#460 Radical Reconnection: Sam Rad on Thriving in a Post-Human World

Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CT O Show with Mehmet today. I'm very pleased joining me, Sam Rad. Sam. She's a bestseller author. She's a futurist and much, much more. But the way I love to do it, as the audience knows by [00:01:00] now, I like to keep it to my guest, introduce themselves, tell us a bit more about their background, their journey, and where are you currently up to Sam.

So, and then we can take the conversation from there. So the floor is yours. 

Sam: Alright, thank you for having me. Mehmet. I mean, this is, um, oh, the introduction is kind of a, a long thing. I feel like I could talk for the whole time about this. So, hi, I am Sam Rad. I'm a futurist, not a name I gave myself. It was a name that over the years, or I suppose a title that I was quite early in a number of, um.

Emerging technologies and, and building or inventing some things and habitually like 10 to 15 years too early, not so great from the perspective of a founder, um, but great from the perspective of helping people to, to build towards the future. Uh, my background is a bit unique in terms of, um. You know, I have a mix, I guess, of left and right brain.

I was trained as an anthropologist, so basically a professional [00:02:00] people watcher, lots of lots of people skills, but also a self-taught engineer from, you know, the age of maybe, I wouldn't say four years old as an engineer, but I was working with computers quite young. So you know, when I was. Younger and undergrad.

So, you know, in my, my studies, I was studying people right as an anthropologist, but it was right at this time where, um, you know, the, the cusp of mobile phones and social networks, and I really wanted to study the impacts of technology on people, which at the time was like a crazy thing to do. It was not approved by any departments, nothing in graduate school, et cetera.

I did it anyway, so I was one of the first. Anthropologists to live fully in, uh, a virtual world called Second Life. This was in 2008 or 2009. Um, ended up starting a company around that time. Um, four companies later. You know, I was kind of still on, uh, very early in a number of things, uh, happened to be one of the [00:03:00] first people to robustly deep fake myself.

And not just in terms of what you're seeing here, like my voice and my likeness, but also, um. You know, my, my cognition. So, you know, I did that a little bit ahead of the curve, which was quite freaky. A bit uncanny. And, um, so, you know, I've, I've slowly over time, um, accumulated these experiences that, you know, I suppose for, for other people, this presentation or this title, which, you know, I'm kind of averse to the idea of titles, but you know, as a futurist being quite early, not just about thinking.

About the future, but actually having a background building, um, with emerging technologies as well as experimenting or, or kind of using myself as, um, an example to, to be on the cutting edge. So I'm really excited to be here. 

Mehmet: Great. Same here, Sam. And you know, like I call people like yourself, you know, maybe futurists, some people they take it in another sense, but I would [00:04:00] say forward looking.

Yeah. Uh, and people who can, you know, spot, you know, what's happening. And, you know, we can talk about a lot of things, but, um, of course I did like my research and I went through the work we've, we've been doing. But one theme attracted me honestly because, um. Even in my discussions with friends and people I meet all the time, um, there's something, which I know you call it also the age of acceleration.

Right. So now you just mentioned ai, you mentioned a couple of other emerging technologies and. We are kind of feeling that really the acceleration that we are seeing now. And always, you know, I'm, I'm kind of like, I, I have gray hair, right? So like I, I tell people, you know, I've seen multiple, I would say revolutions in tech and each one was like, had the wow effect.

Yeah. Like this is the next big thing. But now we [00:05:00] have this really acceleration with AI quantum, so, um. The question that comes to mind. And because you've, you've done some work over there, I'm gonna talk also about the book shortly. How do you think we can keep up without, you know, losing ourselves? I would say, 

Sam: oh my goodness.

Yeah. I mean, that, that's sort of what ended up being the topic of the book, right? Um, and like you, I, I have been through a handful of, of these trends and every time. You know, there, there is an emerging technology. The, the marketers right. Love to position it as like, this is the, the next thing it's gonna change the world.

And we went from like iot to blockchains, to metaverses, to whatever, you know, ai, generative ai, quantum computing. I think biotechnology is also, uh, a, a really big deal and, and even more, and. You know, I, I [00:06:00] myself was part of the people that would stand on stages for the, the past 10 years saying this is a, you know, a radical shift in what I call our social operating system.

So changing everything from even our inner awareness to our communities, to our organizations, to societies and beyond. And you know, I will say. First of all, I don't proclaim to be able to name an entire epoch. So, um, it's not like I set out to coin this age of acceleration. And actually there have been a few folks, na, namely Thomas Friedman, um, many years ago who kind of referred to something sort of similar as an age of accelerations, plural.

But really what I was getting at is that this, the, at this moment in time. Right. The convergence of technologies coming together, as you mentioned, ai, quantum computing, spatial computing, you know, vr, ar, robotics, biotechnology, I could list a thousand of them, um, will come together in ways that lead to an emergence [00:07:00] of, uh, second and third order effects that we could not foresee in the same way.

