Ahraz: Like a food company will be talking to a farmer. A grain elevator is going to be talking to a retailer, like, you know, there's all connections. And as long as we can communicate the value add to each of those layers, it becomes an easy conversation to get a lot of early feedback on, yep, this might work.

Ahraz: And more often than not, we start with piloting something then, uh, taking it to market at a very small scale. Without obviously the comprehensive end to end processes and technology in place And as soon as we get some validation and a better understanding of the pain points That becomes a great place to evaluate if it is worth iterating or totally pivoting away from in different ways.

Ahraz: So uh messaging again You know, uh, comes back to being able to communicate the value at specifically when somebody is paying and somebody is, you know, participating and having to do the work on what is in it for them. Even when I talk, for example, ag retailers, uh, those are, you know, the dealers, seed dealers, you know, in, you know, sellers [00:27:00] of fertilizer, et cetera, et cetera.

Ahraz: Even they have hierarchies, right? With the corporate leadership might understand the value, but the sales force and effectively wants to just sell and move on. Right. They don't want. We are explaining value out of the warranty, et cetera, et cetera. So it really comes back to how do we make sure, uh, at a high level, there is unit economics, there's value add to everybody.

Ahraz: And then all the way down to making sure we have the exact right touch points at each level of the user journey, the customer journey, the partner journeys. And yeah, the easier we can make it. The more transparent we can make it. I think that's, that's been the key for us to see success.

Mehmet: Absolutely. And talk, talk, you know, continuing on, on, on this point also ra like, um, I'm very interested also to, to understand like from this again, because we talk about intersection of, of two things, actually three, like our agriculture, FinTech, I mean, and, and AI and all [00:28:00] this.

Mehmet: So from, uh. Let's call it the inclusion of the smallholder farmers, right? So what kind of challenges and opportunities you see? uh, in bridging, you know, this gap, uh, between the smallholder farmers, um, you know, I'm talking about financial gaps mainly through, through the solutions. I mean, that, that you have developed.

Ahraz: Oh, I'm so happy Mehmet you brought this up because that is A very personal passion of mine. Uh, there's so many farmers across the planet. Uh, you know, interestingly, most of the acres and most of the land belongs to a few farmers. Most majority of the farmers, like in the U S I believe something like 85 percent of all farmers are considered small holder farmers.

Ahraz: Uh, smallholder farmers are defined as farmers making below a specific threshold in revenue. or farming below a specific threshold of acres. And it really varies geography to geography, you know, across the planet, but smallholder [00:29:00] farmers are more often than not underserved for a variety of reasons. There might be a lack of digital financial literacy.

Ahraz: There might be, uh, the lack of availability of resources. Obviously, if I'm a salesperson, I want to be focusing my time and effort on the highest Value customers, not, you know, the lower value customers, which are the smaller farmers, more often than not. And so where really, I think FinTech has the biggest purpose is with the smallholder farmers, where we eliminate the need of, uh, human intervention on little decisions, uh, in the US, where, say, the average farm is for 500 acres.

Ahraz: Nobody wants to serve the 50 or 100 acre farm. That's a massively underserved category and demanding that any. Human advisor, uh, actually serve them becomes tedious because you know, it's going to be a Huge volume low value and you know, you're just going to tire yourself out Uh, so that's really where the value of technology comes in because we can use technology to [00:30:00] solve these farmers bring them better prices Bring them better financial tools, right better interest rates because all of a sudden now our expenses go down because we don't have enough humans In the loop, etc, etc.

Ahraz: Now that said i'm not claiming that technology can eliminate the need for You Human experts and advisors. I think that's the key role, but I think, uh, the way our chief marketing officer puts it like humans, when you really need them and technology, when you don't, and I think that's the path that we believe in and, you know, there are all these back office tasks, which we can offload from other human advisors.

