#451 Two Startup Games, One Entrepreneur: Allan Abbas on Playing to Win in Fintech

[00:00:00] 

Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet today. I'm very pleased joining me, my friend Alan Abbas from Dubai, right? Alan, you're in Dubai now. So the way I love to do it is I keep it to my [00:01:00] guests to introduce themselves. So tell us a little bit more about you, your journey, and what you're currently up to, and then we will start the discussion from there.

Mehmet: So the floor is yours. 

Allan: Sounds great. Thank you, Mehmet, for being on the show. And like you said, I am in Dubai. I'm actually born and raised here, but we're in the process of transitioning to Saudi, myself and my co-founder, uh, because we co-founded EmFelx, uh, a few months ago trying to make car financing in Saudi easier.

Allan: And to give you a bit about myself, since I was in high school, my passion, I was so astonished that I can make money. Giving things to people or what's known as selling, and I still can't believe that it works. So I love selling stuff. I love building systems. I spent most of my career at Amazon, uh, from operations, starting in the warehouses, picking and packing to leading teams, to launching warehouses, to managing supply chain of countries, [00:02:00] and then moving to product management, designing things, uh, internally for Amazon.

Allan: Uh, but my, my, uh, love is for building stuff and no matter how. While things get at Amazon, I always feel myself longing. Just quit and do, do something on my own. And that's where we are today 

Mehmet: and it's very great to have you here today, Alan, on, on the show. Um, one thing that stopped me, like, you know, you always had this, uh, let's call it the itch to go out and build things and give to people.

Mehmet: So now we decided to go in. In your current startup with something very different, right? So it's like, uh, um, something related to to FinTech, right? So why this rather than other? Than any other thing, because you know, I'm sure your experience with Amazon, [00:03:00] and I know like you had a startup before, also before, uh, which was in, in sports tourism.

Mehmet: So why this time you decide to pick? So I would like to call it or ask it in a way like, uh, what was the aha moment? Like, okay, we need to go and sort out this problem. 

Allan: No, great question. And you're right. I started by training. I'm a civil engineer, uh, by experience. I'm in operations and then program management and then product.

Allan: Um, but I've always done things that I love and the sports tourism company was simply because I love sport. I was watching it, I was helping people plan, uh, travel to the World Cup. And that's how the idea started. Like, why don't I just make a business out of it? Something similar happened in the last few years.

Allan: So, uh, after spending a few years at Amazon and, you know, getting what's supposed to be a great salary and then quitting and doing something, I [00:04:00] realized I have nothing left out of the great salary that I thought I had. That's when I learned financial management and the value of actually educating yourself.

Allan: Uh, so that started me going through the rabbit hole of. Learning about personal finance, investment stocks, all the things you would study in an MBA, I never got exposed to those things. And coming back to the region, uh, I think the aha moment was realizing that FinTech is currently less than 1% of the total banking market.

Allan: And in mature markets like Canada, the US, and the uk, it crosses 15%, sometimes as high as 18. So if nothing changes and the regular progress of technology continues, we're expecting a 15%, a 15 times increase in the FinTech space, and I think it's much more important to be in the right market. I. Uh, than to have, you know, the right [00:05:00] idea in a bad market or even worse shrinking market also.

Allan: I love it. I think technology is lovely. That's what I want to, to go deeper into it, and financial technology is even more fun. So right now I'm enjoying what I'm doing and I hope that continues. 

Mehmet: Perfect. One small comment, like, uh, probably people who would be listening or watching us and hearing that.

Mehmet: Both of us were based in the Middle East. They might say, Hey, but isn't, um, you know, the FinTech space very, uh, saturated over there because, you know, if, if you look at any, uh. Report or any, you know, study. I, I did that a lot also myself, right? So want to see like the top, uh, startups by sector and always FinTech comes number one.

Mehmet: So is you, you just mentioned that we touched a very small percentage of that, but. [00:06:00] How do you think, you know, like this sector is, is moving in, in our region and especially from consumer's perspective, uh, what are like some of the factors that you think also are encouraging? Both the consumers to accept these new products, and at the same time, maybe, you know, the whole ecosystem that is driving this.

