#436 Building the Cities of Tomorrow: Lawrence Eta on Digital Infrastructure and AI

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Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO show with Mehmet. Today I'm very pleased joining me, Lawrence Eta, who's a thought leader in digital transformation and smart cities. Lawrence, thank you very much for being here with me today. It's a pleasure and [00:01:00] honor for me to have you. So as I was telling you before we started the recording, the way I love to do it is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves, give us a little bit more about, you know, your journey, your background, and then we can start the conversation from there.

Mehmet: So the floor is yours.

Lawrence: Thank you so much for the opportunity and to be with your audience is great to be here. My name is Lawrence Eta. I'm a global digital transformation thought leader, the former chief technology officer in the city of Toronto, and now based in Saudi Arabia, where I'm leading digital transformation, smart cities, data, the planning and the governing and the.

Lawrence: Digital enterprise architecture of one of the mega projects in the region. So my journey has been lived in born in Nigeria, moved to the UK at a very early age and then Canada and the US and finally, um, into here, Saudi Arabia. [00:02:00] So I've lived in a number of countries and a number of cities and glad to be here to share and have this conversation with you.

Mehmet: Great. And thank you again for being here with me. So, you know, um, I think this topic when I used to do kind of a, uh, uh, solo episodes, I used to talk about it, but it's, you know, now good to have you with us today, Lawrence, because You know, smart cities and, you know, the digital infrastructure is something which I think it's, uh, it's been on the rise and it's a continuous journey.

Mehmet: So how, you know, managing digital transformation on a large scale can be different than any traditional, I would say, in any other sector when we talk about transformation and how also, you know, having I would say the the proper vision and leadership skills that [00:03:00] you have Was instrumental in achieving all the results that you had in your career.

Lawrence: Oh, thank you for that question I think one of the things with digital is that it's not sometimes the physical assets you can see like a road a building construction But it does contribute in enabling that and now that the world is so critical in terms of technology Whether it's artificial intelligence or any other technology we have in the past Power of our phones, our smartphones, it has become now a very dominant aspects.

Lawrence: And when it comes to cities, it's usually a part in the past that people would think after, but now it has to be part of the conversation. No different as building a strategy of how are you going to build a city from this, from, from the start, or how are you going to regenerate a city? It has to have infrastructure.

Lawrence: And the way I see it is that if you were building a house today, you would have an [00:04:00] architect that starts off in designing the house before you start moving furniture into the room. So I'm giving an analogy to make it, um, simple in that respect. So with digital, you have to be able to build the.

Lawrence: Architectural infrastructure, which starts in the telecommunications in terms of whether you're bringing 5G, um, or telecommunications, you'll bring in fiber, you'll bring in the towers that will provide you this aspects. Then you have another layer that starts to build. With what is the applications that are going to be served on that?

Lawrence: How is that information from a city lens going to have centralized information, which is the next step of data, bringing all the data together and then utilizing various products, technology tools to serve, um, the community. And at the heart of that. The aspects of the digital architecture and infrastructure is about serving the personas off that city, whether it's the [00:05:00] tourists, the visitors, the investors, the residents, the citizens.

Lawrence: So it's building that architectural blueprint and when cities are developed, certainly when you're looking at cities that we. Uh, you could call those cities, uh, brownfield cities, cities that have already been well established. Um, that principle of that digital infrastructure, digital architecture was not what was started on, but in aspects in the Middle East and in aspects in areas whereby in the East, where new cities are being built and actually also in Africa, where you're looking at.

Lawrence: The development of some of these new cities being created, um, you have an opportunity to really build a strategy from that strategy within that strategy, the vision, the mission, the ability to build essentially that infrastructure and then to set a governing body, how you. And at the heart of that is the human as the heart of that is the actual personas of the people.

Lawrence: So it's become a very, I [00:06:00] think it's a, it's a, it's an industry now that needs to be well thought off. And the more we share on conversations like this, we, more we have thought leaders, the more we write about this, we recognize this is a discipline as opposed to something that just happens because there isn't a adequate.

Lawrence: planning, but it needs to be planned. It needs to be budgeted. It needs to be governed. There is a methodology to achieve in that. And that's essentially what I've been involved in for, for various different years.

Mehmet: Great. Now we know also like, um, in any digital, uh, project, you know, on any side is, uh, you know, where the data and the importance of the data to be, uh, you know, taking care of.

