#439 The Future of Digital Marketing: Merag Shahzad on AI, Strategy, and Growth

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Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to a new visit of the CTO show with Mehmet. Today I'm very pleased joining me, Merag Shahzad. Merag, thank you very much for being with me on the, on the podcast today. The way I love to do it is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves, tell us a little bit more [00:01:00] about you, your journey and what you're currently up to.

Mehmet: And then we can start discussion from there. Just, I would give a teaser to the audience. We're going to talk about everything, you know, Marketing, digital marketing and branding, social media. So Merag, the floor is yours.

Merag: Thanks for having me Mehmet. I'm very keen to tell your audience what we know and what's currently going on in the digital marketing space, but also in the AI marketing, AI tech industry.

Merag: And I don't know when you're going to publish it, but just a couple of days ago, DeepSeek published its. R1 reasoning AI, and that totally vanished nearly 1 trillion from the U. S. market because everything is so fast paced, like it's. It's the second job of people in the tech and marketing industry [00:02:00] right now to really try out any kind of new feature without implementing it immediately in the, in the, their own company.

Merag: So this is the big challenge we have right now that we need to do our everyday business, try out everything, but not be too excited because something else might come up. So it's very challenging right now.

Mehmet: Absolutely. So, uh, the audience knows the transparency I usually have. So we're recording, you know, on 29th of Jan, probably you are watching or listening to this.

Mehmet: It was released on, uh, second week of February. So not that far. And as Merag mentioned, like the beginning of the weeks of 27th of Jan, we had the Crash in the stock market because of deep seek so you can relate and I'm sure you know By the time this is out people would be still speaking about that now It's it's a very interesting space to talk about mirage with you, especially about digital marketing and what's going on um You know [00:03:00] around you know with with with all what's happening and what we must mention so Let's start asking you directly because we mentioned ai mirage AI is doing revolution everywhere.

Mehmet: So in marketing and digital marketing, what in your opinion is like the biggest impact that you have seen and what else are we going to see in the near future?

Merag: Yes, since we are a full service digital agency, we are helping to find the right strategy. Doesn't matter if it's a personal brand, a content creator or business brand.

Merag: And what revolutionized our everyday life was a little earlier than chat. GPT introduction to the public. It was already Jasper AI. I don't know if people are aware of it. It was already released two, three years before chat GPT that helped us generate. Blog articles based on the most common [00:04:00] IDA system or PAS system.

Merag: What is very common to build landing pages, blog articles, et cetera. And we used it once it was introduced immediately. And the other thing we, we played around with was, is Synthesia because we wanted to have personalized presentations of the offer everyone at that time was using. And if they were very, uh, very curious, they had introduced, um, Loom videos and we tried out Synthesia.

Merag: It was more a play out of curiosity. And since ChatGBT, the world is going crazy because it can be both. You can't overuse AI. Let's face it, there are companies who overuse it and it's not really effective anymore and not efficient. And then there are so many [00:05:00] companies who lag behind and still have so many hours of human resources wasted that could be done in a couple, in only a couple of minutes by AI and.

Merag: It's not only in marketing sphere, but I, I am aware of it, that AI had most of the most impact on marketing industry, because it is a fast paced industry. You need to have good content consistently, fast, and this deliverable was either you have a lot of money. Or you are a small startup with a lot of free time to do that.

Merag: And now also busy medium sized companies can be part of that game because of AI. Merag, you

Mehmet: mentioned something and you know, I didn't prepare for this question, honestly. You touch on something interesting. You said some people use it [00:06:00] too much. Some people, they are behind. So when, when too much is too much, let me ask you this.

Merag: This is if you are one of the first agencies or first people using the AI and try immediately to implement it in your everyday business. I'm German. I'm born and raised here in Germany and my management style is a mix of Chinese and German. Don't ask me why Chinese, but it's a Chinese and German way of thinking.

Merag: And the German side is of course stronger because I'm raised, uh, born and raised here and we are always. Uh, skeptic towards big changes and new introductions. Yes. I'm in the digital marketing sphere, so I need to try out new things, but I need to be skeptic. Is it really bringing in better quality to my clients?

Merag: And as an agency, I am not serving only [00:07:00] to my clients. I'm serving their clients as well. In our agency, we are also have that common phrase, clients, clients first, because first the consumers are bringing in money to our clients and then they pay us, right? So we always ask, is that tool, first of all, how much do we need to invest?