Mehmet: So if you, I would love you to explain this. I know you have the knowledge, Alan, about that because the goal also is, uh, make sure we represent, let's say the region in the best way we can, you and me. So if, if you can like, give us like this holistic, uh, view about the FinTech, uh, and the, you know, the whole industry in MENA region.

Allan: Absolutely. I think every company will become a FinTech company. So aside from the growth, aside from all the percentage we're already seeing it. And in the West, where Amazon, Shopify, [00:07:00] every company that gets big enough needs to have a FinTech component to it. And this goes in parallel with the trend of people.

Allan: People are a lot more comfortable. Getting financial services on non-financial platforms. So if you trust the brand, if you're on amazon.com and you trust it, you're okay to use their credit card or their points or their insurance or any kind of, uh, product from them. Uh, so I think this trend is continuing whether you're in, you know, tourism or automobiles or any other, uh, other tech.

Allan: Eventually you will touch on the FinTech space, and that's why I think it's always from the highest funded, uh, startups in developing markets, and it will continue to do so. I think we're still like years away from saturation. I could be wrong, but I'm, I'm, I'm betting on it. And in terms of the region, I think.

Allan: A few things make this, uh, much more exciting place. Like I had. I worked in Canada and the [00:08:00] US in fact, I studied in Canada, worked there. All my professional career was there and I had the chance to, to do a startup, but twice when I wanted to do startups and the tourism, and now I came back here, first time was Dubai and the second time was Riyadh.

Allan: The opportunity is much higher here, in my opinion. Uh, one thing that comes to mind is the phone penetration that's higher than a hundred percent IE There's more than one, one per person. Uh, people are very tech savvy and they're increasingly wanting the financial services to come to them. So we no longer are satisfied with just digitization, like having your bank in an app.

Allan: We want the banking services to come in our regular user journey, what's known as embedded finance. And we think this trend can be seen, you know, if you look deeper, if it's done well, you don't notice it. Like when you're buying a flight ticket and you have to add on the insurance at the last step, this is embedded insurance.

Allan: But if [00:09:00] done well, you don't notice it. You feel like it's part of the journey. The trend we're seeing across, uh, all geographies, and we feel like the Middle East is, you know, ripe, ripe for, for that kind of, uh, tech advancements. 

Mehmet: Great. So Alan, your answer triggered multiple questions in my mind, which were, I wa I wasn't prepared to ask, but it's good.

Mehmet: So, but let me start with the one that I prepared. So if I want to go with. You mentioned about the journey, right? So how. You can compare what you're trying to do now with your current startup from customer journey perspective, in contrast to the status quo. Right? So today, and I think this is something across the region, you know, for, for finding finance for your car.

Mehmet: Yeah, I know what you have to pass, but I, I, we keep the answer for you. So if you take me through this journey, the [00:10:00] status quo versus what you are offering 

Allan: for sure. So the way it's done right now, it's can be summarized as, you know, a minor nightmare. It's not, it's not fun. Nobody looks forward it forward to it.

Allan: Even car lovers, they don't like the financing part, but basically, and, uh, Saudi Arabia, it, 92% of car loans or car sales take seven or more business days to close. Uh, it's a bit better, but. It's a very manual process. You go, you pick the car, and then you need to deal with the, you know, the financing. And it's generally frustrating because you don't have one clear place to go and just, you know, upload all your documents and get the answer you need to play this game of, will I get approved here?

Allan: How are the rates there? Do I need to share some PDFs on WhatsApp? Do I need to email it? Just. I wouldn't say a broken process, but it's not [00:11:00] fun and it takes a while. These inefficiencies can be seen across the value chain from, and they impact car sales. They impact the customer, they impact the lenders themselves, so everyone has room to gain by improving this.

Allan: So this is how it looks like right now, seven to 10 business days, frustrating. It's not transparent. Uh, and a lot of it is manual work. You need to interact with an insurance, uh, a banking broker or a, a lending specialist, and you might need to go physically into different banks, give them your stamp salary certificate and things like that.