Mehmet: And. You talk about, like, also data driven cities. So here, of course, someone might tell me, yeah, but Mehmet, like, it's not only the smart cities that they are highly regulated, and, you know, there's the [00:07:00] privacy concern. But here we're talking about everyone, right? Like, maybe in healthcare we have, like, Subset of the population.

Mehmet: So how can cities effectively balance, you know, leveraging the data for innovation while ensuring, you know, the privacy and ethical use at the same time?

Lawrence: Yeah, that's every city in every jurisdiction has regulations that comply with. Privacy and security. And that is also very important. Um, so the regulations that's looking at the privacy laws, the regulations that is looking at to ensure that you're having anonymized data data that is not identifying individuals based on privacy is part of developing a smart city or in other words, an intelligent city, a data driven city.

Lawrence: The word smartest. Generally focus on technology, but you're trying to ensure the city is catering to the individuals and in certain cities and cities all across the [00:08:00] world. There's open data. It's it's been a standard whereby it takes away from the prior from from ensuring that the privacy is being compromised by making sure the data that is being released for innovation for new economic

Lawrence: development is data that don't identify Essentially cause any issues in terms of the privacy so we can share data. We can share economic data. We can share in terms of movements of visitors or people so that innovators can take that data that is that is not private. And start to build models, you know, if I want to develop the next hotel, if I want to ensure that I'm building the street sign, how is that?

Lawrence: And one aspect that you're really seeing that is when you're developing aspects of cities called the digital twin, you're building a common data element, a common data environment. It's the environment where you're taking all the data, ensuring that it is providing information that the entrepreneurs can develop.

Lawrence: [00:09:00] So at the heart of building cities is cybersecurity. And within that. It also includes privacy. So every jurisdiction has its privacy, and cities must comply to that because without trust and confident from the residents in the community, then you, you are not building a city. You, you're just building technology for the sake of technology.

Lawrence: And at the end of the day, people need to feel trust and confidence, and there's principles and approaches, um, that you can do that, um, to make sure that the regulation is the first and foremost.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Now you talked about like, um, some basic frameworks and also kind of, uh, you know, the architecture, the digital architecture.

Mehmet: Now we are living in an era, Lawrence, where things are also moving very fast, right? So how, you know, we can combine You know, these critical components, whether like [00:10:00] it's under the frame walls or the architecture to make sure that also we are able first to adapt the emerging technologies. And I'm going to ask you about the eye in a moment.

Mehmet: And also, you know, like there are some of these initiatives that I think every government, you know, at least I know here in the region, in the Middle East region and of course in other parts of the world. So We're talking about sustainability. We're talking about, you know, ESGs and the other stuff. So this combination, or let's say these two aspects of innovating versus also making sure that, you know, we are able to, to keep within the criticality of, uh, you know, getting the sustainability and so on.

Mehmet: So how, how have you seen the best aspect? And you know, if you can explain also how the frameworks and the architecture plays a role into this.

Lawrence: Yeah. And the first thing you want to start off is what is the role of government? Uh, the role of the government is to regulate [00:11:00] and enable the environment for the private public sector, um, academic, uh, Prosperity of everybody collaborated.

Lawrence: So to do that, you can either call it guiding principles, um, environ, uh, digital infrastructure. So let me start first on an experience. I had in building the digital infrastructure strategic framework with colleagues. When I was in Toronto, it came across a certain guidelines of principles where the private sector.

Lawrence: So ensuring that, um, You could build things that at that time was equitable and inclusive in terms of how that was being shared. It was adopting social, economic and environment. It was privacy and security. Um, it was at that stage, democracy and transparency being there. So there are certain principles you as the government need to set a foundation for the cities and for the, for the, Industry in terms of how you were the principles that govern you and in various governments in various countries, there's certain ministries or [00:12:00] certain government entities that is driving some of those aspects, whether it's data, whether it's infrastructure.

Lawrence: So once you've got your principle and you're communicating your principles, it's transparent to what that is. And then subsequently from that, you are ensuring that, and I talk about this in, and I. Uh, in some of the areas that I mentioned where for me, I thought to myself, if you wanted to ensure that you scale you, there was a principles that I put together called the five S principles, which I talk about in my book, which we'll have further conversation later because the digital infrastructure is constantly changing.

Lawrence: The first thing you need is to ensure that you have a stable environment. People want stability. So that means is that the physical infrastructure and then putting the digital infrastructure on top the telecommunications, the fiber and those are stable. The next component it needs to scale. New cities are scaling with population.