Merag: Not only money, but you need to be aware of it because many of those subscriptions are killing agencies right now. So first of all, how much money do you need to invest in that AI? And secondly, how much time do you need to invest in it to play around with it? Then play around with it, do it maybe as an agency owner or as a businessman, you need to do it in your free time, not in your business time.

Merag: And then last but not least, are the outcomes only. Is it a toy for you because you are a curious businessman or is it really helping some of your bottleneck employees [00:08:00] or is it bringing in consistent good quality to your clients? And people forget asking this. So they like Sora AI, let's face it. If you're trying to, if you're spending two hours every day.

Merag: Creating videos on Sora AI. Let's face it. The quality is not good enough to sell this as a agency work to your client.

Mehmet: You know, like, uh, again, it triggered a lot of things in my mind, uh, when I was now and, uh, like, see, here's also my question. So. With these tools, I believe as an agency, you would also advise your clients like which tool fits what, right?

Mehmet: But there must be like something which is they must have and something, you know, which is customized to different use cases. So because you mentioned Sora, you mentioned a couple of other things, um, So which tools you believe really, you know, like they are the must haves [00:09:00] and which ones like you see, you know, they are like niche for, let's say, maybe people who are more interested in doing thought leadership stuff, maybe something which is related to demand generation.

Mehmet: So what the categorization you see, uh, you know, and of course, from your interaction with your clients,

Merag: what every user of the internet. Whoever has a smartphone should have at least those three AIs, if it's affordable, uh, please have ChatGPT, the, the 30 euro or 30 version. Second have a Claude subscription.

Merag: Claude is amazing. If you want to have. A human touch blog article, LinkedIn posts. It's really awesome. And third perplexity, in my opinion, if you want to search the internet, especially in times of where [00:10:00] everyone is creating fake data, fake, uh, fake news. You need to have a proper system that is not politically in one or the other direction and perplexity finds out every piece of information in the right nuance, like more scientifically, not politically biased.

Merag: So you should have those three. It doesn't matter if you're a businessman or an employee or a highly, uh, highly skilled, uh, employee, these three things. Uh, must have also already, if you want to reason about a few things, uh, I don't write anything note, uh, on, on paper anymore, if I am in the meeting, I try to keep everything in mind.

Merag: And once I leave the client, then in my car, while commuting, I'm talking with chat GPT because I tell him, I will tell [00:11:00] you now everything from that meeting in an unordered way, then please order it. You already know how it works. So please give me for my project management tool, the right staff, the right, uh, priority, and then it's done.

Merag: And then I send it to my project manager. Cool. Super cool. Now also

Mehmet: one thing, uh, one

Merag: other thing about ChachaBT, uh, Do you use it also in your personal life? It's not a business thing to use AI. It's also making you as a human being more efficient. Like my wife sends me a list of groceries. We need milk.

Merag: We need this, this, this before I was a stupid because, uh, you know, if you're working in it and marketing, you usually become like a list person and top priorities top. So it was like, get milk, get banana, get yogurt, then back. So I was walking from one aisle to another and back and forth [00:12:00] wasting time because my mind was so full of work.

Merag: I couldn't be efficient anymore when doing grocery shopping. Now I make a screenshot. Put it into ChatGPT when I go from my cart and enter the store and just this short time, I make the screenshot, send it to ChatGPT and tell it I'm going to this kind of grocery store and give me the list in the order.

Merag: off the aisle from start to end. That's it.

Mehmet: It's like, uh, if you think about it from business perspective, it's kind of also optimization for the business processes also as well. Right. So yes. And when it comes of course to digital marketing, I believe there's a lot of, uh, you know, benefits of doing this way.

Mehmet: Now, one of the things Merag, which I started to see, you know, like you remember, and maybe this is a marketing meme also as well. If you remember when, you know, everyone started to adopt the cloud, there's this famous meme of, uh, you know, the old man [00:13:00] yelling at the cloud thing. So now we are seeing kind of people who are complaining.

Mehmet: Sometimes I don't complain, but sometimes I get like also irritated by, for example, people exaggerating, you know, the use of AI in a sense, for example, the comment, if you post something on LinkedIn, You see the comment, it's, it's very obvious it was generated by AI, like also, you know, when they post something, a post, whether it's on LinkedIn or like any other, uh, social media platform.