Ahraz: So, you know, from the farmers to, you know, uh, as such today, for example, if a farmer, a smaller farmer has a bad ear and cannot afford to pay for Pay back their loans. It's a tedious process to file paperwork, uh, you know, to apply for forgiveness or to see how they can defer payments for a while. Well, technology, you can click a button and as long as we can validate that, yes, you were in a geography with certain perils around weather [00:31:00] events or just poor commodity prices for whatever reason, we can easily extend those things from a more technical perspective.

Ahraz: The enabled standpoint. So it's not just digitizing the manual processes that helps smaller farmers, but also finding the right financial instruments that really, really works for them to cost. Otherwise they'll end up paying high interest rates, for example, and having the worst customer service ever because they're really not your biggest customers.

Mehmet: Right. And I think, you know, one of the benefits, you know, and correct me if I'm wrong also as well, because, um, I used to live in, you know, in, in places where, like, you know, the farmers really put the, uh, as they say, the blood, sweat and tears, you know, and then sometimes if they lose, they say, okay, you know what, like, This is not for us.

Mehmet: We're gonna do something else, right? And then they move on and So what you're telling do you see it? Do you see it as a way? Also, maybe of [00:32:00] course you're now talking about the US because it's the market you operate in but I'm doing on a global level Like do you see? Solutions like the ones you have developed being able to contribute in the global food security as well because first You know, of course we talked about like choosing the right crop and all this stuff and you know what I should be Uh doing this year as a farmer from the second perspective, which is okay.

Mehmet: I'm i'm covered also as well so and this is maybe I don't know if maybe it's also a a a passion or maybe a drive for you and you know, the Your colleagues to you know, let the farmer stay in their land, you know Do you see this something like that also as well?

Ahraz: Absolutely, Mehmet. I can't tell you how connected the farmers are to the land.

Ahraz: That's that's probably one of the biggest reasons anybody chooses to stay in the farming business [00:33:00] is that their connection with the land. Oftentimes that goes generations back right within the family. So there is so so much, uh, to tie farmers to it. I'll give you an example of something that, you know, recent advancements in India.

Ahraz: Where we have you know from india, we have a lot a lot of smallholder farmers, right? Literally pouring blood sweat like and then again i'm not going to claim that It's just india where the blood and sweat is it's everywhere like even in the u. s but We have what I would say massively small scale farmers right farmers that literally early morning the dad Uh the mom and the kids are just gonna go walk over to the fields and start doing stuff with their hands pretty much Uh, because they can't afford equipments etc And then india is the country which didn't have a lot of Proper insurance mechanisms for farmers, specifically when I'm a farmer, I don't have the money like, you know, and I'm just living it month to month or, you know, fairly short term crops.

Ahraz: Uh, I'm likely not going to get insurance among other things, right? Partly because I don't understand how it works partly because it needs me to sign papers and I don't know how [00:34:00] to do that. And partly because the, the. Sellers of insurance, right? The agents aren't readily available. It's not till they show up that I'm going to sign up for it kind of deal.

Ahraz: India did pivot to parametric insurance. They're one of the biggest parametric insurance companies, and which has been phenomenal because instead of complicating things, they went the simpler route, which is, Hey, if in this, in this month, if you're growing this crop, because we know this is going to be critical two months for the said crop, uh, if it floods or if it's, Really less in terms of moisture.

Ahraz: Uh, you get a flat payout X dollars because we're not hurting your crop. So they eliminated a lot of the administrative overheads and made it super simple for any farmer with literally a cell phone or access to somebody with a cell phone to just go get it. And in my book, like that is a great way of serving smallholder farmers because you eliminated a ton of barriers, barriers around having a business registered, barriers around having a permanent address, barriers around having to pick and choose things and, and prove things and so on.

Ahraz: So it becomes a whole lot easier. And I think [00:35:00] things like that across the globe, we see, right? We, we see a ton of great innovation here in the U S where, The governments are giving more and more money to people that want to get into farming. Now, here's a fact. The number of farmers on the planet has gone down and it continues drastically every single decade.

Ahraz: And partly because farms have become bigger. The average farm is much bigger now than ever before, which isn't the worst thing, you know, because diversification is always a good idea. But the worst part is that so many people choose to leave farming and not enough people want to get into farming because of all these nuances.