Lawrence: Or [00:13:00] existing cities have to grow or they have to regenerate, as I mentioned. So the second S of that is ensure that there is scalability. The third S of the five S principles is ensuring the city is having solutions that are integrating. There's no. Point building, um, technology silos, data silos. It has to have an integration.

Lawrence: And now, with a lot of the tools in the cloud, software as a service, platform as a service, infrastructure as a service, you can build those application program interface APIs that allow you to have solutions that are integrated, billing systems that are integrated. All within that level of when you move to the fourth S, which is the security aspects.

Lawrence: And then the final S is the sustainability. So that five S principles ensures that you are continuously evolving in a virtual state where you build the physical infrastructure, you ensure the technology has an ability to scale, you ensure that [00:14:00] the technology is integrated, you ensure it's and if you create that cultural mindset and it's then governed.

Lawrence: It's governed appropriately. So you create governing bodies, advisory boards, and you ensure that governing body is reaching and ensuring it's linked with your principles. It's linked with your architecture. It's linked with the infrastructure, and you have great leadership in terms of technology, leadership, digital leadership, data leadership, planning and governance leadership, and that is then aligned to your budget.

Lawrence: Then you have an ecosystem ecosystem. supported by the private sector, the public sector and academia that is contributing. So the first thing is that what is the role of government? It's to regulate the environment and it's to enable the environment. And once you create those examples I've given, then you can transition, mature, grow, evolve as new technologies come into it.

Mehmet: Great, Lawrence. [00:15:00] Um, So now I'm going to come to the part that I think everyone is is wondering about. So to me, you know, as someone who watched how things evolved. So first we get, you know, the mobile technology and connectivity and the three G's, four G's and so on. And then we get, you know, the next layer, which is the IOT, which was important for for smart cities.

Mehmet: And, you know, you know, I would say digital organization. Now, of course, comes to the AI and the AI, everyone knows like it relies on the data. So from your point of view, like what are like some of the most exciting, you know, innovation that either you started to see, or you, you expect to see, you know, on the long run.

Mehmet: Because smart cities, and to your point, like you talked about the open data also as well, because governments collected data, and you know, we have these sensors and, you know, everything around. So, so [00:16:00] where are we heading within the AI and the, you know, the wave that AI is making now when it comes to the smart cities?

Lawrence: I think that's what we have to look at is that is the differentiation between invention and innovation. A. I. Has been around a long time, but what has been innovative about the A. I. Is the use cases that have been used and specifically in generative A. I. So a lot of repetitive task. If you look at even in the private sector, banking, Um, you look at autumn automation, you even look at transportation.

Lawrence: A. I. Is taking away, which will adopt the cities, the repetitive task and what that then ensures is that the much more strategic in intelligent tasks, we are being fed information that is coming at real time. So I think that it's the innovation. No longer do I now need to, um, if I have a good central, it used to be called the data warehouse.

Lawrence: It's now. A single source of truth. [00:17:00] If I have a good areas where I'm getting data from all aspects of the city, and it's coming through the I. O. T. You mentioned in terms of the Internet of things or the industrial Internet of things, I'm creating that single source of truth that I can now say, Hey, I tell me not just the analysis of my common common my Current demographics, but also give me a prediction about how I need to develop the roads going forward.

Lawrence: So that is innovation because I has been around. So when I look at now, the ability to predict cities are the closest heartbeats to the people. There is no other level of government that is that close to the people. So if I can now predict based on population growth or population decline or areas of infrastructure that need to be replaced and a I can say we've crunched all the data.

Lawrence: Whether it's using machine learning, we've crunched it. And here is [00:18:00] where the information will say you should invest. Those countries that have the taxpaying dollars are being investors. You could have that. So you are certainly going to have the drones. You're going to have the generative AIs, the chatbots, the various different use cases.

Lawrence: That is great, but it's what are you doing with the data and how is the data making the lives more intelligent? So when I look at the technologies out there, It's, it's always going to constantly evolve, but what is the technology producing? Let me give a perfect example. I travel, I travel quite a bit. One of the things that I really like about airports, and I'm really focused because the airport is the entry point to any country, which gives you the entry point to a city.

Lawrence: You get into the country and then you're in the city. One of the best areas is looking at how quickly can I cross the border? Because the quicker I can cross the border means that the quicker I can have socially start to integrate, socialize, economically contribute. So [00:19:00] biometrics is a great example. The government has all the data on me anyway.