You know, I'll use an analogy of when we. Went from analog to digital and the internet revolution and um, you know, Google Maps. So Google opened up location data and then all of a sudden people are building on top of location-based services and we see like a trillion dollar economy unlocked of, you know, Uber and Airbnb and all these, these, you know, the sharing economy.

But when, let's say, um. You know, Henry Ford invented the Model T or created the Model T, the automobile in like 1903 or 1904. I don't think people were like, oh, we have an automobile. I'm going to foresee, we need infrastructure and we're gonna have roads and we're going to have, you know, charging plates in the roads for electric vehicles.

And then those vehicles are going to drive themselves with. Artificial intelligence and spatial computing, but we need [00:08:00] them to communicate. So we're going to create 5G networks, you know, through the air. So if you're right in, in 1900 people were like, this is not a horse. Wow. So we're at this moment again where, you know.

I guess a lot of people would expect someone like me or a futurist, a forward thinker, someone with strategic foresight or, or vision to be able to tell you what that a hundred years from now looks like from the automobile to self-driving, self-charging self, you know, autonomous vehicles. And to some extent I can, but you know, due to the nature and the power of these specific technologies.

So again, um. Artificial intelligence, machine learning, but combined with quantum computing, combined with all the things that are happening in terms of the emergence of perhaps new species, whether we're talking about bioengineering or we're talking about robotics, um, or uh, or other autonomous, um.[00:09:00] 

Entities, drones, automobiles, et cetera. There will be a emergence of things that I think we, we couldn't possibly foresee. So my job, right? And a lot of what I worked on in this book, which I changed the subtitle last minute, it was originally, uh, something related to the operating system of the future, what I've been saying for years or something about thriving in the age of acceleration, but I changed it to reclaiming your humanity in a post-human world.

Because the through line really was this question, right? How do we stay centered? How do we stay present? How do we stay adaptable? And to me it actually seems like less about technology and more about staying human in the face of all of these technological augmentations, which these what I call essential human skills.

Are things that we've become a bit disconnected from, whether we're talking about creativity and critical thinking, so left and right brain activities, or just [00:10:00] plain discernment of making sense of, um, our, our reality, whether it's our digital reality is, is what you're watching right now actually me, or is it my, my deep fake?

Um, I assure you it's not, this is a hundred percent certified. Authentic, Sam rad. But, um, you know, these questions of how do we stay human? Are some big ones, and it really is now a process of reconnecting to our center and then staying adaptable. You know, I've, I, I give speeches on stages around the world.

I've been doing this for about a decade and, and often the. Context for, which is, of course it's optimistic. It's how do we leverage and thrive through this change? But over the past couple of years, it's started to shift to, you know, there's a bit of hesitancy or, or fear, and there are questions coming up.

Like, what will this mean for my role, my job, or my entire company? Or my entire industry? Will it exist? And you [00:11:00] know, I'm not. A liar. Um, so, you know, I, I have this problem where I kind of, you know, um, will tell the truth and in some context the answer is no. Right? But that doesn't mean we will not have purpose, we will not have passion, we will not have things to do.

It means there will be an emergence of entirely new systems. But what makes this a, a bit destabilizing is that, you know, this would've been. Something that was big. If we talk about 2008, right? Where, where cracks in the financial system, we started to see, and so the idea of kind of creating an in initiative or people working towards greater efficiencies in finance, whether we're talking on on the cryptocurrency side or Bitcoin, the emergence of Bitcoin or decentralized finance or other tools.

Now that's a big endeavor in and of itself, but when I. Share with people, okay? It's not just finance. It became everything right? From medicine [00:12:00] to healthcare, to education, to knowledge, to media. Um, you know, you can look at that as like, oh my goodness, everything is, is crumbling. Or you could look at it like, this is a really incredible opportunity in human history to.

Build again, not rebuild from the ground up, but really apply first principles to, to pretty much every social operating system that we have. And, um, you know, think like an innovator, think like an entrepreneur, think like a technologist. 

Mehmet: I'm like you, you're like, I feel like as, as if I'm talking to myself a little bit here for multiple reasons because.

On the last point, I, you know, usually what I used to do is I used to write an article at the end of the year, just, you know, I put my thoughts on what we saw, you know, last year and what I'm expecting. So this year I decide to record the video, and this is like, almost exactly the same. I said like what was happening currently, [00:13:00] um, with this acceleration.

And I love the world acceleration because it's better than, you know, rapid growth and, you know, rapid changes. It's, it's acceleration. Uh, and I said like. What I believe me included, we need to do is to, they used to tell us this in trainings years ago. Like, yeah, you need to unlearn and learn again. Mm-hmm.

So. The question is, which I always ask people now because I remember even when I started, not so long back with the podcast, the traditional question, you know, when, for example, let's say I have someone who's experienced in blockchain, I would ask him or her, hey, like, uh, what do you think are the trends in the coming 10 years or five years now?

I stopped asking this question honestly, because although like you're a futurist, but I mean, first we need to. I would say like, swallow what's happening around us. And this what brought, you know, [00:14:00] this, uh, this question now to, to me is, are we ready? I mean, um, for me as a technologist and being like in technology for almost all my career and even when I was kid, like, you know, I was like close to electronics and all the thing, but I never saw something that fast.