Ahraz: And I think that's That's where a lot of the government supported programs as well as a lot of these private programs like, you know, insurance is among others, uh, really, really come into play and have a huge value add in helping give new farmers, small farmers, farmers who are just, uh, Trying to transition the farms over to the next generations, among others, you know, the right mechanisms, both from a security standpoint, but also from a financial standpoint to go do that.

Ahraz: [00:36:00] And then, obviously, I won't discount the value of literacy. A lot of farmers still don't. know across the planet, the value add of all the little things that go into a farm on how to quantify those things and really think of it from an ROI perspective.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Um, what are, you know, and this is maybe a traditional question, but I like to ask, especially for expert people like yourself, what are like some of the emerging technologies that you see it fit with this agri agri FinTech, if I want to call it this way, uh, that you are most excited about?

Ahraz: The one thing I personally am really excited about and this is the data side of, uh, my, my role token is more dynamic pricing. I feel pricing in agriculture across the planet is a black box today. You know, farmers don't really understand what something should cost, what it costs to them, what it costs to somebody else.

Ahraz: Not everybody gets [00:37:00] a flat. price on the same product. So the same product might cost differently to different farmers, depending on how you obtain it, how you source it, where you get it from, how much of it you get it from, how early are you committing to that, because supply chain nuances are a big deal in ag.

Ahraz: And, and your Timing of making your decisions, your choices, all those things can affect, uh, prices and so on all the way from, for physical products to let's say buying land, like you and I, for the same piece of land, likely are going to pay different prices, maybe because I value it. And, and, you know, uh, oftentimes, you know, using some, some personal factors as well that might play into it.

Ahraz: And then of course it's the financing pricing interest rates. And so I feel dynamic pricing perhaps is the single most. amazing thing that can happen to AG where, uh, pricing is transparent. So when I say dynamic, I'm talking about it being transparent and then it being, uh, exactly what you pay for something is what it should be worth pretty much to you, right?

Ahraz: For example, from a risk standpoint today, most [00:38:00] farmers are paying similar prices for insurance yet, you know, the risk levels might not exactly be the same, uh, and, and so on. Now I realized there is a, There's no answer on value based pricing as well. Why should you pay more for something, uh, because it's worth more to you or versus me, et cetera, et cetera.

Ahraz: And that's what I think it comes down to the right choices. And that's the second thing I'm really excited about is the placement of products on a field level. So advisors, pretty much, uh, robot advisors, AI advisors telling you here's a commodity to plant. And here's a couple of things you need to make sure you do to maximize your ROI.

Ahraz: And guess what? When that does happen, we'll be ready with our warranty, uh, to back it up too. So as to provide a lot more confidence in any, any prescriptions that come out, uh, into the world of ag. Obviously, I'm not going to discount remote sensing, drones. driving tractors, et cetera, et cetera, all are going to play a big, big role as well as more app driven delivery of things as well.

Ahraz: So, [00:39:00] uh, farmers across the planet in remote places with just maybe hopefully access to a mobile phone, or maybe a computer can access information at the very least and ideally products and finance.

Mehmet: You know, when you mentioning this, you know, it's something like, I just imagine it, I'm not sure if it's possible or no, because when you said, you know, about this dynamic pricing, because, you know, for example, we discussed before, uh, how retailers and, you know, e commerce, because at the end of the day, there's a suppliers in the middle, I can understand this, but I'm imagining this, you know, central system where, you know, because we, the farmers know the demand, right?

Mehmet: So so and they can do kind of forecasting. Okay, at this time of the year, and I'm sure like the technology will allow us also to change when we can plant what somehow, right? So so instead of having also the waste That usually happens. [00:40:00] So we have like kind of a balanced, uh, what, how you call it, like, uh, uh, demand, uh, forecasting.