Lawrence: They have all the data. As soon as I cross the traditionally, they'll scan my passport. They have that. But if I can now use a I to say Lawrence has already had preclearance. He has the right clearance. He has the right visas. He has the right ability to enter this country. Do I really need a human in the front of now checking there so I can use my biometrics, scan my retina, and I do it in certain airports I've crossed in minutes.

Lawrence: That is an example of AI bringing a good service because I want to cross quickly, pick up my bags and move along into the city. So the more you incorporate biometrics. Easy, you know, as soon as I get off from the source of the country, I've already pre cleared, I don't need to wait in line. I can just go into fast movements.

Lawrence: So the technology based on the centralization of data and without all the centralizing of data, there is no aspect of the [00:20:00] technology. So that's an example where I've really seen the growth of AI in a lot of airports that are using biometrics to create. Good user customer experience to ensure that traveler can cross over quickly.

Lawrence: And then from there, if I come out of the airport and there is my app that says, okay, Lawrence, we've person, we have a personal view of the data from you, from the things you're interested of what you filled out. Ahead of the trip, you could say the taxis are on in this location, the Ubers are on that location.

Lawrence: An autonomous vehicle can come to you, pick it, pick you up, take you on your ride. So that's where AI is really helping us build that personal viewpoint, whether it's through chatbots, whether it's to robotics, autonomous vehicles to allow you to have ease of crossing, ease of movements, the ability to have a good experience.

Mehmet: You know, like, you know, this is this is [00:21:00] music to my ears, you know, because I liked when you mentioned that the airport is the, you know, the first thing that anyone who is visiting a country would see and, you know, the seamless experience, because I see a lot of people and, you know, now, majority of the country, especially I'm talking about GCC here and Middle East, you know, they have this infrastructure that gives this good first impression, whether when they enter or that they leave, which is you.

Mehmet: Fantastic and fascinating. Now you mentioned something a couple of minutes ago, which, you know, attracted, uh, my attention. So because you were talking about how building this, you know, Of course, the government regulates and the private sectors comes in. But you also mentioned something about fostering the environment for, you know, entrepreneurs and, you know, like for innovation.

Mehmet: So if we want to talk about maybe our local experience here in the Middle East, you know, how much have you seen, you know, [00:22:00] this was successful? In really fostering, you know, an environment where people comes and start to innovate here. I'm sure like you have in mind, you know, some examples that you can give us about how, uh, how, you know, this aspect can help to get more, uh, more startups, more entrepreneurs to start their own ventures also as well.

Lawrence: Yeah, the heart of most economies, a small, medium sized businesses, as you knows, all those, um, SMEs, a small sort of medium enterprises. And what the government I've seen here is have very clear regulations. So therefore there is the, uh, certain ministries focus on data and artificial intelligence that set in those guidelines.

Lawrence: policies. Um, here there's a digital government authority that's set in the way that each of the government entities need to transform in their organization, the architecture, the requirements. There's the Ministry of [00:23:00] Communication and Information Technology that's really driving here in Saudi Arabia in terms off the digital economy.

Lawrence: And with that, you then get Inputs. So there is new laws being passed, new areas to attract new ways of attracting investors. And so once the government then says we, we have the feedback, what is going to make it attractive for you to invest? What are the common components? And then that opportunity happens.

Lawrence: So. One of the aspects is that if we're building a centralized platform as a single source of truth in one of the areas I'm walking on, if we can get economic data that shows, um, who is moving to the region, where are the businesses being formed? We put that at an open data platform. You then attract investors to say, I can now come and maybe I will use experimentation based on security.

Lawrence: To test out business models, right? Maybe it's a small city side, small population, but I know [00:24:00] now I can get that central area to test my business model. So that's a very attractive. If you then look at saying that if I have all that data, I want to attract investments and that investment means that people will experiment, they will run research and development.

Lawrence: So I think because government in the middle East is driving the transformation. It is being driven by government. Government can set those regulations, get the feedback from those entities, whether it's the private sector, it's the academic, and also attract the talent to come and test the environment here.

Lawrence: So I'm seeing that a lot more in this part of the world, in the Middle East, because the government is driving it. They can make decisions very quickly. It's based on a monarchy system that can push and what the, what that then. It creates the private sector. So being here in Saudi Arabia, there are lots of investment.