Allan: What we envision is making that process less than 90 minutes, and we think. You know, people have accepted the way things are, but it doesn't need to be this way. In the last five years, we got so many advancements, like the open banking, infra infrastructure, uh, like banking as a [00:12:00] service, like the ability for people to, to consent to have their banking information shared.

Allan: Um, so these technologies are what we're counting on to be able to streamline the process from A to Z from seven days to 90 minutes. I wish, uh, if maybe some other time I can show you the demo, but, uh, in the next few weeks we'll post it online and you can actually try it for yourself. Um, and I think, you know, especially in Saudi, the moment you ask, how was your last car buying experience, their face was the best.

Allan: Market validation for the problem we've ever seen. Like the moment. Even you, you're not in Saudi and I think you can tell us a little bit about your experience. Uh, I would love to hear it. 

Mehmet: Yeah, definitely. And uh, there's nothing that comes, as I say, music to my ears, like something that saves my time, less frustration.

Mehmet: Smooth process. [00:13:00] It's, it's music to my ears. You mentioned something few moments ago, which. I don't know if it's coincidence or, or maybe we have like same, we are same mind. I'm, I'm sure we are. Same minded people. You mentioned that every company has to become a FinTech company, so at some stage we were saying like every company has to become software company, if you remember.

Mehmet: And then now you're saying FinTech company and also AI company. Right, Alan? So now tell me or walk me through. How are you currently utilizing AI and how do you envision, you know, the s merge of AI plus FinTech would have effect both on, you know, what you are offering today and in the general term of, of FinTech?

Allan: Absolutely. So we don't think of AI as a feature. We think of it as a fundamental technology and. It's like having a [00:14:00] website in the year 2000. It was something special. It was, wow, you have a website Now. If you don't have a website, you're just behind. Same with AI and the, and, and let's say in the next five years, if you're not integrating the technology available to you with AI in your processes, your business is gonna suffer.

Allan: Your effectiveness will suffer your, your, uh, you know, head count need will increase. And so what I'm trying to say is we don't try to use AI to solve a problem. We start with the problem and then see what's the best technology to solve it. So we're problem centric rather than technology centric. But then you realize that AI is a really damn good technology because you can use it for credit analysis.

Allan: So it helps make the credit analysis better. It helps us match the right lenders to the right applicants because not all banks will fund everyone and not everyone should apply to all banks. [00:15:00] Um, we use it in a few other ways also to streamline operations internally. But this is how I think of it. You know, you, and same thing you said, that every company has to become a software company.

Allan: I think that's very true. And in 20, 30 years, we're gonna say every company, you know, has to be able to, I don't know. You know, deal with AgTech, ais on a mass scale, and I think it's a regular evolution of technology. You know, you have to use what's out there or you won't be competitive. 

Mehmet: Right. One question also, which is I think will be beneficial for people who might be having maybe some question marks now, any vertical or any.

Mehmet: Specialization like FinTech, health tech, you know, you have some regulations, you have some extra, uh, measurements that you need to be following. Uh, but let's talk about the regulations more. Like how easy or [00:16:00] complex is it currently in, you think in our region for starting, you know, aa, FinTech company? And I'm asking you this question, uh, to kind of, uh.

Mehmet: Bust some methods, I would say, right? So, uh, of course there are like two parts. You need to make sure that also you are safeguarding your customer's data and so on and so forth. But when it comes to taking a license and, you know, uh, getting your, uh. Puts on the ground and being able to start and, you know, getting customers how complex, how easy it is.

Mehmet: How have you seen it also, uh, moving, especially after, you know, where AI became part of it also as well and you know, people want to have things moving much faster? 

Allan: No, great question. I think. In the FinTech space, you definitely need, uh, more awareness of the regulation than say like a consumer facing or a direct to customer brand.[00:17:00] 

Allan: But it's not rocket science. We're lucky to be living in an era where, you know, the regulation is published clearly. It's constantly being updated. I think, you know, credit goes to, uh. You know, the authorities or SAMA in Saudi's case, be very proactive in publishing those regulations and what we've done, what we've done, we've had questions about it too, right from the start, right from when we were, uh, working on the business model.