Mehmet: So we don't have wastage. We don't have like lack of, of that also as well. So, you know, like it's kind of the perfect world. Like I'm really exciting. Um, you know, it's really exciting to, to, to, to see the future from now. And, you know, amazing, you know, advancement in that space. Um, uh, as like, you know, Really the the time, you know flew Literally with you.

Mehmet: Um, if you want to you know, have like final thoughts, uh for today with for the audience And where people can get in touch with you.

Ahraz: Yeah. Uh, thank you. My time did indeed fly. This was this was Real fun conversation. Absolutely. Hopefully our listeners find it valuable as well. Uh, the final thoughts I would have really is, you know, agriculture is amazing, as amazing as any other sector you can think about.

Ahraz: If anything, I would say it's a lot more complicated because weather plays a much [00:41:00] bigger role in everything agriculture, even more than You know, transportation, uh, because transportation might delay your trip by two days, but two days of bad weather can totally throw your work off for a farmer. So, you know, I would say a little more compassion, empathy for anybody farming around us, but people just go along the way.

Ahraz: And I know people have that. I implore everybody to ask more questions. I implore everybody to really understand where. Really, the food is coming from, it doesn't come from a grocery store, it comes from farmers working hard. And any chance you get to engage and interact with rural communities, with farmers, to learn more about things forest land, it's always going to be an enriching experience.

Ahraz: I highly recommend people taking up on that. The fact that there is so much, so many technologies in play in ag and so much opportunity yet to innovate and drive new things. Uh, that's another area for all our technology and business listeners to, to think about and, and, and feel excited about ad tech as a sector has obviously been [00:42:00] interesting.

Ahraz: We've seen more IOT driven, uh, innovation than, than most others. But I feel there's a lot more to come in ag and we'll definitely see highly optimized markets, Mehmet, as you said it. Uh, in the future, and that's really tying things together, right? It's ag, the food industries, as well as the consumer markets all coming together and driving things better for generally a better planet, a better future for all, including farmers and consumers.

Ahraz: So yeah, I'm excited as you, as much as you are for the future. And I believe it's going to be a good one. Where to find you Aras, if someone wants

Mehmet: to connect?

Ahraz: Absolutely. Uh, you can find Aras Hussain is my name. Luckily, there's not a lot of Aras Hussains out there, so it shouldn't be hard to find. Uh, you can also reach me on my email, uh, aras.

Ahraz: hussain at crowdsedge.

Mehmet: com. Great. So people, they don't have to You know, search a lot. Can I, 'cause I'm gonna put the link in the show notes. So if you are listening, uh, on your favorite podcasting app, you can find, you know, the [00:43:00] link that Ara just mentioned. I mean, on the link, uh, he's linking the profile in the show notes.

Mehmet: Or if you're watching this, you can find on YouTube Ara Really, I enjoyed the conversation. As I said at the beginning, this is the first time we discuss. Tech but also there's a Spice of fintech in the in the play also as well, which is fantastic and i'm always um, you know biased about things that Have impact and definitely the field you are in has a great impact.

Mehmet: I always you know, tell my family You know, my one of my dream is to when I want to retire So it's not I don't call it retirement But I mean living in a farm and being a farmer because when I was kid, uh, I knew You You know, the space and, uh, it's, it's something really, we should not, uh, lose it as humans.

Mehmet: And I advise everyone, at least if you can, you know, visit a farm and see the farmers one day, and then relate that to the technology and what I had has discussed with us today. And then you will understand, you know, the impact. So thank you [00:44:00] again, Alice, for the time. I really appreciate it. And this is for the audience.

Mehmet: So if you, Are new to this podcast you just discovered us by luck. Thank you for passing by I hope you enjoyed it If you did, so please give us a thumb up subscribe share it with your friends and colleagues And if you are one of the people who keeps coming back, thank you for doing so I really appreciate all your encouragement.

Mehmet: I really appreciate all what you do to keep this podcast going and To keep us getting in the top 100 ranks in different countries. So thank you very much for this And as I say always thank you very much for tuning in. We'll meet again very soon. Thank you. Bye. Bye