Lawrence: We see it with Vision 2030. People are coming here. Businesses are coming [00:25:00] here because there is a viewpoint that the government is creating the right levers, the right environment, the right regulations to attract their investment. To build new cities to regenerate cities, to build new airports, to build new establishment.

Lawrence: And once you do that, that is the role of government in enabling that. So I've seen it. And if, as we know, in Riyadh, Riyadh has just launched one of the largest in terms of. Um, rail system, uh, from an autonomous standpoint, just launched a few months ago, uh, took a period of years, but it's been quite fast.

Lawrence: That does not happen if government is not at the center of attracting that investment to say that we will do that. So I think being in this part of the world, I have seen it at a much, much faster accelerated rate than I've seen it in other parts of the world where I have lived, uh, specifically in North America.

Mehmet: Absolutely. And, uh, again, to your point, like data is the [00:26:00] center of everything. And, you know, one of the things which, uh, I'm sure they are working on it. I'm excited, which is you touched on. So, because now we we're collecting also data about the, the small medium businesses. So I imagined the government would have something either here, like they are doing it in a couple of the countries here in the Middle East.

Mehmet: So where if I am someone. Want to launch a business. So before actually I lost the business, I would have all the insights to make sure that, you know, my business model would work or not. First, how much competition do I have? The market size and all these things. So it would save the time and actually it makes the business more success to your point.

Mehmet: And I think, yeah, there is no better time. Uh, and I hear it from a lot of friends, like from all over the world. That's. The fast movement that we are seeing here is like noncomparable. And again, Lawrence, you mentioned this here on the show today. So a great point. Now, I see behind in on the, [00:27:00] uh, in the background, your book, uh, Bridging Walls, A Journey of Technology Leadership and Public Service.

Mehmet: So first question, Lawrence, what was the motive of writing the book?

Lawrence: Well, firstly, I've always thought to myself, if I was a young Lawrence starting today, and I wanted to be in the technology industry, the digital industry, where would I go? That has a book that not only gives an experience from a global leader, but also gives lessons learned.

Lawrence: So it really motivates me to want to tell my story. And the story comes from how does somebody who looks in terms of like me from a diverse background, get to the ability to become the chief technology officer. of the fourth largest city in North America and in this place, Toronto. So it was the start of a memoir.

Lawrence: I wanted to tell my story and then part of the book says, well, here are some of the lessons I learned on change management, building digital infrastructure, a lot of the regulations we've talked about, some areas of [00:28:00] policy we need to sort of evolve and to be able to have that blueprint for the next generation in terms of guidance.

Lawrence: So. The journey of the book started, uh, collaborating, getting the stories. And when I was the chief technology officer of the city of Toronto, it was around the pandemic, so a lot of lessons learned and the ability to see how things, even in a democratic system can move fast. Although forced on an emergency and so my experience, my journey or all came together in writing this book about leadership, also about diversity in terms of diversity, equity, inclusion, bringing also women in tech, people of diverse backgrounds to ensure that the quality of decision making and ideas isn't segregating within one domain or one group under your Integrate in all different cultures to produce the best results for the citizens of residence.

Mehmet: [00:29:00] Great. So, and if you want like little bit to dive, so it's about leadership and, you know, I'm trying, of course, I would, I would not like, uh, let you tell us everything about the book, but I mean, If, if you want to little bit give us a teaser about, you know, the main leadership, uh, you know, because you, you mentioned something very much resonated with me also as well.

Mehmet: Like it's like an advice to your maybe younger self kind of, right? So. Like what are like, I would say on highlights of the major leadership skills that you know, you think that everyone who would be in a position where you will be like a public servant from technology perspective, you know, if you can give us these highlights.

Lawrence: Yeah. And firstly, for me, it starts with credibility. Um, one of the reasons when I started my career is that I want it to be technical enough to understand technology to ensure that when I'm in the meetings in a leadership [00:30:00] positions, I have credibility and trust, so we don't spend a lot of time going into the deep aspects of technology.

Lawrence: We can make decisions. So decision making is very important. Another aspects of methodologies I'm very big on as leadership is the racy. Ensuring that you are driving action, who's responsible, who's accountable, who's consulted and informed. Um, so the book also speaks to leadership is ensuring that you check your ego.