Allan: What we did, this three things. Number one is we went through all the regulations on the websites, downloaded them. Uh, hosted them on our own, you know, little ai and we're able to conversationally check with certain points because, you know, sometimes it's pages and pages and pages, and it's better to just leverage some tech in that.

Allan: That being said wasn't enough to answer all the questions. We still, because we're working on the edge cases, uh, so we reached out to the authorities, we reached out to them, and, uh, it was pretty quick. I think within a few [00:18:00] weeks we were able to actually get on the phone. We did that twice and were able to clear all our questions with them, understand exactly.

Allan: Where the parameters are. So we can design and include that in our software design so we're not handling, for example, the pieces of data that we're not supposed to, or we create our architecture in a way that makes it easy. So my advice to anyone working on FinTech or thinking about it, uh, it only takes you a few hours to go through all the regulation out there, or, you know, download it, put it on, uh, you know, any safe AI that's not public.

Allan: And check if your use case is governed by any specific things and take that into account from the start because it's really hard to change things around. Once you're running and you have customers and you have revenues and it, you need to revamp your whole system. Uh, so that's my advice. And if you still think it's, uh, complicated, reach out to them.

Allan: You know, they're available on [00:19:00] LinkedIn via email, and they're responsive, which is something amazing. 

Mehmet: Right. You mentioned something about open banking and, uh, I've seen the space going really fast, at least in this part of the world, which to my surprise wasn't, you know, as fast as you would expect, especially for example, in Europe and other parts of the world.

Mehmet: So I believe open banking is moving. At a fast pace. And for FinTech companies like yours, Alan, I think this is a crucial, because I mean, you would be able to get the data much faster. You would be able to integrate, you know, with, with different banking systems at the same time. Now my question is, uh, why do you think that, uh, open banking we know is, is also something which is.

Mehmet: Kind of, [00:20:00] you can't skip in the future. And I'm asking you this question because I get it sometime when I try to explain to people about, you know, the integrations that you can do with open banking and the opportunities that opens for you. Some people get stuck a little bit, you know, like they say, okay, what, so what?

Mehmet: Like, you know, so answer, ask this. Like, so what about the open banking? Uh, why, why it's crucial. 

Allan: Great question. I. I think it's, uh, like fundamentally, my, the way I think of open banking is that you own your own data. So what does that mean? Previously, the bank had access to all your data and only you know, they can u fully utilize it.

Allan: But the ownership transfer to you, which means you can use your data in anywhere you want. You can use it to apply to a car loan, you can use it to optimize your expenses. You can use it for retirement planning. Uh, so I think what's, what's magical [00:21:00] or what open banking unlocks is the ability to fully utilize.

Allan: Your financial information, which was previously not easily possible. Of course you can request everything from the bank and download it and try to analyze it, but now you can leverage other tech. Okay? There's a company that does budget analysis, consent. They take, they take all your data safely, analyze it, give you the results.

Allan: Uh, so I think in terms of why it's a big deal. Unlocks like a whole new world of, of things that you can do. I mean, this is, auto loans is just a small part of it. Like, and we're not, we haven't even gotten close to the peak. There's gonna be crazy things that come out of this that, that may be hard to visualize or talk about now.

Allan: Otherwise, we'd be doing it. 

Mehmet: Yeah, indeed. Of course I can. For me now, the sky is the limit, honestly, with anything, [00:22:00] you know, right. With the age of ai, and uh, of course, and I highlight this, uh, our ability to be more creative. Why? Because, you know. Finally, we reach a stage where we can give the repetitive tasks, the boring tasks to the machine, and then we can go and try to think, okay, how we can make these things better, how we can be creative in this domain.

Mehmet: So. To your point, and I a hundred percent agree that, you know, the future is, is very, very bright to us. Now, one, one question, which is not related much to the FinTech as much is related to something, you know, when I was preparing for, uh, for this, uh, episode today about the way you operate Alan, yourself, so in your previous startup, like.