And. The reason why I love the word acceleration, because if you look for example, at the rate of adoption for the internet, or let's say smartphones or let's say, you know, all these texts that came in the previous decades, so it took like probably 3, 4, 5 years until we have this mass adoption AI today.

And of course we still didn't talk about like. Quantum, we didn't talk about like many other things, space tech. So Sam, what do you think as humans, you know, we need to do at this moment to, I'd say adopt this fast change. 

Sam: I call this learning to surf [00:15:00] honestly. Um, just because I joke around, I say it's the the rad wave, but it.

So if you were, I, I don't like surfing. I tried it once and I got pummeled. So it's, I think we can all relate to it. I, I don't know, I, I've done a lot of extreme things. I used to be a competitive skydiver, but when it comes to the ocean, I was like, I don't know, I'm going to drown. But it kind of feels like this experience where we're like, you're in the water and there's this gigantic wave coming towards you, and you don't really have a choice.

I mean, you can go under it. But if you're gonna fight the wave, you're going, going to get pummeled. So it's more this process of like the wave's coming. It's very big. I mean the wave's here, we're all on it and we're going to learn to, to surf it. And that requires, right, you don't get rigid when you surf.

You don't turn into like, you know, a wall for the wave to hit. You kind of relax and soften and flow and that is a [00:16:00] very different. Mindset, especially as a technologist, especially as a more left-brained global society. I'd say post-enlightenment and thinking and renaissance, you know, scientific re revolution.

We started moving way towards logic. Um, and I talk a bit about this in, in the book. It's not to say in favor of the, the more kind of flowy, receptive, creative, right brain that we should kind of swing the pendulum. Totally on that other side, or those skills would've maybe been called soft skills as opposed to hard skills.

And they were a bit deprioritized 'cause they just didn't really fit into the operating system of the post-industrial revolution. But now that we've gotten to a point where, again, these technologies coming together are, I wouldn't say replacing the hard skills, but they're certainly augmenting them in ways where actually the way to keep up is not keep up at all.

[00:17:00] It's to, to ride that wave of change. And in order to do that, I think actually a lot of the right brain skills, um, are necessary for us to reconnect with. So it might not be the answer, you know, it's not like I, I have the five step process to, to be prepared for accelerating change. You know, I'm, I'm in it too.

And to be honest, you know, a story I'll sometimes share. So I mentioned like I habitually, um, you know, have been quite early and this didn't work so much in, in terms of the career of, um, some of my companies. They're still operating, but they were just certainly like 10, 10 years ahead. Um, probably more like innovation departments, but, you know, working with, with, um, tools and technologies or, or being privy to them before the.

I'd say like general public, for most of my career, I, I feel like I've processed or [00:18:00] experienced things or, and continue to do before, um, the mainstream will. So in 2020, which obviously coincides with um, a lot of other global happenings that we all re recall, probably not fondly, I, um, was the CEO or brought in to be the CEO of um.

A video communication platform that was working with a handful of technologies, uh, across generative ai. Anything from video to speech to text, uh, pretty much everything we're seeing starting to come out now, which is when I was tinkering, which is when I kind of robustly like had the finished product of this tenure process of, um.

Creating Sam Rad ai, which could be here right now, you know, um, in my place, like at that level of fidelity. And honestly, it, it freaked me out. You know, I had a bit of an existential crisis, and it wasn't because I was afraid of replacing myself. I, you know, that's one thing I [00:19:00] have done in my career and I would encourage people to do, is make yourself red redundant, you know, as a startup founder or any sort of thing.

You know, you wanna create a re resilient organization, but so many of us get caught up once the organization is larger. Or you're, say you're in corporate, right? And you, we tend to like, kind of wanna protect ourselves and, and, and not wanna make ourselves redundant. But, um, you know, I've kind of gotten very comfortable with doing that.

So even so, I make this, this replica and I say, oh my goodness, like. I speak for a living at this point. I write books. I write books because I love to write and it's my creative practice. But I also write books as part of my living. I, um, you know, join podcasts. I host podcasts. I'm on video, I'm on stages.

And to create something or someone that could do that on my behalf at first was, um, you know, it was like seeing yourself in a mirror. In a mirror I [00:20:00] didn't wanna see. And it was a bit of like an ego shattering, ego death type thing. Um, I got rid of all my technology at that point in time. I was like, I'm done with, with this.

And over the course of, you know, a, a year or two, it, it came back where I felt the passion to be part of this, you know, this, this wave, and to work with people as we're navigating it because. Again, it's not, I'm not just someone who sees something or has like plotted five trends by asking chat GPT. What are the five trends happening in the future?

You know, everyone's a futurist now these days. They can be, it's more like from the emotional, psychological, um, very integrated human perspective of feelings. What does that feel like, that change, not just what logically is happening. Um, I've been there. I'm I'm right there as well, and. To be able to navigate that is very counterintuitive, but [00:21:00] it really is kind of shifting out of this mindset of, um, believing that we can simulate and strategize the infinite simulated possibilities of what could happen and then control that outcome.