Mehmet: Now don't get me wrong people. I use AI, you know, I, I want you to first to, to clarify this. And then I'm going to share, maybe I shared before, but I can re share again, how I use AI when I post, but from your perspective, Merag. Like how we can keep the authenticity and you know, like how we can let people also, you know, still get engaged even if we use these AI tools.

Merag: This is also, uh, [00:14:00] one way how AI is overused is that people are forgetting it needs the human touch. You can't just simply give a prompt and tell it, Hey, write me an article about, let's say about car insurance. It will generate a dull article that has no further anecdote, no further, uh, real life experience, no value at all.

Merag: So to make it really part of your experience, it needs to extend your experience. That means it still needs an initial thought process of yourself. You need to tell, Hey, uh, I had this kind of client, she had a car accident. Usually others, uh, insurances would handle it that way, [00:15:00] but because we have implemented this in this, uh, tech or process, it helped her to, uh, yeah, helped her and we found their true reason why this car accident happened.

Merag: This is a personal anecdote and AI can't make it up because it was something from your life, from your experiences, and this is the way how people connect with you, right? So don't, don't just prompt it to, uh, generically. Generic prompts deliver generic, uh, outcome and you need to be fully aware of it. In my agency, we have a very strict rule.

Merag: It is first outline everything yourself. You may use like perplexity to find out if you, uh, data and sources whatsoever, but anecdotal is the way to go because this is how people will remember your story and your value, et cetera, uh, write it down and then feed AI with it. [00:16:00] And by the end, you can go back and forth with the AI, but in the end, you still need to give it your human touch to it.

Mehmet: Now, it's not different from, you know, what I do. Um, so I gotta give, you know, and correct me, Merag, you are the expert. I'm not the expert, but I mean, when, when it comes to, to especially being outside. So myself, I'm not a native English speaker, right? So I'm half Turkish, half Lebanese living in Dubai. Right.

Mehmet: So, so English is not my, it's not my, my first language. It's not my native language. So, but for me, when I go out in front of people and I don't hide this so I can make mistakes, but you know, when you have a tool that can sharpen, you know, my, you know, language, let's call it this way. Why not? Right. So if you remember, if people remember, it's like, you know, the first.

Mehmet: the time when Microsoft Word appears and had the spelling correction thing. It's amazing because you don't need to write [00:17:00] something wrong. So it's nice. So the first thing I do with AI, so I have my idea, what I want to talk about. So I write it. And then the first thing I tell, you know, I, I write to chat GPT, proofread it, just proofread it.

Mehmet: Right. And then the next, you know, think I write. Or like I prompt as I ask chat gpt. Okay. Do you think it's clear enough? Do you think like the way I I put it and then it say okay For clarity, I suggest you do this this this right? So always always always Uh is like I I put this now i'm gonna give you a I give the audience another trick and i'm sure you know it mirage So because now i've been using chat gpt for almost two years now, it more or less knows my style, right?

Mehmet: So sometimes You know, I, I have the idea, but I cannot write it. So I just. Tell chat gpt the highlight and I say Draft it into my style and then actually it does it in my [00:18:00] style to your point mirage And this is all my ai experts that came to the show and just you know, you mentioned it Actually, it's if you put garbage in you're gonna get garbage out you put something good.

Mehmet: It's gonna get something good now Moving a little bit away from mirage and you've been doing the you know The the marketing and digital marketing and brand building for quite some times Um I want to ask you from a holistic perspective, let's call it this way. And you know, my show covers a lot about startups and small medium businesses and people in tech who are in this space.

Mehmet: So why they should consider marketing as a horsepower for them to grow their business. Why marketing is so important because I believe maybe you would agree or disagree. I will leave that to you, Merag. Sometimes people, they underestimate the power of [00:19:00] marketing. So feel free, you know, to, to, as much as you want to, to tell us more about the importance from a holistic perspective.

Merag: May I jump to the point before because this is Very important to me, people and also the society seem to have a shorter memory. That becomes more and more dangerous and we become more of a kind of a junkie to the industry more and more. We become senseless consumers. The older generation listening to this episode will remember how the internet was in the early two thousands.

Merag: 2000 to 2005, six, before Facebook entered the place. It was a wild West of ideas of different theories, different content. Uh, you could nearly [00:20:00] watch every kind of video topic. It was. So wild west and open, then it got more and more commoditized by the big tech industry and more consolidated. Many things of that era disappeared or is not part of the mainstream society anymore.