Mehmet: You did it without funding, no mentorship, no previous experience. Uh, and now, you know, I'm not sure how, how different is it [00:23:00] currently, but what do you think are the biggest lessons you have learned by bootstrapping? I cannot let you answer and then I will tell you why I'm asking this question later. So, because I want to take your opinion, let's say about something so.

Mehmet: Walk me through like this experience of being somewhere where you've never been before. No support financially from investors, and you don't have someone to tell you, Hey, you're doing the right thing, you're doing the wrong thing. Like, how is it psychologically I would say.

Allan: It is, it's a lot scarier talking about it than it is when you're doing it. Like I was, I was 25, 26, nobody can tell me what to do. I don't need anyone to tell me what to do. I went by what I call a land logic, which is sometimes completely stupid, but sometimes it works. Uh, so the advantage of it, [00:24:00] because there's a lot of disadvantages that are obvious, the advantage is.

Allan: You can literally do whatever you want and you guarantee two things. Either you earn or you learn. So if I don't make money, I learn something amazing. And that's how it became a sports tourism company, because there aren't any, if you check, even now, I think it's an underappreciated or underutilized segment because everyone loves sport in the Middle East, Dubai, Riyadh, everyone loves going and watching, but why aren't there tourism companies that specialize in that?

Allan: This was my logic back then. I'm like, I wanna go watch the World Cup. I checked and, you know, there's a regular travel agency, but they don't know how to do the tickets. They don't know which, you know, the, the nuances of attending World Cup is different than booking a vacation. And I'm like, okay, let me just make a poster and try to sell it and see if people.

Allan: Are interested and they did. So this kind of thing I don't think will fly with an investor. It'll be like, okay, where's the business model? Where's the go-to market [00:25:00] strategy? Which segment are you targeting? What's your ideal customer profile? And that has its value. Definitely. I think this is the way to get to a hundred million dollars business.

Allan: Uh, but I think everyone should try starting their own thing because you know, there is no right and wrong. The market tells you if you make money, you are right. If you didn't, maybe you weren't. I. Um, so yeah, it's scary if I think about it now, but in the moment I was having a blast. I was like, uh, even in school selling a Pokemon card for one, I would be excited and go tell my mom about it.

Allan: So imagine me making, I think at the peak was like a hundred thousand dollars a month. Revenues, not profits. It was amazing. Something I envisioned and then people buy it. Like I still find that pretty cool. 

Mehmet: Nice. Now on, on the bootstrapping part and, you know, not seeking some investments, uh, is this the route yet from your experience, you advise founders to [00:26:00] take?

Mehmet: Because some of the founders, especially I think the first time, once, you know, they would go out and, and I can't blame them. I'm not saying this to say they are doing something wrong, but I'm taking an opinion of, uh. Second time founder. I would say, Alan, with you, um, the route today for success, and I know sometimes if you need to scale things because some people I see this, uh, you know, debate on link it in sometime all the time.

Mehmet: No, you should go bootstrapping all the way. No, you have to go and seek some investment. Maybe from Angels first and maybe VCs later, but in your opinion, and now you're doing it the second time, what do you think is the balance here?

Allan: So 95% of businesses don't have any funding. 95% of businesses is everything we see around us. You know, the brick and mortar stores, small shops and all that. So most business by default, [00:27:00] where most of the time you just need to create value and charge a little bit, uh, more than it. So you have a margin. Um, the whole getting funding game.

Allan: It's, I think, a different game. It's a game where you're not just trying to create a business, you're trying to get a billion dollar business. And it's very hard doing that without having strong backing, whether it's investors, advisors, co-founders, uh, deep expertise. So I think there are two different games and it's important to know which game you're playing and there's no right or wrong answer.

Allan: And you know, my first startup, I played the first game. And now I'm playing the second game. But it's dangerous mixing up too. If you're, you know, aiming to have a good salary and you know, a well balanced life and you're satisfied with being you, you know, the only person in the business, then you shouldn't play the second game because that's not the game.[00:28:00] 

Allan: So I think the first step is to know which game you're playing. And if you're playing the second game and you wanna make a billion dollar company. You're gonna realize when you do your planning, when you try to go to market, when you run the map and realize, okay, I actually need some capital, and to actually go and get the capital, you need to prove your bo your model.