'cause I don't really think that we would be able to do that. And when you throw in quantum computing. Of course could process all of those possible simulated outcomes, but it also could generate infinite possible new outcomes. So, you know, if we're sitting here and being like, I could see five years from now, I would be lying to you, but, um, I could see some things that are probably likely to happen.

Mehmet: Yeah. Which is makes sense. You know, like, yeah. I, I think, you know, um. I tell people, you know, when it comes especially to some of the philosophical aspects of, uh, you know, the tech, uh, evolution or acceleration as you call it, Sam. Um, so people are too much in the tech itself, so [00:22:00] I'm not sure if it's on purpose or because.

The majority of us, and I don't want to generalize, but I had even these discussions with very well known, I would say, practitioners in their domain who are using the technology now. And every time I see, you know, the next, you know, thing that they uncovered because they're using this technology. I asked a question and I asked myself also now, and I know that you have, uh, done it also in the book.

So. Are we going to be de attached from us being humans? And I know, like you call it, you know something about the post human world, so. And it's like, really? And some people they say, Hey, like you're kind of a acting like a philosopher here. It's not because for me, I gotta tell you my, my point of view and I would love to hear you.

[00:23:00] So for me, you know, all these advancements that we are seeing in technology as humans, we are not ready for it. But, uh, same as. It happened with the internet and later start to happen with the smartphones. The social media was the biggest, I would say. All of a sudden you put technology and you know, communication, let's say in hands of the masses.

And I think people till now, they don't know what actually they are doing. So they scroll, they post nonsense things, but now we reach with ai. And AI is not like something small, it's something really big. So are we detaching ourself from being humans? Are we becoming. Machines. So for me, I'm saying it like the way that, and funny enough, I was just telling, you know, my dad the other day, uh, I said like, I think we gotta go back and become farmers at some stage because, you know, this is what we used to do years ago.

So I would love to hear your, your point of view. That 

Sam: is, there's, it's such a loaded question, [00:24:00] right? Um. 

Mehmet: Sorry 

Sam: for that. No, it, it is, we have to be philosophical. I mean, there's so ma because if we don't ask these questions, we're not going to start asking questions that relate to, um, ethics or governance or ownership of the systems or how should we build them.

We just build, build, build. And you know, you mentioned blockchain. I was very early in that, in building infrastructure in that, um, which, which is now an industry, but let's just say when it was still just kind of like a. Newer tech and you know, everyone's like, we'll figure out governance and stuff later, or, or the network will handle it.

Um, the way that it's designed and, and I think punting these questions is a very dangerous, but, so on the transhumanism or posthuman question, I mean. I do put this in the book, and I say, when people ask if we've been, you know, will we be cyber nett enhanced? Will we have, you know, um, change our bodies to have mechanical or technological devices?

I [00:25:00] show them this. I don't, I think majority of, at least, I mean, I don't know the statistics of smartphones, uh, in the world as of 2025, but it is quite high. And I'd say where I am in the United States, it's a large majority and the percentage of the amount of time, you know, the younger generations that are spent on these devices over eight hours a day, um, we are already there.

And the design of these networks. You know, you joke that you don't think people know what they're doing. They don't, you know, they're designed for certain purposes, which is mainly extracting data from people for either advertisers or now for training purposes of, um, AI models or other things. And. You know, we've, we've all kind of opted in to being, um, cognitively hijacked, you know, our dopamine, we're talking about actual neuroscience and [00:26:00] human stuff of the way that this works.

You know, that process of kind of detachment already began. And then now, you know, we're, we're here, we're spending a lot of our time, um, in virtual environments. And the interfaces, which is a big change. It's not just talking about the technologies we've mentioned, but the interfaces that we use to engage with technology are getting closer to in or on the body.

So right now, of course, I've got a computer, I've got a camera, I've got a microphone, I've got headphones, right? I kind of have a very rudimentary, immersive experience into our little metaverse bubble here, but. As we put the earbuds or in ear monitors in which, you know, in New York City, I walk around and I don't think I've seen.

You know, people look at you if you are crazy, if I smile at them or like talk to them because they're in a different world, you know, and even go into the, the market or grocery [00:27:00] store with the, the headphones on and glasses on. So, as we, as these interfaces change, right, and we augment our vision, our hearing, um, we'll probably be communicating not through our mouths and, you know, through microphones in the earbuds, but you know, a number of companies, uh, whether it's Neuralink or Meta.

Trademarking concepts like telepathy and not, you know, telepathy in the metaphysical sense, but telepathy in terms of probably reading brainwaves and somehow translating those and, and sending them to the recipient party. You know, we're moving into kind of, I wouldn't say yeah, uncharted territory, but, but also it, it kind of dangerous.