Merag: We all now know Airbnb. When I was a student, uh, 15 years ago, it was a thing to couch surf. But couchsurfing wasn't a community making money out of it, right? It was just hitting up, hey, I'm going to Dublin. Uh, I want to see the city and I want to crash on a couch of someone who's living there. This was actually the free kind of internet thinking at that time of era.

Merag: Many things that were cheap for free, like Skype, things [00:21:00] disappear and we need to be aware of it. So whenever some new tech came in on the internet, my dad laughed at me and said, Look, you wasted so much time on learning a new language. Because, uh, I was very open to learn new cultures, languages, uh, script, uh, uh, writings like, uh, I know the Latin, because of German and English.

Merag: I know the, uh, Greek and Cyrillic script writing. And also Chinese, Korean, uh, Katana, uh, Hiragana, uh, and so whenever it came up, my dad said, look, you, you learned Mandarin for no reason. Now, uh, AI or tech can translate everything for you. You don't need a translator anymore, but my mind. My memory is working way differently because I did learn those [00:22:00] things and we can't rely on AI as you mentioned.

Merag: And now there are so many people who have used chatGBT for two years, and I will be very frank with you and your listeners. Some of them didn't really get smarter by using AI. They got more lazy. The basic reasoning in their head is not happening anymore without the interaction of AI, and we now have seen ChatGPT raising the prices from 20 bucks to 300 right now, I think 300, right?

Merag: And yeah, and now it's 200. And they are still complaining and saying, Hey, we, uh, we are losing money every month. That means it might raise the prices even more and not everyone can afford it anymore. But now you got stupid because you're not, uh, you, for every kind of thing, thought process, you have been using chat GPT.

Merag: Now [00:23:00] you're a junkie of that company. Uh, I, I use that example of currently a very often, it's like GPS navigation system. People are so used to use the cheap GPS navigation system in their car. They can't get from A to B. Some people I know in my family can't even find their house without GPS anymore in their home city.

Merag: Right. This is dangerous.

Mehmet: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So back to, to the holistic approach of the marketing, Viraj.

Merag: Yes. It's very important to have a holistic approach and especially digital marketing, but also marketing as a whole, because people aren't buying your product. If they are buying your product, you're going to lose to the cheapest competitor.

Merag: [00:24:00] Because the production lines are also more and more consolidated in the end. We know there are only two, three semi conductor producers and they aren't more of it. The difference in the pricing is most commonly the brand and maybe also the UI. So you as a business person. As a, uh, as a C level executive, you need to put a lot of emphasis in this, get some form of distinguishing to the competition.

Merag: The best way is the story. How are people connecting with your brand, with your product? And this needs to be in the center of your holistic approach. Uh, Simon Sinek said it in a TED talk, I think already 12 years ago. It was very early of the TED talk era. Trent, he said, start with why. Uh, it is a [00:25:00] very simple, uh, system that is the minimum you should implement in your business.

Merag: So start with why from Simon Sinek, if I may, uh, sum it up very quickly is many people are selling the what, but the what is the outer space? And no one, uh, feels connected with you, the producer, the brand, or, uh, your company, the sales person, um, on the, how you might find people like, hey. Uh, I, I have a hole on the wall.

Merag: Yeah. You need this kind of tool. Okay. Uh, I, I got ffr. I learned from you how I ha can solve it, so I gotta buy it from you. But this is a short term trigger for most of the consumers. The best way is the why, because then they are not even asking anymore if the product is really a, a form or a help. Most commonly people say Apple is the best example for this and they did it correctly.

Merag: How much [00:26:00] emphasis did Steve Jobs put into the whole storytelling, marketing, positioning also towards the mainstream that, uh, we are. We are also more creative, that's why we have different fonts from day one, not like the Microsoft users. Uh, so it is the whole story, the whole narrative, and of course, the value you have set for your company.

Merag: Uh, oh, and let's be frank. I also know many companies, they haven't never, they have never, They have never created an elevator pitch for themselves. They have never defined what the values are of their business. So first steps, uh, are these, and then really define, uh, what, how, why build a story around it and now be consistent.

Merag: In every form of communication to the outside world about it. [00:27:00] Absolutely.

Mehmet: And the example you gave, actually, I was about to ask you next, like, uh, Which brand do you think like they mastered and you answered Apple, of course. And, uh, to me

Merag: Nike. Nike is a good example. How you can, uh, uh, I wanted to curse this.