Lawrence: It's not about you. It's about the people you are also trying to serve. You're a public servant. Your role is to serve. So therefore, that serving, that servant leadership also includes the people around you. The team you're leading, ensuring that you are enabling them. You are not the bottleneck to ensure decisions are being made and the culture and environment is stated on focus of growth going forward and learning from that.

Lawrence: Also ensuring [00:31:00] that I'm a big, big supporter of ensuring that there is diverse and women in technology, often in certain areas. So the book talks about the way I went and recruited. Um, my deputy chief technology officers in Toronto were women. Um, the majority were women. I wanted to ensure that women leadership, they brought a level of empathy.

Lawrence: Compassion ability to look through there. And another part of leadership is that when we had these sort of emergency areas of disaster areas that I formed a roundtable in the area of technology services division that I was part of, you title does not. Always ensure that you are the leader. You could be in junior titles, middle titles, senior Lido.

Lawrence: It's your behavior. It's your ability to make decisions, to have compassion, to analyze the data, to have instinct, to ensure that you create a cultural methodology. So when [00:32:00] I mentioned that I had those five S's, I had a division of almost 800 people. People knew the guiding principles of how we made decisions from the top to the bottom.

Lawrence: So your job as a leader is creating that environment, having good technology, understanding helped. One of the reasons I also did, uh, an executive masters of business. Um, administration is that when you're in tech, you're dealing with capital expenditure, you're dealing with operational expense. So knowing money, knowing accounting and finance, the difference is important, having a group understanding of economics in terms of that.

Lawrence: And in this world right now, it's having the geopolitical context. So another methodology that I really found in the principles is the pest. The politics, the economic, the social, the technology. So a great mentor when I was in North America really helped me sort of shape that you need, it's like a toolbox.

Lawrence: I have different sets of tools, different methodologies, different aspects [00:33:00] to bring into different meetings at the certain times, and that's what. It ensures that you can lead and in a time of huge transformation change, you are using all those tools in many meetings. So that's just a synopsis of some of my leadership lessons in a very quick way to share with your audience.

Mehmet: It's fantastic, Lawrence. And, uh, you know, I got to ask you a quick question. Um, because based on what you said, which I'm a big believer in, I don't like us call it the IT department anymore, information technology. And I am aiming and pushing people to call it the technology and innovation. I don't know, like find a word other than IT because IT is an underserved, do you agree with me Lawrence?

Lawrence: 100 percent and let me give you an example. I was a Deputy Chief Technology Officer in the City of Toronto from 2017 to 2019. When I became the CTO, which was the first time we converted [00:34:00] the title from CIO, Chief Information Officer, to Chief Technology Officer, to send a message that the head of the fourth largest government in North America was going to be coming from a technology background.

Lawrence: I come from a technology background. I've built infrastructure. build there. But I changed the name from Information Technology Department in Toronto to Technology Services Division. And the reason I wanted technology was exactly why you said, because we're not just I. T. It's not just the enterprise. It's important, but it's not the only aspects.

Lawrence: We're dealing with telecommunications. We're dealing with data we're dealing with. So technology was a way to Cover that. Now you would have digital, you could be the chief digital officer. Um, and, but also as well as it, I wanted service in the name. So to this day, the division in Toronto, it may change, but it's still called TSD.

Lawrence: Technology. We're here to serve you the services to the divisions or to the clients [00:35:00] or to the public. And so for me, I a hundred percent. And when I even came to the middle East, that name. In the current team that I lead, there is no IT in the name. It is technology. It is planning and governance. It is smart county, smart city.

Lawrence: It is data, data management, business intelligence, data transformation. It is digital enterprise architecture. I formed a group and then I brought in ICT, which is the, you know, Telecommunications aspects. So to me, the name I T is a legacy name. It is now about technology and serving that. So I'm 100 percent agreed, and I have practiced it by actually adopting it in 2019 of changing the name, and that sets the culture with and it sets the tone with essentially.

Lawrence: And one thing I want to finish on in terms of this conversation in terms of what you've mentioned. for having me. [00:36:00] Technology leaders, digital leaders are just as important in city management as city planners, as transportation leaders, as Leaders who are doing, who are the head of water or sanitation in there.

Lawrence: I want to elevate and part of my mission is to elevate that if the technology leader is not in the middle of divining, defining, strategizing a city. Even in the private sector, it is not an afterthought. So if you keep the name IT, information technology, you're not going to be on the seat of the table.