Place where if we're not careful as individuals and we continue to just willingly opt into these cybernetic enhancements, we could lose the connection that we have to our fundamental humanity. Now the question is, is the fundamental [00:28:00] humanity necessary? What makes us human? What makes us conscious? What makes us, you know, all these very big existential questions.

We don't have the answers to these questions. Philosophers over time, right? I mean, I start the book with a chapter on consciousness, then identity, then perception, and we, we get wider and wider in scope. But the reason I started within, um, is what, you know, what. Is consciousness. What is real? What does it mean to be human?

Um, only then we can really start asking questions of are we still human when we change? You know, bioengineering has, has created 50 different subspecies. Um, are we still human? When some of us have opted into brain machine interfaces and don't speak out of our mouths anymore, are we still human when we've augmented ourselves to, uh, be different life forms that can.

Thrive on Mars or in a [00:29:00] environment, in space as opposed to on this planet. Um, those are very big questions and I'm not one to say we. Should or shouldn't be doing this, I do think that we should think about what we're doing. Um, and the risk with the, this acceleration, the age of acceleration is that it's, it's moving so quickly that I don't think any of us really have time to think about if we should or shouldn't.

And, um, I will say it just isn't an inevitability that these things are happening. I myself, so I mentioned to you that I, um, after my little existential realization as well, um. You know, did have that initial impulse to, you know, I kind of disappeared into the Amazon jungle doing actual anthropologist stuff, right?

Not studying technology. I was like, okay, it's time to actually study and, and meet, you know, preserved cultures and, and different things. And that was lovely. Um, I do believe that, you know. Integrating into the, the changing [00:30:00] society is important, but we will probably see a bifurcation, uh, sort of like the Luddites, you know, during the industrial revolution of people who are like, opposed to working with or using any of the tools.

People, you know, there is a resurgence of, um, off grid living or homeschooling or new systems. And then I think there will be like the, the urban environments that are. Absolutely technologically enhanced and on the cutting edge. Um, like probably, are you in Dubai? Yes. I don't even know where you, okay. So, you know, like kind of more in, in line with a place like where you live, which, you know, has, is a relatively new city in, in the scheme of, um.

Human history or places like Singapore or even the cities that have not been built yet that are, are being planned. And you know, there will be like those, which will be, you know, the future. And then I think there are people who [00:31:00] will want to reconnect or regenerate land or move back into things like farming.

The question is, will it still be possible? You know, will the systems allow, uh, for that will, you know. Will we be able to do it? I don't know, but 

Mehmet: time will show us. Of course you cannot predict. Yeah. But because you know, the reason I stop a lot and I discussed it a lot, um, on the podcast and outside of the podcast, um, humans tend sometime to, you know, when there's a big change.

So they play on the fears, right? Mm-hmm. So the fears that people can start to. Accumulate because of big changes now, in my opinion. And uh, although like I'm an engineer by trade, but I was too much into history back in the days and still till now. So one of the things that I tried to find kind of a [00:32:00] relation is.

Between acceleration again in in technology or like events and for example, emergence of new empires, emergence of new trend within humanity. But I don't think I was able to find something which is similar to what we are living today because to your point now. We are able almost to do anything, which if you just ask someone not so long back, I'm not saying a hundred years ago, probably, maybe 30 years ago, they would say, Hey, like, this is really not realistic.

Right. But what we are seeing today is completely different. Now, to the, to your point about, uh, you know. How we gonna act? What one, one of the things that Sam, I'm interested to hear, you know, the opinion of people about is also from economical aspects, right? So if, if the machine or [00:33:00] machines are able to perform almost all of our tasks that we do on daily basis, and I'm talking here about, you know, work and jobs and, you know, fulfilling almost things that.

You know, we are doing it for years, but now the machine can go and do it in fraction of the time. Um, some people they think, you know, we will be heading to kind of a, uh, what they call it, the unified income system, or universal income System. Some people they say no, like still people actually, like the big enterprise will kind of leverage this and, you know, slavery will come back again.

And, you know, we have like these two poles I would say. Because you, you followed this and you did like the other stuff, like the anthropology and all these things, and I'm sure in the book maybe, you know, you reflected on future of us, not only about what we are [00:34:00] capable to do, actually what we will be doing, like Right.

It's not like about like. Are we able to, let's say, go and live on Mars? Or are we going to be, what are we going to be doing in the future? This is, this is, I think the question and you know, is this so-called today jobs with still something in the future? 

Sam: No, I mean, all the jobs of today will certainly not exist.

They will exist differently. Just like the jobs of the Industrial Revolution are slowly being phased out. You know, I like, so for me at this point, it is there. I have been an entrepreneur my whole life. Um, so I never worked for anyone. I've always just created things and maybe I was a little head on that game of just understanding constant uncertainty.

Um. And now what I do like in terms of my life feels like the retirement career of a politician. [00:35:00] Honestly. It's like I like give speeches, like, and write books like write and it's weird and I, you know, I am honest with myself, if nothing lasts forever, um, you know, I don't know how long that, I mean, I think since the dawn of human history, people have wanted and needed storytelling.