Merag: Sorry. How you can destroy a brand. Nike is a very good example because It was since the beginning of Phil Knight. It was not about Hey, you can do better running with those shoes. You can do better, uh, walking, jogging, because I think he started with jogging, if I remember correctly. And it was always about the lifestyle, freeing up you as an upcoming or already athlete.

Merag: It gives you its mindset and the whole commercial of Nike was similar to Apple. It was never about the product itself. It was never about, uh, the price. It was [00:28:00] most commonly about the lifestyle, the feeling, the connection between the consumers and Nike is just to get started, right? Right. So it's a message, the message.

Merag: And now since the new CEO, it came into the game who put everything, all the much budget of the marketing nearly solely into, um, into, uh, performance marketing. He didn't invest enough into the brand and branding and connecting messages with the audience. They lost value

Merag: because there is a young generation who doesn't, doesn't feel the same way with Nike anymore because they haven't been played, uh, on, uh, Nike didn't play enough videos about their core values to that generation anymore. It was solely performance and [00:29:00] influencer marketing. And that is not good because we all know influencers are changing the brand they are wearing for a buck more.

Merag: This

Mehmet: is very interesting now, Merag, and by the way, um, we're seeing this not only for B2C brands, we're seeing even this for B2B brands. So, influencers and the Gen Zs, you know, are part of the game, you know, and the creator's economy now, it looks like the mainstream. First, let me ask you, is this now You know, the, the norm, uh, which is like, for example, as an agency, I'm sure also you advise your customers on this and platforms are changing by the day.

Mehmet: So the, let me divide it and make it easy. So I, let's make it as a conversation. So let me start. Is it the norm now? Because I don't want to overwhelm you with the questions. So is it the norm now to go with the kind of influencers, whether [00:30:00] it's a B2C brand or B2B brand, is this the case?

Merag: You don't have necessarily an advantage anymore if you are putting a lot of effort into your personal brand.

Merag: It's in my opinion, already a necessity in some form or the other, you as a founder, you as a business owner, or at least you as a business owner need to find someone in your company who use, who gives you the permission to use his face as the personal brand part. You definitely, definitely need this because you can see it on LinkedIn.

Merag: How many posts do you still see off businesses and how many do you see, uh, personal brands off the businesses? Yeah. Yeah. More, more, more of the second, right? Way more, way more. And the content style also totally changed. The content style is mostly left only with a face, some selfies, some group [00:31:00] photos, anecdotes, personal stories, background stories, and so it's first about connecting, so first it's about the why, then the how, then the what.

Merag: The same as Apple just put into the modern way of. Of the, what the algorithm wants from us. The algorithm tells us, uh, the internet action interaction rate is important. So, and the fastest and cheapest way is definitely a personal branding. And the second, the second, uh, version is I don't like it so much, but it's very effective, uh, being very polarizing.

Merag: Okay.

Mehmet: Now you are triggering a lot of questions in my mind, Merag. And this is across by the way, guys, like this is, if you are a startup, you are like a small business, doesn't matter. Even you are a person as you, as Merag mentioned. Now what's. Uh, fulfilling the algorithm, right? [00:32:00] So back to the point of authenticity.

Mehmet: Now, don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. People don't get me wrong. You know, when I start to see in my feed, kind of the same pose, right? People taking selfie. So I feel like we're kind of becoming a robot and becoming, you know, don't again, I don't want to curse and I'm trying to find the light word for this.

Mehmet: We can, we can becoming robots ourselves, fulfilling the order of the algorithm, which I don't like much now, but I understand at the same time from business perspective and to get them, you know, the results you need to fulfill with this again. What is, what is the balance, the right balance here?

Merag: This is a very good question.

Merag: This is also the main part of what we get paid for. We as an agency, we are paid for building a strategy that is highly customized to the business. [00:33:00] And of course, some of the KPIs are how many views did we get? How many conversions did we get in our first and foremost, most important KPI is definitely how much money did we get for our client?

Merag: That can be differently. The first version is go full volume. You need millions of clicks in the month so that at least 0. 5 percent of the people get converted or the other way is you could, and this is what I highly recommend to anybody starting is be a very niched person. In as a personal brand, because then only with 500 views on every video, it's enough.

Merag: If you post one video a day, you still have reached thousands of people, tens of thousands of people. [00:34:00] But since your topics were so niche, they're going to have that feeling. Oh, Mehmet is the only person who can solve me this problem because he's talking a whole month, the last 30 days, he was talking only about this one problem, this one solution I can't, I couldn't even consider someone else.