Allan: You need to do a proof of concept, or you need to get some initial traction. So my advice to anyone doing it is whatever opportunities are around you, try to take those. If you already have a full-time job, you're not gonna be able to play the VC funding game. But you can start something on the side, or you can fund a small business on the side and, you know, grow with it.

Allan: Um, yeah, I hope that answers the question. I kind of forgot what the question was. 

Mehmet: No, no. You, you, you a hundred percent answered the question, Alan, and, uh, what, 

Allan: what's your take on it? 

Mehmet: Okay. Uh, it's not like, because you are my guest today. I agree with [00:29:00] you, and I turn that to. Your goals, ambitions, and your passion in this life, right?

Mehmet: Mm-hmm. So the first model you talked about, and again, to your point, and I agree a hundred percent, there is no right or wrong answer here. What people nowadays, they call it the lifestyle business, right? Mm-hmm. So maybe it's like you have a company, uh. You offer something people on a SaaS model or you know, service model or whatever, and you have this revenue coming all the time and you're happy with it, right?

Mehmet: Because it doesn't only cover your, uh, day-to-day life course, but also like it leaves you with, uh, a possibility to be living, you know, a nice life, I would say. And you say, okay, if I'm doing, let's say 2 million. I'm very happy [00:30:00] with this. Nothing that's amazing right now. The other, but after meeting a lot of founders, and I'm lucky enough, some of them, they were on, on this show.

Mehmet: I. I discovered, like it turns out it's something I'm not sure, like something which comes from their personality, it comes from the experiences that they had in their lives, maybe during their childhood, I don't know, maybe some major events happen. So they start to have this idea, and believe me, and I'm saying this to the audience also, it's not because they want the billion dollar.

Mehmet: It's not because they want ring a bell on one of the stock exchanges. These guys, they became motivated. They, they're like different kind, right? So they want to be part of something big. They want to leave legacy, let's call it. They want to change lives. So this is why I tell people there's nothing wrong of [00:31:00] choosing the first one to your point.

Mehmet: And there's nothing wrong of choosing the second one, but the second one is much harder. Let me tell you this. Um. And I've seen the people who do the second one, they have a lot of scars and they keep getting these scars all the way. Um, but again, I noticed something you said now, Alan, which is very, very right.

Mehmet: Some people mix things up and they start to jump from here to there and there to here, and then you, you see them like little bit kind of lost and even affects their personality. And I tell people, okay, sometimes you need to pose a little bit. Take a deep breath. Like, just ask yourself why I'm doing what I do.

Mehmet: Right? So why I start this business or why I want to do this business. Is it to have a good life for me and my family and loved ones? Or is it like, yes, that plus a bigger goal, bigger ambition. So I can't agree more with you, Alan, on, on this. And you know, there's something you answered like also in the previous question I needed to re-highlight it [00:32:00] is.

Mehmet: You, you, you, you, you said you learn, you earn or you learn, right? So this is what you said. Mm-hmm. Right? So exactly. This is because I always, people ask me, okay, how do you see your failures? I say, I don't have failure word in my dictionary. I have only, you know, success. Learning because if I do something, it doesn't work.

Mehmet: That doesn't mean I failed, right? It's just I tried something that looks, it turned out that it's not, uh, the best way to do things. But, and this is why I tell people about pivoting, changing. It's normal. Like it's part of, uh, of the life now. You, you, just out of curiosity also, Alan, uh, you've been into Antler program, right?

Mehmet: And it's one of the biggest global accelerators. So how was the experience like and you know, uh, do you advise people to go [00:33:00] through it?

Allan: It was amazing. I've never. Lived and you know, and work 24 7 with builders, people who wanna build shit. And you know, people who have bigger ambitions than me, usually I have, you know, I've had this issue or situation where I always try to start businesses with the people I trust because they're around me.