But, you know, that's just me and my own re reflection for anyone listening to this. I think that entrepreneurship or innovation, or self-directed anything is a fundamental human right. I think it's like the lifeblood of many, um, countries or places or cities to, to be able to, to want to improve yourself or to build, take something that has not existed and to create.

I think that is a fundamental human like gift actually. Um, you know, if we're getting into more spiritual or something like this is, this is a very beautiful thing, creation. And I [00:36:00] think disintermediating that in some sort of process, let's say, like, I understand the, the economic implications and the fear that by addressing that fear, there could be this idea of perceived quick fix of let's give everyone a, um.

A universal basic income. I've not actually formed my thoughts so much on this, so I wouldn't hold me to these ideas in five years if they've evolved. But it, it, to me, that seems like a bandaid in a system that is a past system, right? So we've got this kind of current global order, current global economy, and the the quick fix would be, um, giving everyone what they need to continue participating and feeding.

Um. A past system. I don't know if the past system, these systems survive this shift. They certainly are evolving from a geopolitical perspective, you know, multipolar world, all this stuff. So, um, economy as well. I don't [00:37:00] know how that that plays out, but I do think that the solution needs to be more robust than simply.

Um. Or at least the long-term solution than saying, you know, here's money so you can still buy, you know, um, eat and Survive and then sit around twiddling your thumbs. Like what does that lead to? I think we need to feel inspired to say, well, um, I. What is, what are our purpose or passion? What are we going to do and continue to create and build?

So I would probably create a system that incentivizes the creation of new businesses, um, new investment into new businesses, new industries. I mean, it's not, look. Certain things from the past will not exist. But if we talk about all the cool things we can build for the future, there are infinite jobs.

First of all, in a transition job, everyone should go into cybersecurity today. That is at least one, one industry that has such a, um. [00:38:00] Lacking of talent that, you know, if you're looking, if you're a technologist and you're looking to re-skill or up-skill or unlearn, that is like hands down, um, getting into that or cognitive security.

But beyond that, you know, if we're saying, okay, we can build, you know, rebuild energy grids and get into nuclear power new, new thing. I mean there there's just like so much, right? So I would say, like you said, it's an unlearning. It's even an unlearning of what was a past career, you know, what did you do before?

Does it really matter? Is it the skills and the learning and the learning how to unlearn and learn, and being prepared for a future where we probably will all have so many different, um, jobs, careers, lifetimes in, in one lifetime. 

Mehmet: I think you call it in the book the deprogramming from all the operating systems.

Right? So, yeah. So which, which, which I, I like this [00:39:00] because, um, it's like, you know, back in the days we used to format computers and, you know, like install a new operating systems on them. So it's, it's like something very similar. But when it comes to spirituality, by the way, um, again, my feeling is. You know, we are not ready.

I mean, in a sense, not because we lack, um, we lack the will to be ready. But again, I put it on the acceleration ratio that we are seeing currently because again, I. Maybe I'm repeating myself. I go and compare. And usually this is what, um, you know, when you have the, um, mentality of an engineer, so you go and try to see like if there is a formula where you can relate things so you can calculate future value.

Yeah. Um, the thing is,

let's take AI again because it's the most, you know, uh, thing that everyone is, is, is hearing [00:40:00] about today. So now. Every, every day we have something new, like in the age of internet, maybe people needed to wait, I don't know, months, years until they see something was disrupted by internet. You know, as you said, analog business, going to digital and then, you know, the smartphone, it took some time until, you know, we start to make an app for everything.

But it, it was a journey. Now. We have more technology in my opinion, than the human brain is capable to see where I can fit these technologies in. I spoke to physicians, I spoke to uh, medical doctors. I spoke to a lot of people and they keep telling me, Hey, you know, like we have a lot of problems to solve, but the problem we are.

Having this, you know, massive new findings, new technologies that are coming out and we are not able now to focus. So back to the spirituality thing. I think we, even people, not all of the people, they are thinking about [00:41:00] it, but in your opinion, Sam, like. If I want to take it like a little bit spiritual, right?

Yeah. And you know, because always we speak and especially for an entrepreneur like yourself, you know it very well. And I tell like, people who want to go and take this path, I ask them always the same question. What's your purpose? What's your passion? Right? So now again, with this post-human era that you, we just discussed it, what would be the, the spirituality here?

Sam: So I also ask that question of people. It's a good way to learn a lot about them. Um, and that's actually the most important thing that all of us should be aligning to in the future. That's it. For me, it is a bit spiritual, um, or religious or whatever. I mean, I don't talk about that often, especially as a technologist.

It, it's not really something that, uh, I think for a long time was. Uh, would coincide with [00:42:00] rational thought. So, you know, you, I wouldn't be on stage talking about these things, but when I do say, kind of for me, understanding my purpose or passion, and those are two related, but some somehow unrelated concepts at the same time, there are a million things that I could be doing like any of us, but.