Merag: Right. Right. So these, these are the two, uh, versions and the, the best part of it is the second version doesn't make you depend on the algorithm. Mm-hmm. Because you are so niche down, you can just use the, your personality, find a content format series that is very close to what you like doing anyways.

Merag: What is close to your personality? Because we gonna, we always ask, uh, the companies we, we are working with, what kind of content do you like? Because, uh, if you're running a business, if you are a C level executive, you are already [00:35:00] working. I'm very sure about it. You don't need to tell me you definitely working 60, 70, 80 hours minimum every week.

Merag: Where do you find the time to produce the content for the personal brand? So it needs to be something that's not only serving the purpose of content, but also gives you energy. It needs to be something that gives you energy and motivate motivation because otherwise the consistency will lack after two months.

Merag: Maybe even after two weeks, you say, I can't do those short form videos anymore because it takes my energy, my time, et cetera. So is it, is it texting then write article, write post, uh, be a guest author. There are many opportunities. And if you like talking like most salespeople, then, uh, try to tell your story a little more condensed because most salespeople are talking too much.

Merag: Make it more condensed and be a podcast guest. Okay. Yeah. So this is,

Mehmet: uh, that's, that's really [00:36:00] reasonable. And I like this approach, Merag, because I believe, you know, what's more important. Exactly. So, so, and you mentioned that, and I know from myself, right? So I think I got to leave it to you to put the percentage.

Mehmet: That's large, I would say large amount, I mean, or large chunk of the success is consistency. Um, If this podcast exists now, it's because, you know, it came out of a passion. It came out of a kind of, I said, okay, I have this dream to be a podcast source. And by the way, I set the expectation slow. I set the bar low at the beginning and said, okay, but I got to keep doing it.

Mehmet: And you know what I said, if even have one. Listener, I get, I'm happy, you know, if I receive like one feedback, I'm happy and I kept doing it and it paid off. Right. Of course it didn't happen. It didn't happen overnight, but to your point, like this is kind of a proof to what you said. It's right. Of course I know.

Mehmet: And [00:37:00] people knows that it's consistency. And I think this is where your role comes also Mirage, because you can take this burden of, uh, of the clients who are, as you said, they are, Oh, I don't have time. You know, um, you know, I, I cannot commit to this and, but yeah, you are in safe hands, I think with, with, uh, your, some, I mean, agencies like yourself, am I

Merag: correct?

Merag: It's also a thing of how you define the right KPIs. You can't just copy paste the chat GPT answer to it because everything is highly individual and should be customized to your everyday life. Because when I thought the first time of, Hey, I would love to start a podcast. I like how, what Joe Rogan does, Joe Rogan has the opportunity to invite any person in the whole wide world and tell him, Hey, I would like to have you as a podcast guest.

Merag: And then the person flies in to Austin, Texas and talks with him for three hours. [00:38:00] I thought, damn it, if I'm 60, 70 years old, this is a very nice business. This is a very nice business. It's, I get smarter. I can invite people that I like and I can have a conversation with. But now let's break it down strategically.

Merag: Joe Rogan is talented. First of all, the decision of who his guests are, very, very important because it's all the topics that he's very, uh, genuinely curious with. Or is well educated about the second thing is he's so trained he does it for a decade over a decade already. So he knows how to ask people how to put limits and boundaries to the guests because some of the guests are also.

Merag: Freaks and, and narcissists, et cetera. He knows that also, so he knows how to put the boundaries [00:39:00] and yet he also knows how to make that episode very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. He knows how to be genuine to himself and to his guests, but also to the algorithms.

Mehmet: Absolutely. I think I, you know, talk about Joe Rogan and of course, like maybe some people would say, okay, what's the relation CTO show tech startup was Joe Rogan.

Mehmet: So the thing is, to your point, Mirage, I think what he mastered also the flow, right? So he knows also how What I call in sales and even marketing perspective the customer journey, which is in this case the audience journey, right? So he knows how to set how to set the stage And if you see like the key moments and if you go and later on find when they happened Um, of course I had to learn this because when I decided to become a podcaster, you know I I need to to learn these things and then You know, [00:40:00] how to take the flow.