Allan: We know them. And I do think business needs to be built on trust. But, oh my God. Being surrounded by builders is so much fun. Like you don't, it doesn't feel like work. You go, you do the work, right? But then you're discussing this new business model, then you're learning this new AI tool and all of them, you know, by definition, if you're trying to start a billion dollar company, by definition it's gonna be something either new or sophisticated or mind.[00:34:00] 

Allan: Expanding. It's different. You wanna, okay, lifestyle business is amazing, but you can replicate one of the 20 existing proven models, e-commerce store, SaaS model, you know, whatever it is. But being around people who, you know, when they told me what they wanted to do, I was like, are you sure you want to do that?

Allan: That's a bit crazy. That was a really nice feeling. 'cause I, I'm usually the crazy one. So I loved being surrounded by those people. And again, going back to game A or game B, if you're playing the lifestyle, small business game, I love it. All the power to you don't go to Antler. It's not that game. That's a different game.

Allan: Uh, read up on it. If you're playing Game B, which is a billion dollar business and you want some of the best investors out there backing you with some of the best people, you know, by the time you get to this program and you start, you're sitting with, in my case it was. 70 people out of [00:35:00] 8,000 applicants that applied from all over the world and halfway through the program, I told my wife, even if the program ends today and I don't get any investment, just the people, just my roommates, my two roommates that I lived with, they were worth, you know, uh, uh, the benefit.

Allan: Like I feel like I got my money's worth. Um, so I definitely recommend people get familiar with it. Because you will hear about it. Whether your friend is gonna go or a company is gonna come from it, get familiar. And if you're thinking about getting funding and meeting these kind of people, even if you haven't found it, try to get into it.

Allan: Highly recommend ab. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. And this is also the feedback I heard from some people who also were accepted either here locally, I mean, because Antler they started to operate, uh, in our region, in MENA region. And also the people who enrolled in their program in Singapore and other part of the world.

Mehmet: So actually, you know, the same, they use the same phrase like just meeting these [00:36:00] people there. Like it's, it's, it's worth. Uh, and it reminds me, you know, because sometime people ask me, okay, was it, what is it for you in, uh, running this podcast? It's not your, it's not a business. It's not your meeting. I said, guys, meeting awesome people like the ones that I meet, you can put a pro price tag next to it, right?

Mehmet: Like, uh, you make like, uh, uh, long life friends, you see. The best minds in, in, uh, in, in, uh, you know, the region and, you know, in what they are doing. So, absolutely, I can really relate. Although like I've never been an accelerator program, but I can a hundred percent relate. I. Uh, to, to what you're saying, Alan, um, Alan, if I want, you know, because as we are like closing or like coming to an end, but before I let you go, I would say I still have a couple of things to, to ask you.

Mehmet: Uh,

Mehmet: [00:37:00] entrepreneurship in our region. Uh, do you think we are going any soon? Reach a phase where we can say, Hey, we are not only. Building for the region, we are actually going to build something that goes global. The reason I'm asking you this, and you've been in Canada and you know you've been to the US also.

Mehmet: Um, one thing that we keep discussing, we are so excited about and I had just a meeting today with someone, we're discussing this so. We see the talents people, smart people like yourself, a lot of other people and you know, builders to your point. Uh, but we see the thing stops with the region and we don't see them trying to go global.

Mehmet: And this is kind of, you know, having this question [00:38:00] mark with all what is happening around us. When we are gonna see the media region on really the global map of not only, yes, we have money because of all the support coming from the government, but also becoming really a rival to the other big spots in the world.

Mehmet: So, and one of, you know, being yourself, one of the entrepreneurs that is building currently with your, uh, with your co-founder and you know, your team, tell us, give us some hope when we might see something like this.

Allan: I don't know. 'cause I think we're getting there and I think the region is. So vast that, you know, we have more people in the Middle East than the us for example, if my math is right, US is about three 30 and I think we're close to half a billion if you, especially if you include Pakistan, India areas. So I think [00:39:00] building like something like uh, Ketopia or Korean that's expanded to the Middle East area.