I spend a lot of time, um, I, I have a great gift in my life at the way that it's designed to have a lot of time in quiet introspection or meditation or thought or prayer, whatever you wanna call it. And, um, I listen a lot, whether it's inter and just it, whether it's signs in my body or signs in. Um, things that I can kind of see, feel aligned or misaligned or business partnerships you can kind of just know.

And that's part of, again, the human, these human skills. Um, so I've actually mentioning the book that you've read. I've just finished writing the next book after [00:43:00] that. 'cause I just kept going and it kind of got into these questions of reconnect. Like, how do you actually reconnect to your passion, your purpose, your authenticity?

And it's really, you know, it isn't simple, but it kind of is. It's not some secret knowledge. It's sort of, you know, reconnect with the body and the emotions. Psychology, your cognition, your intuition. Um, so again, it might not be a simple answer for people for me to say, here, here's five steps to find your passion and purpose.

I think that is sort of a much deeper personal, intimate question. People will have with themselves or their belief systems. Um, for me, you know, I've spent a lot of time in my life fighting my purpose. I like, no, no, no. I don't want it. I don't want it. You know, I'm quite a, um, introverted person and yet I end up on stages in front of thousands of people and I don't get ner, you know, it's clear from my [00:44:00] passion.

Like I can feel I'm meant to be doing it. 'cause I feel centered and alive, but it would not make logical sense to anyone who's ever met me or known me that my life played out this way. And it makes it clear that it's probably I'm where I need to be. But I was fighting it for so long. I definitely didn't wanna step into to some of these things.

So again, I, I think it. Uh, in this age of acceleration, right? And you're mentioning all the distractions. Those distractions, whether they're intentional or not, by the creators of such distractions. Um, they're, there's a lot, right? Even if we're talking about the 24 7 news cycle, and it's not just now 1 24 7 news cycle.

It's like ev every algorithmic. Social media and media metaverse of like, what is even really happening in the world? Um, I wouldn't say ignore it all 'cause we do have to work, you know, with the [00:45:00] technologies and tools. But it's, it's discernment. It's, it's understanding which ones when and how myself, you know, I of course have to be on the cutting edge.

I do work with all this stuff, but I also take like three month breaks, you know, and I haven't. Brought a lot of things into my workflow. It takes a long time for me to really integrate something and decide consciously if I want to and how to, to, um, leverage it in a way that's going to be beneficial. I'm, I'm kind of like the reluctant futurist or the Luddite futurist, you know, I'm, uh, a little bit more offline than people would expect, but, um, you know, the passion and the purpose will come to you through.

Stillness and silence. And yet we're in a world that is moving faster and faster each day, and it's louder and louder each day. So that's, that's the challenge of how to create that space. Um, even just for a breath, [00:46:00] you know, I'm not saying people quit your jobs and go take six months living in a cave. Um, not, not many of us can do these types of things, you know, but you, you can take.

A walk for five minutes in between a meeting, you can make a special time of your day or even in the shower to just, you know, bring it back inward or not have some sort of stimulation. Whether it's like, well, podcasts are great. Keep listening to podcasts that I, I'll plug for podcasts. But no, we do fill, you know, we have the tendency to fill time.

As I mentioned, walking on the streets of New York City or any major city, it's like people stop at the, before they cross waiting for the, the light and the first thing they do. You know that for two minutes I do it. I mean, I'm not, I I catch, I know I'm not, no finger pointing. It just, I, and I have my [00:47:00] headphones in.

I'm listening to music and the times where it's nothing. Just complete, you know, fasting basically like we need to fast. Um, fasting with food is also good. I mean, it's all will bring you closer to that. So I would encourage more of, more of that. 

Mehmet: Right. I, I think one of the, if you want to call it scale, you want to call it something else, doing filtering for, you know, not only distractions from phones or like from our.

Computers because, uh, I would, I, I don't like to call it noise, but it's becoming kind of noise from even people who are around you, like, you know, your colleagues, you, your family, because everyone is talking about, for example, a topic and all of a sudden you see yourself drag to go and, oh, let's, let me go and see what's happening.

Right. I think I, I am able to control myself [00:48:00] still to filter a lot of noise that comes. Because I know exactly. You know, for example, let's say I, I'm in tech, I'm, you know, in, in entrepreneurship, I'm in startups and, and so forth. Um, so, so I, I like as much as I can to. Keep the distraction away from me, although, like, it's not sometimes possible, but yeah.

So the, the techniques that you gave, and I like Sam, when you mentioned like, it's not like the five, five steps or like the, these five things you have to do because I'm telling people again, like these. Playbooks, whatever you want to call them, they're not applicable anymore all the time. So there, I like to call it best practices for yourself, customized for yourself.

So this is what, what kinda work in the future. I, I'm a big believer in this, uh, and things are changing very fast, but I want to come back to something which we started with. For you now, Sam, [00:49:00] what is radical? I know like you call the book Radical Shame, but what is radical for you? 

Sam: Well, radical reconnection is what I get to at the end, and it's, we, it's a shame.