Mehmet: I mean, the customer journey, the audience journey, where to start and what, how to get them excited. What he does to your point very well, the moment you, he feels that, okay, things are going out of control. So he knows he's, he does his magic and he brings things back to order without, without actually letting his guests or The, the, the person with him knows about it.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Now,

Merag: and then, uh, sorry, uh, point about the KPIs. So I wanted to become Jerome, but how does it work out that in the future I could be Jerome. So first of all, built an authentic, genuine personality. You don't need to be 100 percent yourself because, uh, Jerome also mentioned that, uh, it's strange for him that people are so sure that they would know him.

Merag: It's only one part of his personality. It's not [00:41:00] 100 percent of his personality. So authenticity means that what you say is what you mean. Not that you show all your emotions to the whole wide world. You still need to be. Some, uh, you still need to have a control of your emotions. It's very important, uh, uh, uh, as a human society to have that.

Merag: But for the KPIs, I told myself I wouldn't start a podcast show myself unless I have learned from many others like you, uh, how you are dealing with people. So I would rather become a podcast guest two, three times a month. That's okay, that's a good procedure to get in, build consistency, because if I can be a guest three, four times a month, I could host a podcast show as well, four times a month, that's once a week, that's the minimum for a podcast show.

Merag: And last but not least, I have also put in another [00:42:00] KPI, that is, how am I improving my English, from episode to episode. So even if, uh, if those episodes where I'm a guest doesn't get any views for my Instagram, it doesn't matter to me because the first of all is, am I respecting the host? Do I bring in enough value to his audience?

Merag: And last but not least, did my English become better?

Mehmet: Um, let me tell you something, Merag, and, you know, I'm not sure if, uh, any other people, they have shared this from hosting perspective. To me, it's a school because every time I meet, uh, someone, right. I'm learning something new. Like I'm learning something new from you now, as, as we speak like real time.

Mehmet: And every episode I did, and I gonna do in the future. So I gonna learn from someone, from his or her experience. So really, you know, [00:43:00] and when, when you, uh, you know, accumulate this over time, um, you know, it's, it's, it's amazing. And I can tell you also if someone is thinking about, uh, starting a podcast, other than the KPIs that Raj just mentioned, um, so what you get is.

Mehmet: The experience of talking to different people from different culture is also about to have the kind of a confidence also to speak to larger audience. And most importantly, like, you know, at least leaving something which is Useful to the, to the, to the audience, which is a hundred percent. Now, one topic also, which I want you to touch on Merag is, um, from platforms perspective and you, from what you are seeing in the market, right?

Mehmet: So which, which platform is for what? And because also we see this discussions a lot, Hey, don't come here. This is not [00:44:00] Instagram. Hey, don't come here. This is meant to be on LinkedIn. Why are you bringing it to X? And vice versa, right? Um, so what's or are you seeing now a convergence where actually all the platforms are more or less becoming the same?

Mehmet: And it doesn't matter if you are a brand, you actually have to be everywhere. So what's your take on this?

Merag: I fully understand those discussions, but I can't understand why many people make it so complicated. One of the reasons why they make it, making it so complicated is in my opinion, we have too many coach sellers.

Merag: Everyone wants to sell a course. So they need to, uh, make up some stories why they have the hack for you that works out. And those kinds of discussions go by row, right? But the true thing is. In my agencies, we have defined it with. Three C's later, we have added the [00:45:00] four C's and the fourth one is the answer to your question is if you want to build some, uh, consistent content format successfully on social media, you need to have first content, content needs to be very close with the person or with the company's values.

Merag: And it needs to have some form of value, entertaining or information. Uh, second is consistency. Consistency is definitely, as you've mentioned, the most important thing because, uh, shorter or later, you're going to be successful because you're going to learn from your mistakes. If you're not the, one of the most stupid people in the world, you will find it.

Merag: Maybe it takes one year, maybe it takes six years. It doesn't matter. Then, uh, the third thing is community. You can't just. Just upload something it's I, I, I have read it's 500 hours of content uploaded to YouTube every minute. So how do you want to pop out of [00:46:00] those, this mess of content that is uploaded?

Merag: So, uh, be a social person like outside. Talk with other accounts in your niche, talk with accounts outside of your niche. It's even easier to talk with people outside of your niche because the things you, you might consider as an expert that is boring is already very interesting and valuable to people outside of the industry.

Merag: Uh, so this community and the last thing is. Respect the culture. Yes. It's not only the algorithm that needs to be served on each platform. It's also the different culture. TikTok is raw. It doesn't matter how many points Instagram is going to copy of the algorithm of TikTok. TikTok still has a more mature base on it.