Allan: So already at the scale. That some of the big companies have. Of course, we're not quite there yet, competing with them. But I think it's just a matter of time, I think, and I'm hopeful, uh, we're gonna witness it in the next few years. Um, but I really don't have very strong, you know, like personally the startup we're building.

Allan: I'm completely satisfied if we're able to. Operate in the Middle East and the surrounding regions, and we never go to North America. It's still gonna be a billion dollar business. Uh, 

Mehmet: yeah. True. 

Allan: Yeah. 

Mehmet: Yeah. Absolutely. Uh, a is there anything which you wished I had asked you and I didn't like? So this is the space I give my guests, like if they want to share anything, any, I don't know, uh, final.[00:40:00] 

Mehmet: Final wisdom, words I would say, like, uh, anything like you want to share. And of course, what I ask my guests at end is to tell us where we can get in touch and find more about what you're doing. 

Allan: Of course, I wanna ask about your favorite fruit. I'm always curious to know which fruits you like 

Mehmet: me, apple.

Mehmet: Why? I don't know. Since 

Allan: childhood, 

Mehmet: there's no reason. 

Allan: Okay. This is, I think it's the first time I get an apple. Interesting. Okay. Mine is mango and a lot of people answer mango. Uh, but yeah. Thank you. No, uh, this has been fantastic. Thank you for, uh, doing your homework, preparing. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and share the stage and also talk to your audience.

Allan: Um, in terms of wisdom, I have none to share, but I'm happy to advise if anyone has any questions. If you're watching this and [00:41:00] you hear something I said that you wanna find out more, or you think I'm wrong, find me on LinkedIn and on our bus and let me know because I'd love to improve and, uh, yeah, I'm sure my link will be in the bio.

Allan: Good luck to everyone out there and fail more. I know m doesn't like to call it failure, but I've just like go and try to fail more because sometimes yeah, you'll, you'll fail at failing and. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Of course. We have to still use the word fail. Like, okay. I'm not that strict, but yeah, definitely.

Mehmet: Um, fail fast, fail more. Also, I would say, um, so this is, this is they, they might say, Hey, yeah, like you're copying some Silicon Valley term. Yeah. But it turns out like this is what made the Silicon Valley great. Right? So, because I think one of the things we. We need to accept, which we were not very great, but we start to get great as is always to [00:42:00] shame talk in the back when someone tried to do something and they fail, but actually we should first be beside them second.

Mehmet: Try to let them also understand that, hey, this is not really failure. This is just learning. To your point, Alan, and Yeah, and thank you for, for sharing your, your, uh, your experience and your, uh, uh, ambitions also to, to build this great business that you are doing, Alan, and I'm always, and I think I told you this before, when we met the first time, I'm always, you know, like my, my heart become like very, you know, it's like pump very fast.

Mehmet: Why? Because we have someone in the region. Talented. Knows what they want to achieve like yourself. This makes me excited. Like it, it's, it get hope, I would say, uh, to us. So thank you very much, you know, for all what you're doing, and thank you for being here with me today. And yes, you are right. Like people will find Alan, uh, [00:43:00] link it in link in the show notes if you're listening on your favorite podcasting app.

Mehmet: And if you are watching on YouTube, of course you will find it on, uh, YouTube's description. And this is how usually I end my episodes. So guys, if you just discovered this podcast by luck, thank you very much. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, so please share it with your friends and colleagues and if you are one of the people who keeps coming again and again, the loyal fans, thank you very much for you because all of your support, because all what you do in the background that I don't know how you do it, guys, we are managing for the first time since two years, to get the top 200 Apple Podcast charts in multiple countries, which it's a first.

Mehmet: So Jan was good. Feb was good and I'm sure like also March is is gonna be good. And April also as well. And also because of the support and you know, the loyalty that you showed, uh, the CTO show with Mead is considered as the top 40 must listen business [00:44:00] podcast in Dubai, which is also some a hundred that I have.

Mehmet: And thank you very much for being so loyal. And please, please, please. If you need me to enhance anything, something you don't like, something you like, I would love to hear about it. So thank you very much for tuning in and we'll meet again very soon. Thank you. Bye-bye.