We live in a world where we, the concept of reconnecting to ourselves. To each other, to, you know, nature, the, our environment to all beings and all these things to, you know, our belief systems. That that is a concept that would be considered, um, radical, but it requires that level of, you know. A catalyst to do it because we are becoming and have become so fundamentally disconnected.

So, you know, for me actually. Radical and that was just a play. Um, the next book actually is called Radiant Now, A Futurist Guide to Thriving in the Present. So you'll be the first to hear that title. We've got Radical Next and [00:50:00] Radiant Now. Nice. It's a bit of, yeah, I know. I just play on my name, which is Rad.

Um, so radical is really just a play on the name. Honestly. It was to, how do you say, like edgy future and, uh, it, you know, if we're thinking about. We've got these like crazy things happening in the future, but the most radical thing of all is being present in a world that is pulling us away from ourselves, right?

Whether we're disconnecting or too connected to, to all these distractions around us. Um, it is to find your passion and your purpose and to reconnect to your humanity. So, um, you know, it's, I'm excited for what's to come in, in this world. I am a. Insatiably curious person. And I think if many of us like can continue to tap into our childlike wonder and our curiosity that all of the things that are happening, whether it's technological change or it's other types of, of [00:51:00] changes in shifting in the world, um, it doesn't have to be so scary, right?

We can look at it and say, well, well this is kind of a very interesting. Um, exploration or journey, some of it will be messed up. I'm not gonna say it's all, I'm not like naive in the sense that it's all going to be fine. Some stuff will not be fine, but you will, you individually, anyone listening to this will be okay.

And to do that, really coming back to ourselves in our own internal voice, in our own center, in our own groundedness. As you mentioned, your passion, your purpose. That is not something anyone or any technology can take away or replace. Right. They never, you, you can't, as long as you preserve it. Because if you do become so distracted and we have all these voices and things on us, then you might, you actually might lose that.

And remember that you have a spark, you have a purpose, you do have a, a meaning [00:52:00] of being here, and we're kind of getting a little close to people forgetting that. So, um, as long as you, you keep that spark alive and there. The rest of us all together are helping each other to re remember that. I think everyone will be, um, not just Okay.

They'll, they'll thrive. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. And you know, like this is the best advice. Like if I would ask you like what you would tell, you know, the fellow builders, so this is the best advice you would give because I think we need. You know what? I liked Sam, about your way of thinking and you know, the way you put things and the way you have organized, not only the book, like even I've, I've seen like some of your speeches, so it, it's like you spark this optimism because I'm too much into optimism and I'm too much into encouraging people to ignore.

And I said, ignore the noise. Not necessarily all notifications. So sometimes we have these voices that keep. You know, scar people of what's happening. So it's, it's good. Like you [00:53:00] mentioned this now. I, I wish like we could continue and continue, but I'm conscious of time for, for you also, Sam, if we, if you want to leave the audience with like final thoughts and where they can get in touch and, you know, maybe, um, you know, follow for the next book also as well.

So please, you know, let us know. Yes, 

Sam: yes. Well, first of all, um, I'm Sam Rad again. Uh, Sam Rad, official across all the. Online social networks. Uh, my book is called Radical Next, reclaiming Your Humanity in a Post-Human World. And you can Google that. Google Me, it's on Amazon. Um, would love to hear your feedback and to stay in touch for the next book.

And as a final thought, I think I, I already left it, which is, um, you know, it's so important in this moment in time, uh, to reconnect to ourselves, to each other. To, um, you know, our internal belief systems, our [00:54:00] communities, our planet. So, you know, I think staying true to that course and being present and being authentic, um, and you'll thrive.

Mehmet: Absolutely. I'm big fan of the, of authenticity, Sam, also myself as well. And, you know, I think this is, um, a, a really. Thought provoking episode, at least for me. I enjoyed the discussion. Uh, for the audience, you don't need to go and Google anything. I gonna make the life easy. All the links will be in the show notes if you're listening on your favorite podcasting app.

And, uh, if you're watching on YouTube, you're gonna find it also in the description. So, Sam, I really, really, really thank you very much for, you know, sharing your. Experience sharing your thoughts with us. And I hope that someone who would listen, you know, would go back and think about their purpose, about like the opportunity, uh, or opportunities ahead of us.

So thank you very much for this. And [00:55:00] this is for the audience. This is how usually I end my episodes, so. If you just discovered this podcast and I'm happy that people are discovering it more than before. So thank you for passing by. I hope you enjoyed If you did, so please subscribe and share it with your friends and colleagues.

And if you are one of the people who are now like big community for me, like big supporters, thank you very much. I really appreciate all the support you give me. I appreciate all the feedbacks. The most thing that I'm appreciating nowadays that the first time, and I'm new to this podcasting thing, is after two years now we are entering the top 200 podcast charts on Apple Podcast in multiple countries simultaneously.

So this is something unseen, 2025 is very good for us. So thank you very much for your support and. The, you know, keep your questions, your suggestions coming. I read all of them. Thank you very much, and as I say, always stay tuned for in new episode very soon. Thank you. Bye-bye. [00:56:00]