Merag: It still has this, uh, high gloss [00:47:00] culture on it. You can't just move it because otherwise your core Instagram score audience going to leave. And this is already a huge distinguishing. So even it would be the same algorithm Instagram and TikTok. TikTok is raw because it comes from, uh, the youth. It comes from sub genres and Instagram was built very quickly as part of the mass media.

Merag: And high gloss, uh, you, you can, uh, definitely understand it if you pick, uh, pick out the most common faces, the Kardashians are Instagram and the Kaby Lame, the, uh, uh, what are the dancers? I forgot. So they, the raw format is part of the culture. So look, take a look at it and, uh, take a chance on each of those platforms, but check out what [00:48:00] is definitely working way better with your personality and take it wherever you want to be seen.

Merag: Yes. At the beginning, I always tell my clients, let's figure it out. What kind of personality you are, let's try out this kind of format. And if, uh, depending on the format and the cultures of each platform, we're going to advise the client, uh, these three platforms, the 100 percent approved by us, because your, how you speak is perfectly matching to these three, uh, platforms, but let's also try out these two platforms because.

Merag: You like to be very aesthetically set up, uh, your, your content format needs to be aesthetically pleasing. Maybe it works out on Pinterest as well because people gonna pin it because the competition is so low on, on, uh, Pinterest. Uh, when it comes down to videos, it might work out. Right,

Mehmet: right. Absolutely true.

Mehmet: And, uh, and thank you for bringing [00:49:00] the cultural nuances, uh, mirage to the. To the, you know, to the discussion because I think it's something underrated as well. So Yeah, so we need we need to understand also This to your point and I like the way you describe it So it's like you have to try you never know if you don't try and then you you you insisted which i'm happy About the kpi.

Mehmet: So, you know, how are we going to measure the success? So 100 on this now As we are wrapping up mirage final thoughts And where people, they can

Merag: get in touch with you. Uh, thanks Mehmet for this opportunity. Uh, it was a very nice discussion. Uh, once I started my own podcast show, I will definitely have you as a guest.

Merag: Because I watched several episodes and they were really interesting. And I also, uh, I love to watch the first episode of the shows that are going to be a guest of. And the last one. [00:50:00] Because I love to see, uh, how people Yeah, evolved through the time because this will help me that, yeah, once I started my own show, I need 100 episodes.

Merag: So yeah, I'm active on all platforms. Uh, that means you can find me anywhere with my nickname that is I am Mirage, I double M E R A G, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok. Um, uh, nearly every, every second day I'm active on those platforms and I'm sharing all these insights. Also, the cultural thing is mentioned there because, uh, one of our clients had uploaded a video on TikTok.

Merag: Which is actually we think of this is the viral platform, but his content was aesthetically pleasing. It got only 5, 000 views on TikTok, but on Instagram, it had 1 million views. Oh, wow. So it could be also the other way around. We never know. We [00:51:00] never

Mehmet: know. Yeah, you never know. So absolutely. So it's, it's like kind of, this is where the consistency comes into the play, right?

Mehmet: So this is how you, you, you increase your chance. Now, uh, for the audience, you don't need to go and search. I will make your life much, much easier. All Merag's handles on social media, they will be available for you in the show notes. So if you are listening to this podcast on your favorite podcasting app, you will find them in the show notes.

Mehmet: If you are watching this on YouTube, you'll find them on description. And again, feel free to get in touch with Merag like, um, you know, he's a talent. When it comes to digital marketing and branding so highly advisable to To get in touch mirage again. Thank you very much, you know for for you know, this valuable discussion and This is now how I end usually all my episodes.

Mehmet: This is for the audience guys If [00:52:00] you just discovered this podcast by luck, thank you for passing by I really hope you enjoyed it and enjoyed the discussion today if you did so Please give us some up, subscribe, share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you are of one of the people who keep coming back and encouraging us big, big, big, big thank you.

Mehmet: Because in Jan 2025, we were honored to have the CTO show as one of the top 45 business podcast in Dubai. And we get on the rank 14, hopefully we're going to enhance this more and also for the first time ever, you helped us to be in the top 200 charts in four countries simultaneously, which is didn't happen in the previous two years of the show.

Mehmet: So thank you very, very, very much for your support and for encouragement. I really appreciate that. And as usual, I say, stay tuned. We're going to be again in a new episode very soon. Thank you. Bye [00:53:00] bye.