Lawrence: But if you elevate it to technology or digital or you there, words matter to get you the respect in terms of then you bring the capability. So What I do also challenge all of us as technology leaders is that we need to know money, we need to know finance, we need to know accounting, we need to know economics, we need to have social [00:37:00] ability to converse, communicate.

Lawrence: It is the one position in our society. Now that you need all the skills, you don't need to be an expert in anything specific, but you need to be able to bring people around the table because you are. Creating the ecosystem to facilitate the movement. So that is the reason why I wanted the name changed and I 100 percent agree with you.

Mehmet: And I think I can say what you mentioned, Lawrence, that not only people who are in the leadership positions, I am encouraging, you know, especially the younger generation. Like who started their career. They said, yeah, I'm the techie guy. I'm the nerd. I said, yeah, okay I know I I was in your place, you know a few years back But I advise you to learn about the business and understand whatever your position is is in the organization I mean, understand what's your, you know, the mission and vision of your organization.

Mehmet: So then you can translate that into the technology that you work on, which is, you know, and, uh, maybe it's [00:38:00] like a cliche now, but I'm big believer that, uh, actually every company now is a technology company and this is why. Everyone of us needs to understand to your point. And I love this, understand money, understand, you know, all the aspects of the business sales marketing, you don't need to be expert to your point, but yeah, like understand.

Mehmet: So actually you can serve them better. And you know, this is resonate to the way how you name the technology department into the city of Toronto. So this is fascinating. So Lawrence, like if, if you want to, You know, and thank you for mentioning the continuous education as well. This is this is great So if you want to leave us today You know with kind of a call to action and this is for all of us, but mainly let's focus on technology leaders.

Mehmet: So What you hope, you know, the audience will, will take with them today. And what's your call to action, uh, from you to them?

Lawrence: Leadership is a set, it's a [00:39:00] set of building blocks. So you're not necessarily always born as a great leader. There's some people who have that in terms of, they just have natural, but if you walk on steps every day, you will build good leadership skills.

Lawrence: But the center of that comes from empathy, having empathy and recognizing you're there to serve. Your community and that word community can be defined. The next component is that have a domain expertise. So within the technology area, have something that you, whether it's an infrastructure software application, something that you could have as an expertise, so that you build trust and credibility inside the technology area you're serving.

Lawrence: Also, as well as that recognize that you are a change agent. You're there to build bridges. You know, you're building bridges. And one of the things I talk about in my book that I wanted it calling bridging world, I've lived in five countries. You're always a bridger. [00:40:00] And once you understand the people dynamics, we all want to ensure that we feed our families.

Lawrence: We create a good economic, social opportunities. Those skill sets will transcend domain expertise, serving people. Good leadership skills, surrounding yourself with people who have deep expertise in other areas that complements you, then you will be very successful. And if people really want to get more, they can look at amazon.

Lawrence: com. You can order my book there. It's called Bridging World. Follow me on LinkedIn. I have a newsletter that published in that respect. Check out my website of lawrenceeta.Com. So I hope that's conveyed some of the takeaways of my journey.

Mehmet: Absolutely, Lawrence. And thank you for mentioning all this because usually I ask this question at the end, but you mentioned this, you know, which is where people can find more about you and your work.

Mehmet: So thank you for that. And I will make the people's lives easy so they don't have to go [00:41:00] and, you know, type. So all the links will be in the show notes if you're listening on your favorite podcasting platform and on the description in the YouTube if you're watching this on YouTube. Lawrence, I really enjoyed the discussion like this is a really easy.

Mehmet: You know, a blend off two main things, which are important for us, which is our digital lives shaped by digital cities and leadership. And, you know, your experience and you bring a blend off, you know, living between five countries and, you know, leading major cities and, you know, all the experience that you brought also to our region.

Mehmet: So thank you very much for being here with me today. I really appreciate it, and I know how busy it can get. So again, thank you very much for being here with me today. And this is for my audience. This is usually how I end as I said, all the links are in the show notes Uh, you can find them and you can reach out to me Also, if you have like further questions to lawrence, you can reach out to him Of course directly as well.

Mehmet: And if you just you know discover this [00:42:00] podcast. Thank you for Passing by. Thank you for actually making this podcast, the top 45, uh, in the, in the rank of 14, uh, in the business podcast here in the UE. So thank you very much for, for that and for your encouragement. And, uh, as I say, always stay tuned for a new episode very soon.

Mehmet: Thank you. Bye-bye.

Lawrence: Thank you.